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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: foosit on December 20, 2007, 11:04:59 PM
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seems the best price i can find on a home t2000 is around 1600, but that is shipped on ebay ($1250 + $350 for the shipping), so I'm guessing it can be found for less if I find a store and pick it up.
is the home t2000 any different than the coin op other than the coin mechanism, do they play exactly the same?
what is a good price for the t2000 home version in a store?
I inquired in a local store and they said there is a new model, the F5, anyone played on one of these? how does it compare to the t2000?
edit:
got my table, it has a little hint of a smoke smell, but other than that it's great! it took me a little while to figure everything out, but I like the table a lot.
Thanks for recommending Charles McIntosh
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8774/pict0099ko5.th.jpg) (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pict0099ko5.jpg)
still working on getting the thing level and deciding where I want to put it for good
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The description of the product is basically the same. I have had mine for 6 months and numerous semi pros and other really good players have all said its the best table they've played on in some time....Ive actually moved it 3 times and it is easy to move and very resiliant. I wouldn't trade itr fo anything.....I had a ctclone II for a few months....traded it in and upgraded...save the cash and buy t 2000....You can find a good used coin op for cheaper though....
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Chance,
are you saying you have had an F5 for 6 months or a home model T2000 because there is a big difference
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check out dead link.
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i have the home model not the f5...
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tuna i havent seen the newer tables....i like the idea of the cup holders.....whats the main differences i noticed the rods are brushed....anyhting else?????whats the weight of the table...? I thin kit looks pretty cool though
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A buddy of mine just got a F5 and we broke it in the other night. It is a great table however the only thing is... the table surface is slicker than snot! Seriously... if the ball is flying around the table, good luck trying to back pin or front pin the ball. Now I have heard that the coin-op version of the new table has a better playing surface. Honestly, for that price I would just get a coin-op. It is cheaper, and will probably play better.
The main difference between the F5 and the T2000 is the cabinet is different, the F5 is a one piece while the T2000 is a two piece table or flip top, I think the F5 plays ALOT faster than the T2000, the rods on the F5 seem to be alot faster also, again the playing surface on the F5 is VERY slippery whilethe T2000's playing surface is more similar to the grey marble tables.
I would definatly go and play on both of the tables before making that big of a purchase!!!
hope this helps
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the T2000's before the F5 were the exact same table as the coin-op minus the coin-op mechanism...the F5 is not the same as the coin-op, it weighs like 100 lbs less
the newest coin-op have some manufacturing issues I haven't heard have been straightened out - serious ones like a warped play surface...so, buy a tournament used late model Grey Marble coin op or an old Brown Marble for $400-$600 and plan to spend some mode bring it up to like new whatever it needs
these new tables are like the first release Grey Marble (30 th Anniversary Edition) which had the slicker surface and other issues...kind of like when MS releases their latest operatiing system, you don't want to be an earlier adopter...let eh suckers work out the bugs and if you just have to have the latest model, wait a year or until you get word from reliable sources that the kninks have been worked out
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anyone know the dimensions of the main part of the table on a t2000? (the box without the legs and with the men/poles removed)
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Figure 3X5, if you need these dimension for transportation, so it'll fit in the back of an SUV with the rods removed. With the rods installed it's 47" wide, if I remember correctly. I didn't fit into my Freestyle no matter how much I tried. I can give you precise measurements of my coin op on Thursday.
gcp
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I found a coin op brown marble t-2000, it looks pretty good from a picture they sent, owner rates it a 8 or 8.5 out of 10. no major damage, needs to be cleaned up a bit though. they are asking $700 for it, I think i might go for it.
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$700 is too high for a Brown Marble even in "good" condition...the newest of these tables is well over 10 years old...get them down to $550 and it will be an okay price but still near top dollar...for $700 I would have to know that all the rods and been replaced with heat-treated rods and all the bearings were new or as good as new and that there were no chips around the goal mouth
if you are looking for a Brown Marble, be patient on ebay and on Craig's list and you will find one priced right
don't pull the trigger too soon unless the deal of a life-time comes up and contact the people and ask question and get good pictures of the surface, walls, goal mouth, bearings, and rods...make sure the rods aren't warped since all rods look normal in a stationary picture...be prepared to spend money to replace at least the 2, 3, and 5 rod on the ball return side and if you can swing it, those same rods on the other side...rods are around $32.5 each so that is $100 to $200 more
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thanks for the info bbtuna, i'll be sure to find out about the rods and goal mouths, I probably wouldn't have thought of that.
How would I check the bearings?
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well 2 things...first, you can look for obvioius external issues with good close up pictures or you can ask them and hopefully they will know...from the outside, the only obvious thing would be a crack or part of it chipped off
I didn't say anything about the men but I am assuming they are all new or like new (that means to me no visible cracks) - men are about $5 a piece so it can add up fast if a bunch of them are bad...nice if they have a few extra because ideally you would like to have 3 black and 3 yellow back up and if you get down to 1, reorder 2 more that way you don't run out at that crucial time
another thing about men...it may appear that on the outside the men are fine and that is step one but the reason I say new or like new is because there may be old men on there that are whole and not broken which on the surface seems fine - however, the foot of the man has grooves and if a man is played on long enough, these grooves wear down...
