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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: MR.STEVE on July 27, 2008, 10:02:14 AM
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Oh yes we can my old style has taken on a new look tic tac passes a euro pin that is not wearing me out to shoot all day plus no stress in a match .We are 50 years young and will set new standards for us AARP members, And do we get a discount in Kentucky. LOL ...I need a beginer partner for Doubles..
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Oh how I wish I could come and partner with you. As another +50 "beginner" I think we could have a lot of fun. I know what you mean about mixing the old with the new as well as the Europins. I like to shake a pin between the 1 and 2 dot and pull a deadman with it or the tweener, either straight in or back angle. For the straight in I'll either reverse a short push, reach down for a min- snake, side push kick or little devious mini moves that may or may not work;)
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I think our style is the same a quick split ,a reverse, dead bar pull side and a ace in the hole is a pull to the near man and cut it in the corner it goes it fast ..
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I hear ya! I wonder how it is that this sequence appeals to the 70's TS player. I mean I can do the pull series with a lot of confidence and, yeah, the snake, but the Euro just seems the ticket for satisfaction. Do you do a reversal front pin pull kick >middle to near man? Maybe that is what you were talking about.
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Oh yes we can my old style has taken on a new look tic tac passes a euro pin that is not wearing me out to shoot all day plus no stress in a match.
Interesting, what you say about no stress... My buddy Ron K is in our timestream and has switched to a modified frontpin palmroll (the other Euro style, vs the German closed hand one) and found it really minimized all of the old pain & stresses of the oldschool push and pull series. I have no problem at all with my pulls or snakes, too, like O'Meister, but this openhand Euro seems to leave my wrist alone, which is why I can always resort to a tictac 3bar series into a quickset pullkick.
Also, Ron had the typical problem of not being able to naturally hit a deadbar or better push side, so he started by rolling off the pin into a quickset push palm roll, but this time starting AND SHOOTING the push with the ball and toe still way out in front of the rod. Jeeze! I wish I'd realized how fast and accurate that part of the push palmroll was! Compared to the mentally debilitating prospect of practicing to get a Euro push takeoff.
Even on the pull side... foregoing the backroll towards the rod but actually rolling it like a snake shot "pitch" (parallel to the rod) makes it a monstrous shot! And no inside wrist injuries, and the extra speed to hit that ball out in front is easy to generate!
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Interesting, what you say about no stress... My buddy Ron K is in our timestream and has switched to a modified frontpin palmroll (the other Euro style, vs the German closed hand one)
The Euro Pin is ALWAYS executed using a palm roll. No one shoots it closed handed in Germany. At least no one I've seen so far...
so he started by rolling off the pin into a quickset push palm roll, but this time starting AND SHOOTING the push with the ball and toe still way out in front of the rod.
That's the way it's done! Always keep the ball perfectly parallel to the rod, and don't start the backswing before the man reaches the hole - very important!
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Yes the back swing is very short and I push back into it for that little angle back the push side for me is a fake pull drop in to a P roll push, ;) I cant get the toss and a quick snap off just a push. The no stress comes from all areas stance grip and even if a shot gets blocked you just set them up for a fake of some sort. The one shot that works well off the reverse is to pull drop down dead center of goal is if you were doing a push stop hit it straight in its a great apponet crusher...
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The one shot that works well off the reverse is to pull drop down dead center of goal is if you were doing a push stop hit it straight in its a great apponet crusher...
Yeah! I have to try that fake!
The Euro Pin is ALWAYS executed using a palm roll. No one shoots it closed handed in Germany. At least no one I've seen so far...
1995,1996,1997,1998 Worlds in Dallas-FtWorth .. I saw Dieter Thiele from the Lowen Tour (back then?) shoot closed hand frontpins on Tornados all week, and most of his compatriots. Maybe the P4P et al with other newer tables encourage the palm roll more? Of course that was a decade ago...
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1995,1996,1997,1998 Worlds in Dallas-FtWorth .. I saw Dieter Thiele from the Lowen Tour (back then?) shoot closed hand frontpins on Tornados all week, and most of his compatriots. Maybe the P4P et al with other newer tables encourage the palm roll more? Of course that was a decade ago...
Hm... I'd be tempted to doubt your judgement if you didn't sound like you know what you are saying. Nevertheless I find your observation quite surprising because Dieter Thiele was one of the main ambassadors for the palm roll Euro Pin. Even today, there are still videos on his website in which he explains the palm roll. (http://www.tischfussball-thiele.de/ - Go to the Clip that's called "3er-Reihe")
Whatever, I can assure you that today, no one on the P4P tour shoots a closed handed Euro Pin. Some guys (a very small minority) execute the lateral movement with their hands closed, but right before the man reaches the hole they quickly open their hands to do the palm roll.
The whole point about the Euro is the palm roll. It reduces the challenges of coordination and makes it so much easier to shoot the shot with power and speed while minimizing the strain for the body parts involved.
