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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: Old Meister on March 22, 2008, 08:29:03 PM
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Virtual foos,,,, I set it up as long as it can be and I know I can go long but short is good, Oh yeah I like a dink pull angle and of course the short and middle. I might even go so long that I take it back angle from the near man. Hey we need a scenario to keep this place interesting and I want to hear what the professors would use against this "onslaught". ;)
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force the long dont give in to the shorts or dinks try to catch the long use your far two man on some longs Hell I dont know
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Run interference with my lead 2-bar man and brick you with my goalie. 8)
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So I set it up by starting with a front pin(far man) if you're going to front it Ed. Now I can use a Euro pin pull too , the straight(short) or the spray angle and I love to kick long from there. I do like the fakey pull from there too which is something I'll use against being fronted. I'm not trying to sound arrogant in asking these hypotheticals but honestly like hearing the different takes on different defense philosophies to a certain problem. I always fronted pushkicks but the weakness always was the push angle. I zoned pull kicks and did a half race part of the time.
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I would need to actually see the shot to decide how to defend it. I would need to see where the placement of your dink is, as well as the release point for the dinks. Are the long and middle square shots actually square, or do they spray a little. Do you slide the ball the full length available or do you bump the ball. Do you have any hitches (as many kick shooter do) when you go long. how smooth is the take-off? can you actually square the short or do you spray from short to middle when you execute the short? is the long really deadman or is it actually a 3/4 spray. Can I race the long? All of these things combines would determine which defense I would use. I would start off with a reverse defense covering the short and short-middle while wiggling the 2-bar to take away the big dot middle, then watch you shoot on me a couple of times looking for all of the aboved mentioned things, and adjust based on what I see.
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In all my years of playing foosball the most common question I hear after a demonstration is "How do you block that?" My answer has never changed. You have to put a MAN IN FRONT OF IT!
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reverse Defense, working with the 2 man just inside the Big dot working in toward the short keeping my men no more than a ball apart...this effectively takes all but the most blinding fast long away and makes you think short where I will play a bait defense trying to force you to hit the most difficult angles in the short game...basically it is a "long-to-short" defense...to keep things interesting I mix in 2 bar taking short away, a race version of this, and a cross-over defense made for kickers using both men on the 2 rod
the cross-over has been my best defense (I feel pretty good with it against Chris Dube) but the reverse I talked about is one a good goalie around here uses on Chris Dube and he probably blocks Chris better than anyone I have seen...if Chris is going to have success against him he has to hit perfect shorts and Chris has a very fast long (and all points in between)
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Its all in the quickness and experience.
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Bbtuna, the defense you describe is why I go to that euro-pin pull spray angle from the front pin position which is where I start the pull kick. I agree that that defense is the best as long as the short angles aren't effectively exploited but once those short holes are pounded it opens up the long.
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I have never seen a front toe starting on the 33 that I am concerned about...and just because you get a couple of angles, I won't be a believer that you can hit them all the time and I still think I can get in the shooters head baiting them for those holes
if the ball is pinned, trying to get a consistent quality long off of that is very hard...you have that chip thing but I am not afraid of that over the course of a match, again, i have never seen anyone who can hit that with tournament consistency enough to worry about it
if you have it pinned I take away the short and bait you long if I have any confidence that you might be able to hit that 33 to 32 chip thing ...if it is better than average I would probably use the two bar to move in and out of cutting off the short and baiting the long...I might throw that in a little just to make you think and guess timing but mainly if you have it pined I will take the short away and move inside out in a reverse defense...