I was having control problems on my table and it didn't dawn on me that I had practiced enough to wear the front toe of my man almost flat...I put a new man on there and it was like getting a brand new table...so, if you can't see the foot, ask the person you are buying it from...or plan to change at least the center man on the 3 bars both 2 bars and probably the near man on the 5 bar
on rods...all rods need to be AT THE VERY LEAST straight no bow at all...a rod with bow can not be straightened...you can live with it and play on it like you do at a bar but there is no reason your home table, which will become your baby, should have bent rods...rods at $32.5 each really add up...I would be willing to bet that the 2 bars are almost for sure bent unless they were just changed and a good chance the 3 bar is as well
this is okay because you are buying a 10-12 year old table but you need to factor in the cost when buying the table
and if you can get all new heat-treated rods on the table, they will last nearly forever and they play much much better...best single improvement to the table in at least 15 years...very very hard to bend them out of shape, they are smoother, and they take less lube to keep in tip top shape
I have a Rosewoood T2000 and replaced the 2, 5, and 3 bars and it was like a new table...one day I will replace the others as well but for now, my practice is covered
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If you are planning on buying the old Brown Marble for $700 I would just save up an extra $300-$400 and buy a Gray Marble table... hell you could get a new F5 coin-op from Mary Moore after her tournys for $1200 save up and get a better table rather than dump in the extra $200 on that old table to bring it up to par... plus you said that it has some damage...
more than likely that old table has spent it's life in a bar taking beer baths...
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as I said to start this, $700 would be too much to pay for a Brown Marble...I play weekly on a Brown Marble which has been in this same bar for 15 years and I would buy it gladly for $400 bucks...put a few new rods on it, change out a couple bearings and a few men and I would have a rockin table even though there are a couple chips around the goal mouth but that happens to every table I play on because I hit the edge quite a bit
so, if I could pull the thing off, with rods, men, shipping for $700 and I still have a table that will last another 20 years, then that is a lot less than $1150 for a tournament used Grey Marble (don't buy the new F5 coin-op yet) and $150-$175 shipping -- $700 verses $1300 is almost double
now, if money isn't an issue or you could wait a few months and afford the Grey Marble then I say get the newer table but that isn't always possible for everyone
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If you are gonna get an old brown marble, you either need to change out the surface for the newest one or find some of the old balls from late 80's-early 90's that went to the brown marbles or blondes. I have a blonde, and although the new fuzzy balls work well enough, they are actually too sticky for the old surface IMO--at our local pub we got the vendor to put new fuzzy balls in an old browntop and it played too slow for me. When I traded them out for the older balls that came with my 1999 blonde CO2000 , it speeded up play while making the pinning and ball control closer to what today's slicker surface plays like with the newer fuzzy balls. Ultimately you want to practice on something that is as close as possible to what you will be playing on at tourneys.
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check out http://tornadofoosb.powweb.com/tornadofoosballcominc/
anyone buy from these guys? they are actually about 3 hours away so definately a possibility.
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bbtuna - did you do anything to your table to protect against mouth chipping?
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foosit, this is the place I have mentioned in a number of posts owned and run by Charles McIntosh 30+ year promoter and the largest seller of Tornado coin-op tables (thanks to Mary Moore is good friend and the largest tournament promoter in the country - by a very large margin - IFP Independent Foosball Promotions)
I did not do anything about chipping, I thought the table would hold up better in this area but I clearly should have
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I got this in a email from florida foosball
i am selling 4 tables that are 2 years old from rudys. i am buying new ones. i do this about every 2 years. normally i get appox. 900 each. i want to sell them fast so, i am selling them for 750 each. if someone was interested in all of them i would take 700 each. please let everyone know. they can pay with credit card but 7% tax would have to be added.
bobby diaz
If your interested Get in touch with me and I will pass his number allong to you.
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ed, is this for grey marble later edition or is the earlier anniversary edition? this is from bobby Diaz bar I assume?
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if they are the last gery marble I would be interested in at least 1 and maybe all 4
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Email sent
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If anyone is still thinking about buying a f5. Think again. I personally own a T2000. It is a 2006 model. I play weekly tounys on the grey marble coin opp table. I can't tell any difference, they play the same. My friend bought a new f5 about 3-4 weeks ago. I have been playing on it quite a bit. It is a totally different table. The playing surface is alot faster/slippery. shooting a roll over is strange, if you try to go back and forth between a f5 and a grey marble.....good luck. All of the new tornados with the exception of the coin opp, have playing surfaces made in china. they are totally different. My advise....find a used coin opp, the weight, the surface, the rods, the men....are all the same as any tounament you'll play. Go to tornadofoosball.com, they have really good deals.
