Foosball.com Forums
Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: chance37 on February 21, 2008, 10:09:58 AM
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so what do you guys think realistically the chances they go to a one man goalie....Reading the other board about Eds mods to the men and several on there think that brunswick will never put up the cash to make new molds...hope thats not true because i think eds new idea is great....switching to a single goalie would require a new surface with ramped corners Id imagine the cost of that would mammoth the changing of the men? IS brunswick just talking big about changing the men or do they really care? As far as the goalie I could care less if it changes...
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I am not a fan of the one man goalies... i like the use of the guys in back to help set up my shot from the 2bar, plus you are able to pass with them.
However, I have also heard that they are thinking about it due to all of the Euro tables have 1 man goalies, except like one table...
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i agree. setting the ball up is a good thing about the 3/
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I added this question to the poll section so go vote and lets see what people think.
http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=1569.0
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I tried out the one-man goalie Tornado when I was in Italy. I thought they did a great job incorporating the differences from the norm and I thought it played fine. Doubtful you'll see any in the US, though.
People have to get past their table biases. If someone asked me what kind of table to get if they want to be a great player, my answer would be... As many different ones as you can get!
Limiting yourself to one kind of table, you're limiting your skills.
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Brad, well said
both 3 and 1 man goalies have advantages
I like playing on the Tornado as it is, but you get ALOT more slop with the 2 wing men...not even close...I used to argue about this but I have watched this closley since then and have played on a one man goalie since then and it isn't even close
i am not arguing for one or the other, I can live with either and Brad is right, learn to play all kinds of tables, that is what makes a person a great fooser now...as Frico
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I'M OK WITH IT. My question is how long did they increase the Goalie Rod to make it work like it's shown..
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i believe the corners are ramped slightly which is nice too much of a ramp and its a pain in the ass to set up pulls....i dont think you have to make the road any longer
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um I'll stck to 3 men goalies as I like to shoot from the outer man.
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The 3 man goalie was born of necessity and economics. It makes the game eaisier for the beginner to learn and it lowers the cost of production. With all that said Farid Lounas of the ITSF hates the 3-man goal and has told me in person that a 1 man goalie will be required sometime in the future for ITSF recognition. Lounas thinks the 3-man goal goes against the standardization of foosball tables and therefore bad for the sport.
The 3-man goalie is my only contribution to what I beleave is the betterment of foosball. But if having a 3-man goalie rod hampers Foosball's recognition as a sport by the International Olympic Committee, I say put those extra guys on waivers.
Ed Geer
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P.S. If someone would be kind enough to post this for me on the Foosballboard.com forum I would be grateful.
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....i dont think you have to make the road any longer
When looking at the table it doesn't seem like you can push the Single Goalie man far enough over, to get the ball when its way on the other side of the HOLE. As it looks now in the picture, the Handle would clearly bump up against the near wall Table Side, before the man gets to the other side of the Hole, as you push the rod towards the far wall. I dont see a ramp at all. Maybe the Ramp or slant will be there; But if not, I think the man needs to go a little further over to prevent too many dead spots. Regardless, I like the Single Goalie and 4 Less men per table, means a little less set up Time. I remember it being easy to set the Ball up, by using the back wall as a bouncing board.
70's Tornado Single Goalie Man Table belowhttp://www.yourwebpress.com/sites/employees/gstillwell/files/NEAFOOS//Tornado1970.jpg (http://www.yourwebpress.com/sites/employees/gstillwell/files/NEAFOOS//Tornado1970.jpg)
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On the goalie rod, the men are replaced by stops. The goalie covers the same amount of area in front of the goal... The corners are very mildly sloped... Dead spots aren't really any larger than before.
I think people are way over-analyzing the situation. Tornado trails the pack in Europe, even though if you ask most of the European players they'll tell you how good of a table it is. This is a no-brainer for Brunswick. Table sales, people... it's all about table sales.
For the conspiracy theorists out there, I really doubt this is a further attempt to undermine American foosball. I think it's simply an attempt to increase market share.
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I think it's simply an attempt to increase market share.
BULLS EYE Well Said Brad
Plus - "IMO" Protecting exisiting market share to retain the current market, usually is an important 1st step towards increasing market share. If you loose existing base to more competitors (we are now seeing more competition in USA and overseas ) the new sales gained might not be enough to increase overall market share. Oh well Change is here and it's exciting, just wish I had more time, energy, and extra money to blow playing all over the country again, Knocking the rust off. MY how priorities CHANGE with CHANGE.. I think most players like all tables regardless of the number of men, *IF the tables are in the manufacturer's top condition* when people play on them. Some tables are built differently and just have to be maintain more often than others. It's hard to find one table I couldn't have some type of fun on.
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This is "table soccer" and soccer has only one goalie.
