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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: EDGEER on March 09, 2008, 04:11:10 AM
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"Real Time Chat" is available at http://chat.foosball.com
Click on the link above, sign in with a "handle/nickname"... and chat away.
Hopefullly you won't be in there alone. We will schedule a few chats to help
you find other foosers/topics to chat with/about. Happy Foosing!
NEXT "SCHEDULED" CHAT TIME IS.....
... to be announced ...
8:00pm Pacific | 9:00pm Central | 10:00pm Mountain | 11:00pm Eastern
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... contact EdGeer with chat "fooser/topic" requests"
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PREVIOUS SCHEDULED CHATs........ Thank these guys for their efforts!
[18 Feb 2008] - [featuring Terry Moore] - ProMaster Fooser is featured guest/chat'r!
[17 Mar 2008] - [featuring Mike Archer] - aka the Frederico Killer :)
Ok, I got the "Old Bear" himself to join us next week. Archer is also know as the Fredrico killer having beat Rico several times in Open Singles. Mike is a wealth of knowledge about all things foosball and is willing to share his knowledge to all that ask. at http://chat.foosball.com (http://chat.foosball.com)
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sweet ill be there
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that is good...I collect tips and such I have read online and Mike is a very smart, articulate player who has a no non-sense concsice way of expressing himself
Ed,
do you mean Mike will be online live for questions or what...interesting idea and I am glad Mike is willing to jump in...I could see sessions like this catching on over time...
best teachers in foosball (from writing on the web or written interviews) I have found so far in no particular order...
Eric Dunn
Mike Archer
Todd Loffredo
Brandon Moreland
Dave Gummerson
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bumpage
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seriously, this needs more looks...read and respond to this...we want to encourage Mike, and maybe others in the future, this is a good element to the growth of individual games and the sport overall
lets support, encourage, and thank everyone involved
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what time will he be on any specifics yet?
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I heard Frederico was going to join under a different name to try to figure out Mike's game! :)
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Ya I'm sure Fred needed that at the last tournament
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What time is it going down?
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As a novice what kind ofhelp will this provide me? should i just take this time to go out to the bar and play?
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I'm sure he can help everyone learn a few things, more than just that I'm sure he has some pretty wicked tournament stories etc that would be worth tuning in for
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As a novice what kind ofhelp will this provide me? should i just take this time to go out to the bar and play?
Randy, Mike is one of the best players on Tornado. He has proven he can beat anyone on a given day. One of the reasons he can do that is his ability to pass at a very high rate against the best defendors. I was going to ask him how he learned to pass so well and what is it that makes him so successfull, but if you will log in tonight you can ask that one.
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Here is a Transscript of our conversation.
[EdGeer] Evening
[MikeArcher] Hello there!
[OM] dar, we got some good company
[EdGeer] I See you got clearence
[OM] Howdy!
[MikeArcher] lol - I did.
[darB_RST] Hey Mike... I have a question. Has a non-pro ever won an Open event at Texas State?
[MikeArcher] lol
[MikeArcher] why yes they have! :)
[darB_RST] Just checking. :)
[EdGeer] Is that shane
[MikeArcher] I stopped calling into inside foos when they figured out my pattern. :)
[darB_RST] HAHA
[EdGeer] So everyone introduce your selves to Mike
[darB_RST] Ed, that was Mike's call-in trivia question
[EdGeer] Ok Brad
[OM] Mike, I'm Old Meister, (Arlie) 70's fooser reborn
[MikeArcher] well, you have to add "male" to it, otherwise there are a million non-pro women that have won mixed. :)
[darB_RST] Oh... right
[MikeArcher] hi meister
[EdGeer] Brad are you delexic
[darB_RST] Sey
[OM] Hi, so does the TSA game translate to today well?
[MikeArcher] TSA? Not familiar with that acronym - do you mean TS?
[OM] TS not TSA
[MikeArcher] ah :)
[MikeArcher] Well, I can only tell you what I have seen from those older players that try (I am not one of them).
[MikeArcher] I think the basics translate ok, but you have to let go of the banks (at least on current equipment).
[OM] It seems the top players have reduced their game to it's simplest for
[OM] form
[MikeArcher] Probably the biggest changes I know of are the stopped passes are illegal, and the deifinition of jarring got a lot tighter.
