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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: dliebes on February 06, 2008, 01:19:00 PM
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I am in the process of opening a Billiards Parlor in Greensboro, NC and I am planning to include 3 coin-op foosball tables. I am not a serious foosball player and would appreciate your advice on which make and model foosball table I should purchase. My goal is to attract the serious player. Depending on the interest, I would consider adding more tables. All comments would be appreciated.
gatecitybilliards@triad.rr.com
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In that area, you would want either Tornado or Bonzini. Both have established player bases in central North Carolina. Each have only one model Coin-operated model so choosing the model should be easy.
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Gotta go with Tornado if you are looking to attract the most players. Bonzini's player base is much smaller.
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Install both Bonzini and Tornado. They don't have to be brand new either. Both retain their resale value as well. Bonzini is huge in NC. If you buy them new they will depreciate about 30 to 40% the first year. You can get a really good used Tornado Coin-op for under $1000. If you want to create a ITSF training center, buy a TECHBALL or one of the other ITSF sanctioned tables as well. You can find out more at http://ustsf.foosball.com/ (http://ustsf.foosball.com/) or http://www.table-soccer.org/partners/ (http://www.table-soccer.org/partners/)
Good luck and thanks
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already serious players rarely come out unless it is for a tournament so don't plan to build you foosball business around them...some may be willing to help you with clinics and stuff like that but think in terms of building a core of new players
run special things and events for novice players to get their interest up and if you find some people who want to take the game to the next level, you can introduce them to the "tournament" side of foosball
you can run one or two weekly tournaments but those are only good for a few hours and alone won't support the room foosball tables take up
I think Edgeers idea of an ITSF training center would be good...it really tweaks my interest especially if you could get one of each of the official tables because there is no place in the US that has that...it would be interesting to see what table new players picked if left to their own choice...the link Ed left you will show you what the ITSF (International Table Soccer Federation) is all about and you can see the 5 recognized tables...big big difference in how they each play
American is 99% Tornado and 1% Bonzini and most of that is in your neck of the woods
i highly recommend not making any decisions based on a few comments on this or some other board...you need to spend sometime talking with someone...I would be willing to chat with you if it would help...also, you should look for someone in your area who established player/promoter who, and this is really important so go slow before you jump at the first willing person who seems to know a lot...anyway, someone who has a really good reputation among established players (not based on what they say but based on what others say)
find where the best weekly tournaments are in your area and go visit and ask questions and meet people...i am guessing NC has a state foosball website?
anyway, good luck, call if you want
charles 816-665-7798 cst
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GateCity,
I grew up playing in Greensboro at the legendary foosball bar called P.J.'s. In fact, Greensboro hosted the first North Carolina State Foosball Championships at a place called Choosie Mothers in 1974. Bonzini table play is very popular in our area. The Bonzini U.S.A. office and warehouse are only located 35 miles away in Pinnacle, NC. Greensboro is located directly between 2 of the larger Bonzini players bases in NC. Our Raleigh and Winston-Salem player associations are well established. You may be mislead by some of the comments regarding size and territory. We are small in comparison to the larger companies, but we are in the top 3 of the "Premium Table-Soccer" category. The fact that we are player owned and operated gives us a better understanding of how to help the business operator achieve their goals. Our player base has grown steadily for the past 10 years. Our tournament events are produced in a professional manner to maximize entertainment value. We run "Zero" profit events that benefit local and national charities. Since 2001, Bonzini U.S.A. Foosball Tour players, along with support from event sponsors have raised over $128,000.00 for these charities.
My name is Alan Cribbs and I am the owner of Bonzini U.S.A.
Our office is located in Pinnacle, NC and our warehouse is in Winston-Salem.
We have been looking for an opportunity to host an event in Greensboro and your location sounds like the perfect fit and a win-win opportunity.
Please contact us at 336-325-3183.
We can help with layout and decoration of the foosball table area and we can also supply you with current local NC business references.
