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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: Rob Woodley on January 30, 2009, 11:09:51 AM
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Hi from Rob,I am in the process of buying a new tornado plainum edition.Is there any build dates or problems with any of the tables like they had with the 3000i..e warped playing field.Any info much appreciated thanks Rob
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Rob,
what table are you talking about? can you provide a link, I don't know anything about a Platinum edition Tornado
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Not sure how to do a link but it is on the tornado web site under coin op table or just search tornado platinum edition foosball table
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just paste it in your reply
http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/valley_dynamo/tornado/foosball.html
I don't see it on this site
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scroll down in this section to update kit available and the picture on the front of the manual is the platinum edition.It is the same as the t 3000 but with coin op.
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http://www.vdlp.net/tornado/Platinumtouredition.asp here is the link to the site.
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that is the new T3000, what I call the full meal deal with all the changes (minus the 1 man goalie which is coming unless something unusal happens)
new men, new bearings, new side strips
supposed to have the warped surface issue taken care of which was an random issue on the late model T2000's however, none of these tables have actually shipped yet that I know of
the only ones in existance are in a bar in TX and the people there say they are the best table Tornado has ever made
the current new ball is the dark red ball introduced for the first time at ITSF Worlds in France earlier in the month but there is a lot of negative feedback on the design so this may change
the rest of it I believe is here to stay unless they improve the rods which I think are the weakness of the table
Tornado had used the Merkel heat-treated rod during most of the Grey Marble runs but quit him because the rod was too expensive and went with an imported heat-treated rod which wasn't as good but was still better than their previous non-heat-treated rods of the past
however, it is my understanding that this current model is not using that rod and so there have been some complaints of some rods bending but it isn't an absolute every table thing
I don't know when this table will be actually avaible, fully assembled as is...right now they still seem to be shipping the latest model T2000 and giving a "kit" to bring it up to the new T3000 level...if this is the case, you are still dealing with some warped tops which are part of the late T2000 runs
if you plan on getting one of the new ones, you will have to do some serious homework and get someone to guarentee that if the surface is warped they will replace the entire table
we have a warped surface late model T2000 in our favorite bar and Tornado agree to replace the surface but that just means shipping a new surface and someone else figuring out how to but it in correctly...I don't think this is acceptable
hope that helps
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They have a T 3000 at the bar I normally go to and I personally have not found anything wrong with it... In fact I will be buying in the near future as I love the way it plays. I dont see any nagatives so far on it. Not sure if this helps, but I love it..
Have a great foosing day
~~Yags~~
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Yags,
where do you play? does this table have the new men with the cross-hatch that goes 3/4 of the way up the face and with a different edge? Does it have the new clear side-strips? Does it have the plastic handles? Does it have the newer Large Logo set on the outside? Does it have the new thinner split bearings?
if it doesn't have all these things, it is not a T3000
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The one they have is exactly the one that rob is talking about. The one in the picture http://www.vdlp.net/tornado/Platinumtouredition.asp
~~Yags~~
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The dealer I am buying it from assures me this is a platinum edition,so it should be the full meal deal.I hope.
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Make sure it has the clear side strips. It is a huge improvement and it is easy to make sure that it is the t3000 because no other table tornado has ever made had clear side strips.
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check ii out personally before dropping that kind of coin on the thing because you will be paying premimum if you buy it from a dealer - some of them are either hustling or being hustled so better be safe than sorry
if you can wait you will save some money to buy a tournament used one after Tornado's big tourny in March
on the other hand, if it is the right table, and you have the money, go for it...just check the playing surface to ensure it is level before walking with the table
Yags,
where is the table and you still need to answer the questions...I only say this because there are T2000 with the big logos and score keepers and not the new men, handles, bearings, and especially clear strips
if this table is actually shipping, I would really really like to know about it because this is sort of my thing
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It doesnt have the clear strips. It has wooden handles. I am not sure on the bearings. I honestly didnt look at it that closely. And I'm not sure what your talking about on the men with the cross hatch.. Is that the foot your talking about?