[OM] good to know
[MikeArcher] well, the ones I speak with say that they pursue the percentages, so you do not get a lot of variety, you get a few things perfected.
[OM] The "ready" and the one second wait are new too
[MikeArcher] well, the "ready" thing I barely respond to as that is truely new, and I think it is silly. But they didn't ask me. :)
[OM] feel the same
[MikeArcher] the one second wait has been around for a long time, but you used to have to stop the ball for a full second, now it can be moving.
[EdGeer] Do you feel the changes are a good thing?
[OM] I stopped playing around 82 so it's new to me
[MikeArcher] I think some of them are. The ball off the table for a ramping rollover is nice for us pull shooters. :)
[MikeArcher] the non-foosing thing...well, I like it because I have personally felt the pain of valley forgetting how to use sandpaper and costing me a whole tourstop on miss-foosing the ball.
[MikeArcher] so I don't mind setting it in the table.
[EdGeer] Is there a active pro-master that you have not beat in dubs. Or Singles.
[MikeArcher] I still get caught off guard by folks abusing the 1 second and pass thing though, even after "ready". Takes some getting used to.
[MikeArcher] well, if it is doubles OR singles, no, not that I am aware of.
[MikeArcher] if it is doubles AND singles, then there are a few.
[MikeArcher] I have never beaten Louis in singles. Never got to play him all that much, but he plays a lot like I do but executes better most of the time.
[EdGeer] Whom gave you the most challenge?
[MikeArcher] never beat Adrian in singles either that I can remember.
[MikeArcher] beat them both in doubles though. :)
[MikeArcher] well, I guess Louis probably did since I never beat him. He has an amazing smooth two rod and the far wall passing was annoying.
[darB_RST] I want to know why there were so many more people in here when Terry Moore did this.
[MikeArcher] of course, I also try not to think about Tony too much - he is tough.
[MikeArcher] Terry has the fan club going on. :P
[darB_RST] Probably paid plants
[MikeArcher] lol
[MikeArcher] Terry's family all online asking questions.
[EdGeer] In Getting ready for a major event, what is your practise routine like?
[MikeArcher] Who is the "Geek" on here? Hasn't said much...just lurking?
[darB_RST] I think it's Chase Pennell.
[darB_RST] Dozing at the keyboard most likely
[EdGeer] You dont have to actually type in a name so there may be more than we see.
[OM] So what was the strategy in beating Freddy, slow it down and control or beat him at his own game
[MikeArcher] I'm one of those folks that takes a break the week before a major to rest up for the long weekend. Prior to that, I usually put an hour or two in a night for a week or two prior, plus my regular weekly tournaments.
[MikeArcher] Well, I don't play anyone fast really. :)
[MikeArcher] I can take quick shots and stuff, and my transition game is reasonably quick, but I am not a "fast" player.
[OM] I couldn't fingd any footage on Youtube so I don't know your game
[EdGeer] You have to pay for his Video's ! LOL
[MikeArcher] For whatever reason, I just match up well against Fred. I actually blocked his passes well with my right hand on the five (as well as my left), which is not true for anyone else strangely enough.
[OM] timing,,
[MikeArcher] Also, I used his speed against him when shooting, which no one else did apparently.
[MikeArcher] I shoot a pull, and normally am not raceable, but he is insanely fast.
[EdGeer] explain?
[MikeArcher] so he pretty much straight races most pulls (pretty much as in he moves a little, but he is racing).
[OM] He is fast but nothing is more frustrating than a nonreaction to the fakes
[MikeArcher] So I used a combination of off speed straights and three quarter square longs.
[MikeArcher] When I go, he goes, he wins, but I split him on the way over almost every time if I hit it right.
[MikeArcher] and because he is racing, if I sell the off speed straight, he only has to flinch and it is gone.
[MikeArcher] my passing percentage is always good, so I actually shot a pretty high percentage on him
[OM] So do you see it or just shoot for it
[MikeArcher] and thank god my simple D in goal works on him too.
[MikeArcher] it took a few shots to figure it out. Once you get straight raced a few times and you are not used to it, you either resign yourself to losing or get creative.
[OM] I like that
[MikeArcher] I actually got the idea from a local pro - Dan Mondics. His pull is always off speed at best, but he splits you everywhere.