(http://www.bonziniusa.com/GalleryPictures/Pictures/gallery%20pictures/gallery%20pictures%20page%206/2007%20NC%20State%20Foosball%20Championships%20152%20BIG.jpg)
2007 North Carolina State Foosball Championships
(http://www.bonziniusa.com/images/HomePagePics/2006%20Back%20to%20Billards(BIG).jpg)
Baltimore BCA Tradeshow
We have been a BCA member since 2000
We look forward to hearing from you
Also look at:
http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=1470.0
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Allen, do you import the Techball? And does it use men like those that where on the brown top Dynamo in the early 80's?
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Ed,
We are still working on getting the TechBall product in.
There are just a few more details between Techball and Cribbs Inc. to be worked out.
It's going to be $$$$$.
We hope to announce a 1-time, wholesale price offer for those interested in the U.S. soon.
As soon as I get pricing confirmation, it will be announced.
Alan
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Alan is one of those trustworthy people I was talking about...he obviously will lean toward Bonzini but he is 100% in the know with Tornado and ITSF so he is a great source
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Follow up
I got to talk with the owner yesterday and enjoyed relaying the passion I had for the game to him.
Hopefully we will have some future projects before the end of the year worked out.
Later
Alan
Charles, thanks for the kind words
Greatly appreciated
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Thank you all for you comments/advice. It's very helpful for someone like me that does not know the game.
FYI, we will have 12 Brunswick Gold Crown IV 9ft pool tables, 1 10ft snooker table, 1 10ft heated three-cushion billiards table, 2 English dart boards, 1 American dart board, video games, poker tournements and a full bar as well as the foosball. If anyone reading this is in the area (Greensboro, NC), please stop by. We will be called Gate City Billiards Club and are currently planning to open early July.
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any time,
I am not a Bonzini fan but I understand the fascination with its style and respect its rich history and I think it belongs in circle of recognized tables…
I also understand how many people get defensive about “their” table…I see the game differently so unlike some others (say like the “owner” of another board) I think the game is bigger than one table and what people like you and ITSF are doing are the right kind of things
I am proud of the Tornado tradition and think during its time has provided a build standard to be emulated but I don’t think they own the best play style…
it is like the difference between grass, clay, and other surfaces in tennis…with that said, I think there should be some standards…
RECONGINZED TOURNAMENT TABLES
• playing surface size,
• Goal size width AND height (and shape so no rounded tops)
• level playing field,
• Sides and side strips
• men separated by the same distances,
• foot size standards (width and height off the field),
• ball standards (specifically that it is true-round, a specific size, and within published weight limits [low and high]),
• rod height from the ground and from the table surface within specific tolerances (so that a rod is the same height at one end as it is on the other if you know what I mean)
Ideally I would like also to see some other things too:
• Rod Standards: (like I would not accept telescoping rods – no offense) , weight, length, circumference, and eventually material
• Exchangeable handles and limits on material, size, and weight (I think figuring out what is standard on materials and sizes would take some time but I think changing handles could happen very soon – and should)
• Table weight (at least 300 pounds)
• Bearing materials, types, and tolerances
I think with ITSF it is generally headed in that direction just not quite as quickly as I would like but you need to accept that it is a process and not a destination
I really respect what you are doing and there are a number of you out there which in my opinion are on the leading edge trying to help the sport move forward despite table differences or loyalties (like Larry Davis)
Cheers
Charles
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would love to have a bonzini here in central florida.....gotta drive 2 hours to Jacksonville......aint worth it....
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There would not be enough varity if we held the specs that close from one table to the other. The physical differences is what creates each brand's personallity. An I love those Bonzini Telo-rods, they are so so smooth.
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Keep in mind that any advice given to you by a vendor is given with the underlying motive that they are trying to sell you a product. While there are definitely various types of tables that have achieved popularity throughout the country some are much more popular than others!!! Granted, certain areas may be devoted to one type of table over another but no one can deny that Tornado is the predominant table with a player base that FAR EXCEEDS any other table. Just some food for thought. Look at the tour numbers and you will see that there is not much of a contest between tornado and bonzini. That being said, we have both types of tables at our local pool hall.