I will say that it plays great and I can back pin and front pin the ball great.. I probably still didnt answer your questions. But I tried :)
Happy Foosing
~~Yags~~
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I am in Canada,but the tables you are talking about are the 3000,this is being sold as a coin op which is not a 3000 but probably has the same specs,I do not know if the coin ops are being marketed differently,I guess I will find out I will keep you posted,thanks for your input it is much appreceated.Rob
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Yags,
that is for sure NOT a T3000 - that is a T2000 ... not all of them have warped playing surface...I play on one, and am going to play on it tonight, which is warped but I have a friend who has basically the same table, the one you describe, and the surface is not warped and it is great play...nothing wrong with this table as long as the surface isn't warped
the cross-hatch is the on the front of the man...on the old design man, there are grooves on the foot...on the back they go back and forth in a plaid pattern but on the front, it only goes half way up and the other half only has grooves in one direction (the top half)
the new foot is most easily seen by this change of the cross-hatch but it is not the only change...the front edge of the man is different...i wont' bore you with the details right now but trust me, if you have wooden handles and the table is more than a month old, you have a T2000
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Rob,
check it closely, see what it is, see what they tell you and what kind of price before you buy and come back and talk to me
have a great weekend
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I have a tournament-used T-2000 and it plays fantastic. No warped surface as it was shipped right after a tournament. It was just set up and maintained for demanding players who certainly know how to complain when things aren't perfect (just read this and other foosball forums for proof of that). I set it up myself in less than an hour and use it all the time - no problems at all.
I would definitely recommend buying a tourney-used table. They are cheaper and they have already been set up and adjusted. As a non-tourney player, I am clearly not as demanding as a top-level competitive player, but this thing is built like a tank and will outlast me.
My only real change was to knock out the plugs in the serving holes which is really a personal preference from when I played in college and my kids love the idea of serving through the hole instead of placing the ball on their 5-rod. Why did they change this anyway? It takes some skill and practice to serve it your 5-rod.
I am getting the upgrade package when it is available because I would like to change out the handles and some other things and the price is right for what you get.
Just my two cents.
Good luck.
ClearScreen
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So tornado have not yet released any t 3000 with all the updates,so your saying that they are probably not available platinum edition or not.Tornado show a part number for this table,if I orderd one under this number would I be getting the new table or could it still be an old build.
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I think the problem with tornado is they made two many changes in the last 5 years i think what there saying on these posts is that yes theres 2 type
of t 3000 out there one being put out this last year silver 3 man goalie
new man i think and the newest is also silver with clear side strips down the side single man goalie our three man red ball this table has yet to go out . i never seen eather and could be all wet but if it was me i would wate
untell later to buy
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no, only 1 table has the new man and side strips and that is a T3000...the question is can it be purchased in its completed form
maybe, I am not certain, I do not have that confirmed yet...I will check around and see what I can find out
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Latest information,I spoke to Paul the guy who is supplying my table.He said he now knows that the table he sent me is not the latest and greatest so he is shipping it back no cost to me.he did not know that Tornado where advertising a new tour edition table.He contacted Tornado and the newtables will not be shipped untill March.He is going to get it shipped directly to me from Tornado.I cant wait.You guys were right,thanks Rob
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if you are buying like this you are paying top dollar which I think is great if you can afford it...however, three things...
first, if you don't mind me asking, how much? even if you are willing to pay, you shouldn't get ripped off
second, is shipping included, if not how much is that
third, make sure he says he will take the table back if it has a warped surface and not just replace the surface because that is a pain to you for their issue...they should do a quality check before shipping, if they don't, they need to eat shipping both directions
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Hey Rob, i'm in canada too, edmonton to be exact. Where are you located? PM me with details if you want or just post here, i have a fair amount of experience buying tables (having bought 3 myself in the last year) and I have contacts at both valley and there vendor that sells tornado's here in alberta. which company are you going through? Is it important to you to have the t3000, or will the t2000 with all the decals and old handles, 3 man goalie, etc. be good enough? You can always get the upgrade kit later.