[EdGeer] you also can shoot a rollover. Did you ever win a event shooting a roller?
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[MikeArcher] acutally yes, I won a few smaller things shooting a rollover. I have switched back and forth between a rollover and pull several times across my career (usually for years at a time).
[EdGeer] Good evenign
[MikeArcher] I actually started off shooting a rollover when I started playing. That damned David Pena said only a pull was mainly enough to shoot, so I switched. My shoulder hates him now.
[EdGeer] Your passing percentage is really high. What is it that you see in defenses that allows you to be so successful at catching your passes?
[MikeArcher] that one is pretty tough to answer actually. A lot of it is just natural feel. Once you get the mechanics down so you are not dropping passes for no reason, the rest is judging the defense.
[MikeArcher] some people like to move a lot - I tend to like to pass on those people. :)
[MikeArcher] if you move a lot, you are not really committing, and that makes my job pretty easy most of the time.
[OM] One thing that stands out on defense is the speed of the moves to cast doubt.
[EdGeer] So what are you looking for in the D
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[MikeArcher] most people have patterns - know it or not.
[MikeArcher] some people move and dive to the wall, others do the opposite, some just flail.
[EdGeer] So are you looking to anticipate the paptturn?
[MikeArcher] if they are just flailing, look for daylight and pass.
[OM] so how do you defend the pass
[MikeArcher] otherwise, yes, anticipate the movement.
[MikeArcher] that is why I tend to toss the ball a couple of times (most of the better passers do)
[MikeArcher] look for the patterns until you see something you like
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[MikeArcher] the trick is to not repeat yourself. You can't always pass on the third toss or whatever because then that just became your pattern and a good defender will kill you with it.
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[EdGeer] What do you think is a successful % is for you?
[MikeArcher] I assume you mean for passing.
[EdGeer] yes
[EdGeer] And do you keep count?
[MikeArcher] I would say most of the time I can get away with 50% and win most local tournaments. I would say I probably consistantly pass higher than that though, which helps to make up for my shot. :)
[MikeArcher] no, I don't keep count. Phil likes to though every now and then.
[MikeArcher] :)
[MikeArcher] I notice if my percentage is really high or low though.
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[EdGeer] LOL
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[MikeArcher] chocholate thunder has arrived!
[EdGeer] Alright Ice is here
[EdGeer] Not yet
[EdGeer] there he is
[EdGeer] Alright Ice
[EdGeer] ask a intellegent questiopn
[EdGeer] ask a intellegent questiopn
[OM] he probably getting a beer,,,
[Iceman] sup
[EdGeer] He is probably loading film on
[MikeArcher] yeah Ice, ask me something we haven't already discussed in the last 15 years. lol
[EdGeer] Type real slow
[Iceman] shooting pool
[EdGeer] What do you think the best shot is from the 2-bar?
[Iceman] billy
[EdGeer] If your a hack Like me
[EdGeer] LOL
[MikeArcher] he said what not who
[MikeArcher] :P
[MikeArcher] well, the best shot is pretty obviously the pull most of the time, but that assumes you can hit all the holes. :)
[MikeArcher] if not, you have to throw the kitchen sink at them.
[MikeArcher] depends on the zone really
[MikeArcher] some zones are much better for one shot over another
[MikeArcher] but most of the better players all do similar zones these days
[EdGeer] Do you consider a pull kick an extension of the Pull?
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[MikeArcher] yep - it is an option
[MikeArcher] a must have option for me. :)
[Iceman] 7 pull kick
[MikeArcher] yep
[EdGeer] ?
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[MikeArcher] I do square ones down the middle every once in a while
[EdGeer] WTF is a 7
[MikeArcher] rare though
[MikeArcher] cut back from past the goal
[MikeArcher] looks like a 7 drawn on the table if you follow the ball's path
[MikeArcher] ummm - you shoot one Ed. :P
[EdGeer] LOL
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[EdGeer] Thats funny never thought of it that way
[MikeArcher] see, you learned something tonight. :)
[EdGeer] Yep
[Iceman] i like my 7 push kick
[MikeArcher] lol
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[EdGeer] If you only have 30min a day to practise How would you devide your time on the table
[MikeArcher] I used to shoot that a loooong time ago.