I have not met or seen anyone on Tornado that can hit a tight #1 hole and a tight #2 hole on a chip angle and aren't much better with the drag...on other tables that allow accurate consistent angles, it might be different but I would have to set up a tight split hole and see you hit it from 3 different position, stationary and moving and then do the same with a real tight #1 hole like 17-18 out of 20 times at each position before I would become a believer and I would be willing to bet real money there is no one shooting on Tornado that can do that
so, basically, bring it on but remember, I get to see/face one of the best pull kicks in the game...now, saying all that, you would probably just slice me up like a hot knife through soft buddar
Chris Dube...one of the best pull kick shooters of all time
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2245/2364345978_3309aced9d.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2283/2363514775_4edd266391.jpg?v=0)
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Now that's what I like, Bbtuna. You always get me riled enough to go slam some shots on the table. You probably are right in what you say as that pin spray shot does take alot of practice to hit it at will, but that is what practice is for. As for the shot starting on a pin, I can set it static long and go for the standard set of shots in the process but I like the options from the pin, going fakey and all. As far as slicing anyone up like "hot budda" I truly don't have any idea how effective my game is. I'm basically a time capsule from the 70's who has gotten my game back plus learned the shots of today from Youtube and talking with you guys. I think I'm playing as well or better than I ever did but maybe I'll get totally schooled when I finally get some real competition. My situation is such that I have to travel around 60 miles one way to find a DYP tournament. I get up at 4:30am for work so staying up late and driving that far isn't an option. So I practice and talk to you and the others. I might truly be an "American Idol" dreamer, or not. I certainly wasn't when I stopped playing in the early 80's and I kinda got a feeling I would do ok now. ;)
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Is that you bbtuna? playing with Dube?
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no, that is Larry Finley the guy that blocks Dube well...I am as big as Dube is small...here you go
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2293/2366328869_fa2bf9bb1d.jpg?v=0)
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here is the best player in our area, the best in KS and MO...Joe never practices or plays any more because of life, you all know what I mean, and he is still in the top 25 players and if he could play and practice I think he would be in the top 5 very quickly...mad skills, child prodigy growing up and he is super nice
Joe wins 99% of every local draw he plays in no matter who he draws...Chris Dube is second best in our area and Joe's dad Kent is still a crafty player great 5...Joe's older brother, Chris Rhodes, is very good too but rarely comes out and then there is JP Brown but he is never here any more...of those left playing there is a group of us scrappy Rookie/semi unrated or near unrated types...me (unrated) Chris Traynor, Steve Tran, and Jeff Stark...i am am leaving people off but that is what happens when you start a list
Joe Rhodes - forward on the left (Chris Traynor playing goalie for him, rookie I only know by face playing goalie for Chris Dube)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2363514853_d54534910f.jpg?v=0)
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Well if I ever get to Kansas City I'm gonna look ya up big guy. It would be too much fun to play you. I couldn't say that will happen any time soon but who knows? Maybe there will be a tournament in the Northwest and you can return the favor. One of these days I'm going to do a road trip with foosball locations being the reason for the trip. When I see pictures of good players like that it really makes me want to get out and play. It's not in the cards around here.
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love to have you, we would make a time of it...lot of great people and good foosers here in town...i would take you for sure to the DYP and the Buzzard and get you juiced up with Chartruse
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Sounds like I'd have a good time but the term "juiced up with Chartruse" is throwing me a bit. If your talking wine, well being born and raised in Wisconsin, beer does just fine, micro brews preferably;)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartreuse_(liqueur)
this isn't something you can Drink all night, it is just something that adds a fun kick to the evening...it is 110 proof and so it has a kick just from that but there is something with those 130 herbs that makes this act differently than any other booze I have ever had and everyone I know who has tried it will tell you the same...fastest acting drink I have ever had and it will put a smile on your face and that is for real...
Chartreuse is a French liqueur composed of distilled alcohol flavored with 130 herbal extracts. The liqueur is named after the Grande Chartreuse monastery where it was formerly produced, located in the Chartreuse Mountains. The liquor is nowadays produced in a factory in the nearby town of Voiron under the supervision of monks from the monastery.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2393/2368168689_2b7cd3fdbe.jpg?v=0)
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Ahhh, they say new experience is the spice of life. It sounds like after a bottle of that stuff we would be the best players on this board no matter how bad we played. ;D Well if I get the chance to do a little south swing while on one of my trips from Oregon(where I live now) to Wisconsin, that is definitely something I would like to do. Maybe pick up some Osage orange bow wood while I'm in the area. I build wood long bows as a hobby.
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Thanks for the pics, bbtuna
I'm not sure I would have recognized Joe. Looks like he's there's a shadow on his face. Don't think he could do that last time I saw him.