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i love you OM but that is silly...I am not in favor either way but lets keep the direct comparrison to soccer to a minimum...soccer doesn't have ramps in the corner because men can run to the corner to get balls - real soccer doesn't have guys stuck on a pole with no arms - every other rod on the table has a man that can go to the wall and retrieve a ball with the exception of the goalie on a one man table - this has to be address one way or the other...either way creates a situation that is not like real soccer
besides, there aren't walls running the edge of the field of play that you can use to pass and shoot either...look at the size of the ball compared to the man, if this was real soccer the foosball should be much smaller..soccer is played on grass, the goal has a net and is much larger relative to the man size, and the list goes on...this doesn't even mention the rules of play which are significantly different in many ways
the one goalie in soccer is just not an arguement for (or against) of what should or should not be done in Table "Soccer" ... my take, those men really are not goalies because they can't cover the goal...they are just wingmen who, if careful study was done, I think, would be found to cause as much trouble as they do provide benefit
i started on a one man goal, I have gotten used to my wingman buds, but I would easily embarce a one man goalie again and I could live on with my wingbuddies
what I want is a manufacture that is savy in the home market so they can make tons of money and who has a passion for the tournament side of the game and will spend the resources to build a high-quality tournament table and will promote the sport at all levels, find creative ways to build a tour, and find real sponsors...then, I don't care if it is one goalie or five
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As I hate those invaders of a perfectly good game I have to explore every reason why they don't belong. Soooo, the game was originally meant to copy the game on the field so why those guys? Lol.
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Personally I have only ever played on a 1 goalie table, and I can't think of any major benefits to having three guys on your goalie bar.
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I posted this earlier.
It makes the game eaisier for the beginner to learn.
They lower the cost of production making the game more affordable to the masses.
They help prevent slop from going in from the corners.
They block the *** out of banks.
They are excellent passers and shooters.
They speed the game up by allowing quicker sets.
They trap balls that would otherwiser go back to the 3-rod.
They are polite and do not ask to play all the time like the other 3-rod guys.
They are grinders and never complain.
They are the best dressed men on the team.
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OM, there you go again, " originally meant to copy the game on the field so why those guys" dude, lift your hands and step away from the keyboard ;)
are there ramps in real soccer? NO! Why do they have them in foosball? Because the ball would roll dead over there all the time because the one goalie man can not move out of the goal
now here is the hard part...you either have ramps which are NOT part of soccer or you have wingman who can chase down a ball who are NOT part of soccer...
which is less like soccer...hills in the corner or goffer guys who can run and get balls where no other man can go?
this is simple physics...you can NOT make an arguement for one man based on the "real" game of soccer...
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Oh beat me and abuse me but I still hate them. If it aint broke don't fix it!
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i think 25 years on the longest running American tour in history takes them way past fixin something that was broken...and they were fixing something broken...sort of...it was to save money :-[ ... but it has been the standard on THE standard American table for nearly 25 years...no other table has lasted anywhere near that long as a tournament table
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you can hate em, that is cool
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I'm going to keep playing regardless. I didn't care for the 3-man goalie when they first came out, but now I think I prefer them. Slop doesn't matter to me, that's my main shot.
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...They are polite and do not ask to play all the time like the other 3-rod guys....
Too funny.
Give me my variety!
I really like the "variety" of playing styles on TORNADO tables alone.
I really like the "variety" of tables/surfaces/components and their styles of play
... and as such... i'd like to keep the 3man goalie around for a long time.
The "3-man" table will live on "forever" in the US, especially since a lot of lower end retail tables started to copy Tornado over the years. I wish I could be more confident that the larger tournaments in the US won't eventually "narrow" the game's variety that I love. With the bigger tournaments chasing the "sport" versus "game" of foos, i won't be surprised with an eventualy change in the US.
Whether or not Tornado play/tournaments in the US migrate to 1 man goalie Tornados will remain to be seen. I suspect ITSF will push for it... I suspect USTSF will want to fight it (it's my vote)... I suspect IFP will try to do what's best for their customers/business/turnout and struggle with the decision. Maybe they'll NOT scantion events for a while. I suspect USTSA will maybe do what Brunswick/Valley-Dynamo pressure them to do. And I suspect that if ITSF keeps delivering and they push for a narrowing of the game at the "sporting" level I think that change will come to some events in the US. Time will tell.
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From what Brad said.. it sounds like they are using the SAME goalie rod as on the 3-man table. So... the center goalie will have the same range of motion it's always had.
Any one want to bet that some day, Tornado will start stocking "3 rod lengths" instead of "4" like they do now?
The Goalie 3holed rod and Forward 3holed rod are of different lengths today... and the spacing between the 3 holes in those rods are different. On the good old single goalie TS tables they could use Goalie&Forward 3holed rods that were of the same length and hole spacing. (It also allowed the goalie more range - so the back-wall aerial was possible)
With DaveC at valley-dynamo seemingly being outnumbered by Biz guys vs Foos guys.... it wouldn't surprise me if a few Biz guys that focus on cost cutting stuff all day will push for streamling the variety of coin op tables and components they inventory.
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On the good old single goalie TS tables they could use Goalie&Forward 3holed rods that were of the same length and hole spacing. (It also allowed the goalie more range - so the back-wall aerial was possible)
Yep, I can remember being able to cheat a little by using that plastic strip around the goalmouth to help guide the ball up and over the center of the goal for easier setup of an aerial.
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Ah, the "wow factor" those days were when it meant something. Now it is so clinical,,,,