[MikeArcher] Jack Whitworth used to try and do that past the goal....never hit it worth a crap but it was nasty when it went.
[MikeArcher] for me at this point it would be shooting for 20 minutes and five man for 10, since I would just need to keep the five man crisp.
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[MikeArcher] I think that is reasonable for most folks though - 10 minuts shooting off two rod, 10 minutes off three rod, and 10 minutes on the 5.
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[EdGeer] Brad are you going to contribute here?
[MikeArcher] you are not going to learn a whole lot, but you will at least keep things fresh.
[Iceman] If you started playing you think you could beat Rico
[EdGeer] He's playing warcraft with Torrez
[MikeArcher] wow - hadn't really thought about it. If I actually played some and got back into practice, I would say I probably have as good a chance as I ever did. Who knows what crazy tricks that guy has come up with since the last time I played him though - you never know.
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[MikeArcher] like I said earlier, I never killed him with blinding speed or anything, so that wouldn't be a factor. :P
[EdGeer] Do you plan on playing any events this year beside Texas State?
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[MikeArcher] probably not at this point. I might get crazy and go to the Bart O, and of course I will support anything that is in town that I can. Traveling for foos is a losing proposition for me these days, even if I do well, which is unliikely since I do not practice much any longer.
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[EdGeer] How about qualifying for Italy or the World Cup. Does that interest you at all?
[Iceman] Mike
[Iceman] Ed will sponser you, lol
[MikeArcher] interest me? Sure. I would love to see it all, and have a chance to go over there. However, I would have been hard pressed to qualify a few years ago when I was still playing. I think my chances these days are slim, especially against guys like Billy and Tony.
[EdGeer] Hello Charles
[bbtuna] hello
[bbtuna] has anyone asked mike about defense
[MikeArcher] not to mention I almost broke my damn wrist trying to shoot a pull on a bonzini at worlds last year. F that! :P
[EdGeer] LOL
[EdGeer] No you have the floor Tuna
[MikeArcher] not really, no.
[bbtuna] mike, i am inerested in 5 man defense
[bbtuna] which i think is one your strengths right
[MikeArcher] what would you like to know?
[MikeArcher] so they tell me - just don't ask the local guys. :)
[MikeArcher] modesty aside, yes, I do fairly well defensively on the five.
[bbtuna] well, i have read some things you have said but lets start with your general approach
[MikeArcher] I am always assuming when talking that we are talking about playing 3/5 matches. 2/3 doesn't really give you enough time to develop a good plan and is far more reactionary.
[EdGeer] Excuse Charles but he only has one finger on each hand
[bbtuna] agreed
[bbtuna] i have a bad key on this PC...the T in particular
[bbtuna] so shut up Ed :)
[MikeArcher] generally I start off with a slower defense, and most of the time that doesn't change. Start off with fairly obvious stops to see how the opponent reacts.
[MikeArcher] Are they having trouble hitting a certain pass, do they see something and jump for it immediatley, etc.
[bbtuna] do u have place you stop
[bbtuna] or places
[MikeArcher] I don't care what their passing percentage is at this point really, which is why I need 3/5. :)
[MikeArcher] I am learning at this point.
[bbtuna] like the wall, far off the wall, no mans land
[bbtuna] okay, makes sense
[MikeArcher] nothing fancy - normally wall or decently high off the wall to see what they do with it. I try and stay out of no man's land most of the time, as that does not give me good intel on what they can do other than not pass where you aren't supposed to pass anyway.
[bbtuna] well i have found that if i use no mans as a base it really messes some people up
[MikeArcher] that is the general approach - same as defense in goal or offense on the three....actuall pay attention to what your opponent is doing and learn from it.
[EdGeer] Where is this "No man's land" at?
[MikeArcher] it would be about an inch off the wall, Ed.
[bbtuna] becuase they have to hit a very tight wall or sharp brush to execute
[Will] and is high off the wall all the way to the top?
[bbtuna] ed, half inch or so off the wall is where I think of it
[MikeArcher] it depends on who you are playing, really. I am assuming a solid opponent that you already know can hit good passes. No man's land doesn't do much against them - it is more for lower level players that have not developed all of the mechanics yet and can get flustered by that position.
