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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: Francesco on July 02, 2007, 07:14:16 PM
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Why dont people shoot the push shot?
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I've heard everything from its easier to block and the pull is a more natural motion. I do have to say I've seen a push shot or two that were very impressive, but I've rarely seen it in competition. I havent been competing too long, but get a sense its that way.
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it is a harder shot to hit all of the options (straight, middle, long, dead-bar)... I personally think that it is easier to race as well. Alot of people that hit it, have a tell before they take off.
better off shooting a pull or a snake...
ANyone know who and when the last person to win a major title using a push shot???
Thomas Rios
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I will speak for myself...because it is harder to execute, and easier for the defender to race. Just my opinion!
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Rios has no idea what he is talking about LOL!!!! JK JK! No, Rios is completely correct....i dont know anyone that has a world title shooting that shot......(tony has a sick one) but he didnt win his title shooting it....
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There are no title holders that have used a standard set push shot in open at tour events that I know of. Chris Ficek did win Goalie War in North Carolina about 20 years ago at a Tornado Tour event using a push shot. He beat Todd who used a pull shot.
Oly
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For me, It's easier to shoot a Push straight, short push split/spray/brush when compared to the straight or short pull as you have a better view of the hole and more natural movement on this side of the hole. But the Long Push is a much harder & different shot than the long pull to control/master. Because the short game is much easier when shooting the push series, it allows you to not have to go as long and fast when shooting the long push, as you are able to keep the defense tighter. However because it requires you to open up the grip a little more to gain "follow through speed" to shoot a more square longer push, you can give away a few more tells and increase the risk of misexecution. Finally, since the Long Pull opens up the short pull game more "than the short Push opens up the long push game", it seems the pull is preferred over the push, as the Known ability for shooting the Long Pull is awesome for opening up shooting holes. my 2cents
it is a harder shot to hit all of the options (straight, middle, long, dead-bar
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ANyone know who and when the last person to win a major title using a push shot???
Steve "killer" Miller and Steve Murray 1986 National Champs
Miller had a good push shot
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I agree that it's easier to race, but I can actually hit a much faster/controlled push shot than I can a pull. For some reason, I have trouble straightening out my pull shot. However, as the one executing the shot, I can race the ball a lot better (and shoot it straighter) with a push shot. :)
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Mark Synder won a Tornado National Championship shooting a push. Killer Miller was playing goalie for Murray in '86. Tony Turner won a Texas and a Oklahoma State Championship shooting a push as well.
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Matt Keezer from Montreal, Canada has the best push that i have ever seen He won Rookie Doubles shooting it at Texas State. He beat Robert mares in Open Single at Texas State. Its just to bad he doesnt have a great 5 bar. cause his 3 bar shoots about 80% on perty much any defender that i have seen him play against. Its trully killer but its also the fact that no one ever gets to practice against it. He shoots it Open handed but its a really quick snap it looks close hand, kind of like Freds Euro pin.
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Actually I shoot a backpin push shot that is quite accurate Now!! I can hit it at dead bar as well. However I can tell you it takes many years to get it that way. Just setting it up and shooting though is very hard to shoot accurately and easy to block....not always... In my opinion it is because you can react to the push and see where it is going as opposed to the pull or any other shot for that matter.
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I personally have switched from a push to a snake. I think that my push was pretty versiatile. I can shoot it long, stright, cut back, middle. It worked for quite a while and still does occasionally. But if I try to shoot it for a whole tourny I get fatigued. Squaring it off gets hard to do. Oh, and a side note, Rios is just pissed cause he can't shoot a push!
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Its just to bad he doesnt have a great 5 bar. cause his 3 bar shoots about 80% on perty much any defender that i have seen him play against.
No one, even the top PM's make 4 out of every 5 shots, every match they are in.
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I agree, "Old Sweater", nobody shoots 80% for very long. One reason is defenses adapt over time. Funny how a player with a great five row sometimes shoots a little lower percentage on the three and a player with a weak five seems to shoot higher percentages on the three row. If you look at the overall percentages of winning forward's three row it will likely be about the same as a pro quarterback's passing percentage, 50%-70% overall. Sometimes in a hot streak, a player will hit 80%-100% but with each attempt the "D" will adapt and improve and gradually lower a shooter's production. I encourage players or thier coaches to keep statistics and see if what I say holds true over an entire tournament. My overall strategy is to be above 50% on the three row and for five row passing completions and hold the opposition below 50%.
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To me it seems like you can hit the *short Push shot holes* faster than the *short Pull shot holes*, which keeps the Push Shot defense tighter, that allows the Push shooter to not need as much speed or distance when going long. With that said, there still are other reasons why more people have had more success with the Pull Shot.
Cick below to see what easy fast options I see and what I like about the Push Shot -when I'm reading the Defense
http://www.arkansasfoosball.com/select_foosball_shots.htm (http://www.arkansasfoosball.com/select_foosball_shots.htm)
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Trust me....a push shot is a bad idea....to be honest most people that shoot one get no respect from pther players...(girls shoot it at tournaments) not to dis girls...it is just labled a girl shot.......
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ya you see that B??? A GIRLY SHOT!!!!! you tell'em Chase... lol
no I would have to say that Brandon's push is probably one of the best that I have seen, however he is MUCH more deadlier or dangerous shooting his snake than he ever was shooting his push. Well... I guess he has more of a gardener snake than anything...