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Hm... I'd be tempted to doubt your judgement if you didn't sound like you know what you are saying. Nevertheless I find your observation quite surprising because Dieter Thiele was one of the main ambassadors for the palm roll Euro Pin. Even today, there are still videos on his website in which he explains the palm roll. (http://www.tischfussball-thiele.de/ - Go to the Clip that's called "3er-Reihe")
I understand... the palmrolls started showing up after 94/95 when Terry Moore and his rollover started pushing aside the old "pullshooting" guard, of which he was one, too. Don't know if it was the handle or just the need for a shot with as much volume and power. The ease with which the early rollover adopters blasted shots must have affected the Germans, Austrians, Brits and other players from Europe and the "Low Countries".
I do remember quite a while before that in 1980-81 going back for a visit to South London, Frankfurt-am-Main and Belgium (Ostend?) and other cities, where I saw a lot more closed hand (wrist snap) frontpins in Kicker, although there were quite some palm rollers already. That's almost 3 decades ago!
I remember finally having adjusted by then to the seemingly huge MillionDollar TS browntop handles and then having major difficulty there with getting my old "seesaw" motion on the middle 3man. They still had the cork balls and non-shiny looking metal "pinballs" on the hard rubber surfaces.
Come to think of it, the continental players also shot "sort of" rollovers with a closed hand. My friend Tony Caruso, who used to be the Tornado purveyor in Buenos Aires before moving and taking over a trucking business in Ft. Lauderdale/Miami, and a good friend of Rico's, still does that shot.. kinda like a "flip" but much more violent, where you snap the frontpin into what is a continuous rollover, but doing it with the inside of a closed hand. Usually a straight or to either side of a defender, done off a walking dribble, where the shot can be timed or not even covered.
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How foosball.com can help me in my game? :-X
___________________________________________
Allen
Indiana Treatment Centers (http://"http://www.treatmentcenters.org/indiana"rel="dofollow")
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How foosball.com can help me in my game? :-X
___________________________________________
Allen
Indiana Treatment Centers (http://"http://www.treatmentcenters.org/indiana"rel="dofollow")
If you're asking, "How can foosball.com help?" or making a statement ,"Oh how foosball.com can help me!"
This site is loaded with people in the know as well as a few of us old hackers and some beginners and that is the beauty of it. If you need help with something in your game just post your problem and you'll get advice, most of it sound, some of it truly excellent.
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Allen,
What you need to know about this site is that you have Championship foosball players on here giving advice. We're talking active US and World Champions. Lots of them. You also have master level players from years past - an incredible resource.
I can think of no other sport/game where you have access to this level of knowledge. It's like having your golf questions answered by Tiger Woods, Jack Nicklaus, etc. They helped me get a foosball table for my home and their advice was spot on. Although I am basically a good ex-college player with no tour aspirations, I read this site daily because it usually amusing and always informative.
Good luck,
ClearScreen
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1995,1996,1997,1998 Worlds in Dallas-FtWorth .. I saw Dieter Thiele from the Lowen Tour (back then?) shoot closed hand frontpins on Tornados all week, and most of his compatriots. Maybe the P4P et al with other newer tables encourage the palm roll more? Of course that was a decade ago...
I posted the question for how long the palm roll has been around on a German message board, and longtime pro master Uli Stoepel assured me of the fact that Dieter Thiele and other European pro masters had been using it at least since the late 70s - on the Loewen table as well as on the Tornado. I'm not sure what you saw back then, but it couldn't possibly have been a closed handed Euro Pin.
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We used palm shots in the mid 70"s in the US. Bankshots certainly came off palm shots, that was the beauty of it. Super Singles, 1977 in Minneapolis, a new Porche Targa was won by Doug Fury(sp), the final shot was a back pin pull bank shot from the middle on the 2 rod. The hard push and pull kicks as well as push and pulls were palm shots. Sure you could do them close handed(wrist shots) but the palm shot was in vogue and people were winning with them.
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That web sight that tisch fussball is great I dont roll my hand that much , but I had a lot of trouble with my euro pin in Ky. my stroke was lost could`nt see holes I was a mess I switshed to a back pin and won a couple of games the back pin worked great easy to handle .the heaver rods seem to work well with that shot,Anyway when I did manage to stroke a few euros they cracked pretty good. I think the pull shooters will come out on top with these rods...
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That web sight that tisch fussball is great I dont roll my hand that much , but I had a lot of trouble with my euro pin in Ky. my stroke was lost could`nt see holes I was a mess I switshed to a back pin and won a couple of games the back pin worked great easy to handle .the heaver rods seem to work well with that shot,Anyway when I did manage to stroke a few euros they cracked pretty good. I think the pull shooters will come out on top with these rods...
You just had the understandable problem of not playing on the Warrior for a month or so, like several players did. Mario Ariganello's snake, which is a "stroke-back" style that goes past either post and comes back for a long (like a "7" in a pull or push or pullkick) as well as his use of hitting slight hole angles in the middles really helped him hurt goalkeepers.
As for pull shooters, those who have the "7" naturally, like TMac, would definitely have no problem, especially if they were able to practice and get the feel of the play beforehand. And those who didn't shoot very square pulls or pullkicks but a standard (nonpro level) release at the 3/4 to the long just gagged. Those who shot the rollovers weren't hurt that much, especially those who like control for picking holes. That's what I saw at the highest levels from the videos.
If you didn't have the equivalent of a natural sidewinder pitch thrown way off center to come back in to the outside edge of the smaller strike zone, the "7", you had to live with picking holes or catching a big hole on either side.