[MikeArcher] that would be the extreme (high off the wall). Normally would not pull five all the way to the near wall and expect to block much. :)
[bbtuna] i guess that is who i play against most of the time
[MikeArcher] hey, have to adapt to your opponent. :)
[bbtuna] so you start off baiting and seeing what they do
[MikeArcher] that is why rookies can give pros fits sometimes - they don't go "by the book" and can mess with you. :)
[bbtuna] when do you move into those positions
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[MikeArcher] I wouldn't really call it baiting, because I am not trying to jump into anything. I want to see them execute both directions well, and see how quickly they jump at one or the other. The first several "block attempts" I am not really trying to block so much as measure. Then the blocking really begins.
[bbtuna] i mean, when during the Offesnive players set up
[MikeArcher] depends on the player. Some like to toss and go, others hover a lot and/or re-toss. Toss and go means you need to be in place before they do anything, otherwise you have time.
[bbtuna] okay
[bbtuna] so for over types?
[bbtuna] hover
[EdGeer] So what is Frank E. a re-tosser?
[MikeArcher] part of the learning process - have to learn the opponent's "when" as well as their "where"
[MikeArcher] yes, Frank likes to toss several times to get a read
[EdGeer] Ice man a Hoverier
[EdGeer] Skip a Toss nad Go?
[EdGeer] and'
[MikeArcher] Ice hovers, but he doesn't toss as much as Frank does.
[bbtuna] this is true in reverse as well isn't it...meaning the when and the where
[Iceman] and chiper
[EdGeer] True
[bbtuna] when you are in offense
[MikeArcher] Skip...wow - been a while since I played him. Normally he was a toss and go as I recall - that guy was all power everywhere on the table. :P
[EdGeer] Your gonna love me man
[bbtuna] since it seems that most defenses have a spot or time they bail
[bbtuna] wall or lane
[MikeArcher] yes - the inverse is true for offense. Ideally you change your when as well as your where to throw off the defense that is getting a read on you.
[EdGeer] How would you clasify Murray?
[MikeArcher] correct - most folks are a lot of show, but end up bailing to one spot or another.
[MikeArcher] Murray was a mix actually - somewhere inbetween like I am. He did hovers and multiple tosses most of the time, but threw in toss and go here and there to keep you off balance.
[Will] so what is the hardest set of passes a person can use regularly to throw off a defense like this?
[EdGeer] Thats a great insight Mikey
[bbtuna] hold on Will, Mike is still giving the defense
[Will] k my bad
[bbtuna] after you get a read, what do you begin to do
[MikeArcher] well, alternating when and where on a standard brush can work. The stand still stick or lane tends to do well also.
[MikeArcher] once you have a read, you have to execute. Not much more to it than that. Then you are either right or wrong, and you adjust accordingly. I just assume you caught the pass if it made it through. :)
[darB_RST] ICEMAN!!!
[bbtuna] i am talking D
[EdGeer] Now he wakes up
[MikeArcher] ahhh - sorry
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[MikeArcher] once you have a read, the trick is to not give it away
[MikeArcher] on defense
[Iceman] yo
[bbtuna] not give away that you know you mean
[EdGeer] Otis from Arkansas"
[darB_RST] Sooooo-eeeeeeee
[MikeArcher] as in you have to make it LOOK like you do not have a read. Sell it like you did the last time, but you know where you are going to be when to make your block.
[Otis] Otis from Cali AKA Chad D.
[Iceman] wth lol
[darB_RST] Deliver anything good today?
[EdGeer] Hey Chad you have a Question for Mike?
[Iceman] dvd player
[darB_RST] Not that you look in any of the packages or anything.
[MikeArcher] that is why most of the time I do not move very quickly on defense - it is not hard to be where you want to be if you know the when and where. When you are flying blind - that is when all the flailing comes about.
[Iceman] all the time
[Otis] I am lurking for now
[bbtuna] so then it is straight bait...not reverse bait like when defending the 3 bar
[bbtuna] i suppose I am a guessin you do both
[MikeArcher] I am missing the concept of the reverse bait. I use bait everywhere on defense - same slower motions and same concepts in both places.