Rios
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Oh you silly kids who don't trust the push. You simply have to do it right. It needs to grow, from soft-relaxed to an abrupt act of violence. It is the ultimate in making your foe eat it, right in front of him/her. I once made the winning shot with the push that made my pro-opponent let out a scream as it went by, quite satisfying,,,
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I will say that when I go back to it, and it works, I feel pretty good about it. It definately pisses alot of people off to get beat by a push. When my short spray works well, my long looks pretty long. Dead bar? not quite, I can hit it. but I will never try to go that square in a game. The only other person I've seen hit it dead, is Tony. If the snake were ever illegal, my push would resurface.
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my shot is coming along real well, so i had to come back to this thread to make the comment that my push is easier and more acurate for me. my angle short is pretty good and it sets up the long or middle for that matter , pretty well. my pull is decent but it seems to get blocked more. its kinda like ol miester said- it happens so fast and is just intimidating as hell.also im lazy so i havent yet researched the snake and quite frankly dont even know what it is. anyone feel like humoring me?
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Don’t let anyone tell you a push shot is not a good shot to learn or use. If you have all the options, straight, middle, long, as well as a good slice across the middle, push into a pull kick etc. The point being, any shot is a good shot if you can hit all the holes at any given time.
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thank you ill keep that mentality.now, about that snake......i know i probably know the shot but just cant make the connection
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B,inSA- the "snake" is a front pin rollover, some call it a spin shot. You need some pressure on top of the ball for any pin shot, front or back if you want to move the ball. The main advantage to the snake is an immediate middle if it is open, all you do is spin it in without any lateral movement at all. Once they defend the middle one of the corners has to be open either push or pull.
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so you pin the ball and then kinda "pinch" it in? i think i can picture it. also a buddy of mine has this shot where he pins the ball on the wall with the 5 row and then slams the crap outta the rod against the wall. it squirts straight in ,at an angle every time. is it legal? i hope its not cause its real rough on my table.
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illegal......jarring is illegal...
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great news
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No. You don't pinch it in. The ball is struck using a roll over the ball in a counter-clockwise semi-spin motion. To learn the middle snake start by hand setting the ball in a front pin in the middle of the goal. Then put your right wrist on the handle. Now move your arm up and catch the handle with your hand. It is basically a spin motion that is stopped by catching the handle. The man travels almost 360 BEFORE striking the ball.
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alright, G M im gonna try real hard to comprehend this. i have researched it(you-tube) but i dont have the fastest video card so its always a blur.
so first off what i thought it was- i saw them pin the ball (foot of man on top of ball on the goalie side of the 3 man rod, right?) then they proceed to do a tap-tap manouver to get a good grip( of the top of the ball, right?) then i thought in one very fast motion, let go of the "grip" they had, chose one side of the ball , and kinda slid over ball to one side- then go behind the ball in a clock-wise rotation and then hit the crap out of it.
ok , now what i think you're tellin me- so to verbally diagram. if you are looking down the rod on the 3 man from your own side. you pin it, tap-tap the top, and then basically just do a "spinner " manouver COUNTER-clockwise , however you catch the handle just before the man completes a 360* "spin". so to say, you never push the rod in or out ( to get on or around either side of the ball) you just pick a hole and spin it backwards but catch it.
ok, asuming i understand the concept ( which i might not) what happens if you dont catch it and it ends up being a spinner? is there a penalty? point,possesion, warning? i really appreciate you takin the time to explain this to me. am very anxious to figure this out as well. Thanks G M, B
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p.s.- i do understand that there IS some advanced laterall movement ( pushing the rod in or out while in the "pin" position in order to fake, or pick a hole), lots a tap-tap and rolling it to and fro. i guess sonn i will have to begin understanding defenses. later, im gonna go practice..
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check out this show motion video of the rollover(snake)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXqLIZkty88
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Now we are getting the idea. Let's forget about the tapping for a moment. I will break it down as if we were going to program a robot (you) to execute the play in its's simple form. The middle is just a counterclockwise spinwhere the foot of the man DOES not travel laterally at all. You need to understand that the ball DOES NOT move sideways at all in this shot. The program would be "rotate bar 400 (aprox) degrees suddenly"counterclockwise. Until you can do this motion which is basis for push and pull rollover snake shots you don't need to move the ball. Just go to the table and learn this stroke first. I know this may not seem like the thing to do, but humor me for now and be patient. FORGET ABOUT THE TAPS FOR NOW!
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Ok, no taps. im gonna practice it tonight....ill let you know
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where you from B? is there any foos there? The best way to learn is to actually watch the game being played, and then ask questions... and probably the best learning tool is to actually play and get your arse handed to you... believe me... it is how EVERYONE learns...
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yeah im kinda learning to lose. Im in San Antonio tx. Im supposed to go check out the tourney's @ fast eddies. i def want to watch good people play. the thing about foos for me is the difficulty finding 3 other players to play at my home. i have alot of friends, but my friends are very social as well so its hard to get the guys over at the same time. also, most are married, ect..
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Don't worry, succcess is built on a mountain of failures. The most difficult thing is to find others that wish to play. Foosers are rare, if you can find even one that will play regularly with you, you are luckier than most.