Joe could be a really good player if he wasn't so hard headed.(not my words, his daddy's) ;)
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yea, no offense, but I don't think Kent has a good evaluation of Joe...Joe would work through every issue he needed to if he could comitt the time needed and could play with top goalies and not his dad all the time...kent is a good goalie, but there are many better and Joe is deserving of a top goalie
Joe has natural skill that is off the charts, like the best players...I won't get into my opinion about the dynamics in their family (because what I think does not mean a thing) but I think Joe's issue(s) have nothing to do with Joe's stubborness
Mark Walter left side from St Louis...looks kind of grummpy but he is a very jovial person...until you have to play him seriously, then he is all focus and intensity which grows the tighter things get
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2001/2369155520_0db716653e.jpg?v=0)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2086/2368329367_3f58b718d4.jpg?v=0)
oh and cheers - Chartreuse - the little green giant killer
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/2369166052_16e34baacd.jpg?v=0)
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Thanks for the picture of Kent. I was worried he might not be getting enough to eat. Obviously, I don't have to worry anymore. By the way, Kent made that statement when Joe was about 17 yrs old. He's equally proud of both boys.
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oh, no doubt...it is killing him that neither will go after it and totally sell out but I know he is proud to have to boys so accomplished and Joe's son has shown a lot of interest early on so maybe he will be a 3G fooser
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Dang Bbtuna, you got some expensive tastes. I bought a pint of that stuff and had to drink it just to kill the pain of how much it costs! Interesting libation,,,
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Old Meister, sorry for hijacking your thread. Tuna's pics led me astray, so you can blame it on him.
To get it back on track, I also shoot a pullkick. It's a throw back to my Dynamo days. I shoot it in two different styles, roll or closed hand, depending on what I think the goalie is doing. It's a secondary shot for me. I'd rather go with the pull because of consistancy. I shoot it a lot now because my pull has gotten so bad. I don't play enough to be able to pull the trigger on my pull so I have to resort to the pullkick more often. It's amazing how many people don't have a clue how to block one. Even some of the really good players (mostly the ones who rarely play goalie) I find that when I'm not shooting the pullkick well, everything goes to the middle and I have to really slow it down to be able hit the holes. The long goes middle, the short goes middle, but at least the middle goes middle.
The good news is I play goalie most of the time, so it's a non-issue for me. There, you can have your thread back. ;D
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I was there the year Chris and his partner won the Worlds in novice doubles. He is a true champion. Reggie was so happy, he had a smile from ear to ear.
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here is the best player in our area, the best in KS and MO...Joe never practices or plays any more because of life, you all know what I mean, and he is still in the top 25 players and if he could play and practice I think he would be in the top 5 very quickly...mad skills, child prodigy growing up and he is super nice
Joe wins 99% of every local draw he plays in no matter who he draws...Chris Dube is second best in our area and Joe's dad Kent is still a crafty player great 5...Joe's older brother, Chris Rhodes, is very good too but rarely comes out and then there is JP Brown but he is never here any more...of those left playing there is a group of us scrappy Rookie/semi unrated or near unrated types...me (unrated) Chris Traynor, Steve Tran, and Jeff Stark...i am am leaving people off but that is what happens when you start a list
Joe Rhodes - forward on the left (Chris Traynor playing goalie for him, rookie I only know by face playing goalie for Chris Dube)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2363514853_d54534910f.jpg?v=0)
Yeah, Joe's an ok player. I've seen a lot better though.........lol. Just kidding. Back in I think 93, he and I teamed up in 3500 limited at the US Open set up by his Dad. I think he may have been 16 at the time. Although it is not considered a major event, it was my first event win "at a Major". It was pretty cool, me and this KID just won an event at a Major. Something I'll always remember.
Something else I'll always remember. The most intense, most exciting, most fun in an Open doubles match was against pull kicker Chris Dube. I and Charles Britt locked horns against Dube and Merv Srok at the Masters in Atlanta. Whenever I see Dube, we still talk about that match. Oh yeah, Charles and I won.
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Put one man in front of the ball to block it and put another man in the rebound spot to block the slop. Then be ready to jiggle and waggle for the re-rebound.
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I will anticipate when your shot will begin, reach into my pocket for a handful of beach sand, throw it in your eyes. While you recover, I will move the ball from your three bar to my two bar.
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I can't believe you guys resurrected this from the dead,,,