[EdGeer] Ok Will You have the next Question for m\Mike
[bbtuna] well, reverse bait to me is fake like you are going to bait but don't take away the bait hole
[MikeArcher] ahhh - ok. The answer to that is a definite yes. Just had not heard it called a reverse bait before. :)
[MikeArcher] always called it a fake around here. :)
[bbtuna] what do you call it
[bbtuna] okah
[bbtuna] k
[EdGeer] here is Wills Question "so what is the hardest set of passes a person can use regularly to throw off a defense like this?"
[Otis] I am always looking for Defensive concepts on the five
[Will] sorry my son just broke a cup had to go clean it
[Otis] When Mike is ready to move on
[MikeArcher] I answered that one above, Ed. Here it is again "well, alternating when and where on a standard brush can work. The stand still stick or lane tends to do well also."
[MikeArcher] however, to add to that, the defense I use is just a concept, so it generally applies to any set of passes.
[EdGeer] Mike was involved in a freak Foozing accident and only has 2 index fingers to type with
[MikeArcher] eh? I've typed more than anyone else here. :P
[bbtuna] how do you defend Fred 2 to 5
[bbtuna] what is with Ed and his comments on typing skills
[MikeArcher] honestly, I do the really obvious thing that no one else seems to want to do. I watched a match or two to see where that brush down across the middle actually goes, and always keep a man there. That pass is too quick to be adjusted - it goes the same place every time.
[MikeArcher] take away his freeby there, and then you just get into the basic lane/wall which comes down to timing and, of course, baiting. :)
[MikeArcher] because then he is looking again
[MikeArcher] not sure why people give him the down the middle brush over and over
[MikeArcher] other than they really don't know where it is going.
[bbtuna] and reverse bait
[bbtuna] :)
[MikeArcher] yep
[MikeArcher] ;)
[EdGeer] Fred is a Toss-n-go
[bbtuna] so do you take it away with the 31 or 32
[Will] what are a 31 and 32?
[darB_RST] Comes after 30
[Will] nevermind i got it...
[bbtuna] 3 bar nearest man to you is 31 middel guy is 32 etc
[Will] thx
[MikeArcher] the down the middle is definitely 32
[MikeArcher] everything else is 31
[Iceman] I came to practice tonight for the hofc but I'm playing pool with Rosita instead o la la
[MikeArcher] no tourny over there at skillman?
[bbtuna] it isn't popular, just something I picked up from Johnny Lott
[MikeArcher] never heard that before actually, but I like it.
[Will] three one or thirty one?
[bbtuna] that is what i was thinking after watching him and how people try and block him
[bbtuna] 31
[Iceman] at marsh
[bbtuna] same on the 5 bar
[MikeArcher] the funny thing is everyone tries to move so fast to deal with his speed. I just figured I could never beat or even match his speed, so why try? lol
[bbtuna] near man is 51, next 52 etc
[EdGeer] Great answer
[EdGeer] Well
[EdGeer] I have 1 last question
[MikeArcher] shoot
[bbtuna] don't mind Ed, he broke his finger in a freak typing accident
[EdGeer] Why is your nickname "Old Bear" Is that a pet name Ice gave you or something?
[EdGeer] LOL
[Iceman] not me
[darB_RST] Why'd you have to go there Ed?
[MikeArcher] ummm - I don't think anyone has ever called me that until now, Ed. :o
[Will] haha
[darB_RST] Wishful thinking perhaps?
[EdGeer] LOL
[darB_RST] Hmmmm....?
[Iceman] I thought Ed was the old bear
[darB_RST] Man-crush!
[EdGeer] Ok
[EdGeer] Maybe
[bbtuna] Mike, thanks for doing this...I don't know how long you were planning on staying but it is past my bed time
[MikeArcher] lol - I think it is time to wrap it up.
[MikeArcher] glad to do it - hope the info helped someone in some fashion. :)
[EdGeer] Thanks man
[Will] thanks for doing this mike
[darB_RST] Ice, you get into Vegas on Tuesday?
[Iceman] later homes
[bbtuna] this was good as long as I was on especially for a first ime
[MikeArcher] no problem guys - good luck to you.
[Iceman] yeah
[bbtuna] hope we can do it again
[bbtuna] thank you
[bbtuna] Ed and Mike
[EdGeer] I am goingto post the transcript for those who missed out
[MikeArcher] talk to you guys later
[darB_RST] Wed. for me.
[EdGeer] Laters
[bbtuna] lata