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decided to buy a grey marble coin op from Charles McIntosh, $950 + freight. I thought that sounded good. it's a 2005. I'll post again after I get it in case anyone else is thinking about buying a table from him.
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good choice, I played on the table with BB a few weeks ago and then on a new coin op F5 and he is right, the table surface is totally different.
You will be happy with your Grey!
Congrats!!!
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950 is okay just make sure it
1. isn't an Anniversary model
2. has all heat-treated rods
3. has men that are NOT nylon
anyone looking should be considering Ed Geers connection wiht Bobby Diaz who is selling his Grey Marbles for 750...they would have more use than a tournament table but I would have to believe that he takes good care of them
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what is wrong with the anniversary version? slicker surface? is that it?
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yes and most of them didn't have all heat-treated rods
I didn't mind the surface so much but players much better than me complained about how slick they were
charles M should be able to tell you with no issue and he should not take offense with the questions in any way, he will understand
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was the anniversary virsion a 2003 table only it seems to me i read that some where the first gray marble coin opp
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bbtuna - did you contact florida foosball about the tables they have for sale? if so what was the deal with them?
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that may be right but I am not sure...if it came out in 2003 it was late 2003 and it was out through 2004...it may have come out in 2004 and through 2005 which is the way I seem to remember but I could be wrong...easiest thing to do is ask Charles M...it doesn't really matter because it could be an anniversary table either way...just ask...you don't want that table...outside of the current F5 crap, it was the least liked table they have made
now, i dislike the rosewood more but that is just me but most people really didn't like it
again, just ask CM, he can and will tell you
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Charles, did you ever decide whether you were buying all of Diaz's tables? I currently have a 99 Blonde which doesn't play like the grey marbles at Stratford so practicing does me little good, its just a funzy table now. I wonder what shipping would be from FLA to 63366? I know it would be a $100 for gas for the 450 mile roundtrip to Kansas City but then I would still have to reimburse you for what it cost you to ship that far. Any thoughts?
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now i'm confused, i asked if it was the anniversary edition, and here's the response I got:
"This is the later model. It has the current surface, which is slightly slicker that the ‘03’s and ‘04’s."
so how many different surfaces are there? after 04 the surface got slicker? so all 2005-2007 tables are that way? I think it won't make that big a deal to me, i don't plan on playing tournaments, this is just a table to learn and have fun on for me.
I asked about the men and rods and the rods are heat treated and men are not nylon, so should be good. I think I'll be happy with it. I'll update when I get it setup, can't wait.
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foosit , the table i got was a 2005 table got it in 2006 used in a tounament once. a great table, i think you will be happy with it
in fact a bar in town got a brand new coin opp about 6 months
ago it seems slower to me, the surface is a little lighter green
then mine, i sure am happy with mine, also theres a old brown
marble in town with red slick balls, that table playes real good
hope my table plays that good at that age. anyway i'm sure you
will enjoy
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foosit,
that is good...by current model I am sure he means before the F5 so u are in good shape...you will be very happy with your table...great choice...enjoy...keep us all up to date after you get it and how you warm up to it
remember you will have certain expectations when you first get he table...try and squash those and give yourself time to warm up to the table and get to know it
after a short time, you will really like the table
happy foosin
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Playing surfaces 101
There are 2 manufactures of custom high pressure Laminate that I know Tornado has used in the past, they are:
Wilson-Art
Pionite
The original 1981 spec for the surface was that of Wilson-Art 40 sheen with a sandblast texture. However over time and after Dynamo bought Tornado, they changed to Pionite on the first Dynamo built tables, later they changed back to Wilson-Artor maybe to Nevamar on the blonde table series. Pionite has always been the cheapest of the three and there spec is not 40 sheen but more like 75 or 80 sheen. Pionite doesn't have a sandblast texture either, it is called eggshell. The Pionite Hpl is slick dark green even though the color of the laminate has nothing to do with how slick it is.
Today I beleave the Mexican tables are using something similar to Pionite. The coin-ops are still made in Fort Worth and I beleave the surface is made currently by Wilson-Art. Wilson-Art is my preferred material.
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nice post, i love that kind of thing...i am a total looser who needs to get a life...I find talk about surface material for foosball tables enjoyable...soo sad...I am going out for a drink and some foosball
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oh, and I am going to be going over the surface of the grey marble and brown marble i will play on tonight as well as tomorrow i am checkin the rosewood i have at home
i know the darker green you are talking about...that is the one that was on the Anniversary model
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got my table all set up, I put a picture in the first post. thanks everyone for all the advice
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Congratulations, looks great...what a time, getting a new table is great
go slow and keep your expectations as low as possible and in a very short time you will really apprecaite what you have...very good choice
again
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
HAVE A FUN WEEKEND WITH THE NEW TOY