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ed,
I don't agree...the material of the man, the shape of the foot, the type of ridges, if any, on the foot, the ball material (density, weight, etc within tolerences), the table playsurface material, the wall material, the bearing types, rod diameter, weight, and rod material are enough to allow for unique play characteristics...the ball, man, and play surface is 70%-80% of the current table characteristics and then each table seems to have some build characteristic that is odd...like the Telescoping rods on Bonzini and Roberto Sport or Garlando's very large strip and ramps
but when you play you don't have to face a different size play surface and goal...specific standards on these, like Tennis, Football, Basketball, Soccer, etc
all tennis matches are played on the same size feild although the field surfaces are much different but the net is the same height then their is the ball which has to be strick tolerences and then the racket and the rackets have tolerences too but the variety of how they are made makes a big difference in play...I see this like this
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Good advice from AT.
Fortunately when I talked to the owner I may have convinced him not to purchase tables right off the bat. Vendors/ operators can lock in a location with a contract that will hurt there business. My suggestion was to install 2 tables on a temporary basis to see if they produce and have potential to grow a player base. Furthermore, it allows the location to see if the table provider backs their position of helping create a new player base with follow-up tournament promotions.
Regardless of tour size, the locations success in terms of "foosball" lies on the development of a new player base that helps the location generate income. The numbers mean nothing unless they visit your location and spend $$$$. Having multiple styles of tables at a location means nothing unless the location or player group is willing to involve both in their development.
The layout of the location looks fantastic and has great potential in hosting larger events. We look forward to working with Gate City Billiards in making this happen.
Alan
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I agree that the numbers mean nothing if no one visits, but as far as generating income, I would argue that existing player base has as much or more to do with success as do new players. Existing player base is going to provide the framework for new players to learn and improve. I was merely telling the guy who has no experience with foos where his best option for finding existing players was. New players are not picky about what tables they play on and older players are. Tornado has a vastly larger pool of older players and this was what I based my statement on. In my experience, Tornado players are no less willing to teach new players than Bonzini players. New players are not going to be disinclined because a table is a certain style of play. They are going to play where they get a chance to play against and learn from the best players they can. In nearly every area of the country, this is more likely on a tornado than a bonzini.
Just my .02
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One thing to keep in mind: While its true that Tornado has a much larger player base throughout the USA, that's not true in NC, and especially not true in the Greensboro area which has historically been one of the hotbeds for Bonzini style foosball since the early 1970's.
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Again, I want thank everyone for your input. I plan to place one Tornado and one Bonzini (unless Alan is not willing to partner under that condition) before I add the third table, which will be the type that attracts the greatest interest.
I am very impressed with Alan's knowledge and enthusiasm and he appears to have earned a great deal of respect throughout this community. I look forward to working with him.
Thanks,
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No, thank you sir! While we here are avid about our sport we understand the economics of running a business. I am 1000 miles away in Dallas, Texas but I have met Alan on several occaisions at our national tournaments. I have also seen here on the web Alans success with his approach from the responce of others like you that have worked with him. I wish you a very successful venture and again thanks for giving our sport a chance.
Edmund Geer
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well said ED, i totally agree...good luck, if i was in the area, i would do what i could to help you...there are others who will do the same...just get to know them and see who are the good people you can trust ... i think it will be a short search
good luck, keep us informed on how it goes
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I would go with two tornado tables for the serious crowd, and one shelti for the new/beginner players. Shelti is a great table to learn basics on, plus has some of the same high speed action of tornado.
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Serious crowd?
It seems the Bonzini U.S.A. players are a serious crowd.
They pay their own expenses to compete internationally.
This was before it became fashionable for U.S. players to compete abroad.
They were the first to implement the ELO ranking system.
They work to get table sponsors at each and every event so the local charities benefit from their tournaments.
They are the ones invited to national and local trade shows to demonstrate foosball play for the crowds.
It's a very inclusive environment regardless of table preference. They are pretty serious players that take a serious approach to growing the game without taking themselves too serious while playing it.
Shelti is a great choice also for the beginners as you said.
We (Cribbs Inc.) are one of Shleti's foosball distributors also.
Later