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the upgrade kit is an additional $200 and then you are stuck with 30 men 16 split bearing sets you don't need and you have to change the side strips yourself
I am glad you are there to help but the T2000 verses the T3000 is what most of this thread has been about
stickers and such are nothing, what counts are the bearings, men, and side-strips
and either way, if and when Tornado goes to one man goalie full time on all models, it will be another $40 for the conversion kit
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If you can get a T2000 for $1600 as opposed to a T3000 for $2000 then get the upgrade it would save money and get a table in a guys house quicker, I bought a T2000 when I already knew about the upgrade kit, and to be honest I probably wont even get the upgrade because its not too different. If you are the best on a tornado you are the best on tornado, to me the logo's make as much of a difference as anything else because it makes the table look cool. 1 man goalie 3 man goalie it doesn't change much. the side strips are noticable, but the bearings and men are virtually the same for how it feels.
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I am in Regina,I am surprised to hear that they would still be selling modified t 2000.I want the t 3000 but in the coin op version which is the platinum tour edition.Personally I prefere the 3 man goalie so I hope I get that.If the decide on the one man its not a big concern.I am dealing with Gilchrist Vending in Toronto and they have been really good with me.They have been in business a long time and I have dealt with them before,no compaints but I would like to make sure I get the latest table.Price is not the biggest issue but I dont want to get ripped off.Itwould be a rip of If I dont get the table I want.If you have an inside man at Tornado any info would be much appreciated.I have phoned all 3 sales managers but only get an anserwer machine,but this is an interesting topic thanks Rob
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rob, PM me the price and delivery charges if you don't want to share them in public
it is important that they treat you right, it is important that you don't pay too much, and it is important they make sure your table doesn't have a warped top in addition to getting the right table and if it does have a warped surface that they agree, BEFORE the sale is made, that they will replace the entire table, not just the surface, if the playing surface isn't completely level
I do not think any table will be shipping as a 1 man any time soon, at best they would send the kit but there is no table designed with ramps built in yet so you shouldn't get that under any circumstances
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PM me your email address and I will send you a couple of contacts.
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according to the Tornado website, the T3000 is the split top home model and they are calling the coin op version the Platinum Tour Edition but they are the same table minus the coin op
I spoke with Charles McIntosh who is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, distributor of Tornado coin ops in the country and he has been supplying tournament tables for over 20 years
he did not know that Tornado was calling the coin op the Platinum but there is nothing different about the table
he has the new coin op T3000 available right now with all the changes except the clear strips and new handles...he can supply the clear strips with the table but the handles are not yet available but will be soon - so it has the new bearings and men, score markers, stickers etc
a couple of things...he has one or two of these right now and more coming toward the end of the month but none of the T3000 have been used for tournaments yet so he doesn't have any "tournament used" until after the the Maryland State tournament
he will however sell you a brand new one for the same price as a tournament if you want to buy now...shipping to Canada would run $190 to $230ish depending on where in Canada it is going (add $40 if you want residential delivery)
outside of the shipping part, the price on the table is VERY good...shipping isn't bad, he charges exactly what it costs him this is not an area he tries to make money and he has good shipping relationships/deals with carriors because he ships so much
couple of other things...
Pink balls are no longer available only the new redder ones
Clear side strips for those who want them will be around $12 a pair he just got them in and they aren't priced yet, the old strips were $12.50 and the new ones will likely be something less
New men are available
New bearings are sold out but he will have more shortly
and last but for sure not least
charles has Merkel heat-treated 2 and 5 rods available ... no more 3 bars to be found but even if you only replaced your 2 rod on existing tables, that is a big improvement
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oh, one more super important note...there are still warped surfaces mixed in with these tables so if you are buying a new table, anyone, from anyone, you need to make sure they guarantee it is level BEFORE they ship it…this means they need to check it and I would insist that you get it in writing that if you don’t get a level playing surface that they will pay shipping both ways on the table until you get one that is right…this way you can be sure they will ship it right the first time
no idea when this will be addressed permanently but it is a very important element to buying a late model T2000 or the current T3000
I haven’t played with the new men or side-strips but I have played on the T2000 without those and it plays super good…when it is level…when it isn’t, it is very frustrating
The men and side strips will only enhance the quality of play I am certain
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I am amazed that Tornado is still selling there premium table with warped playing fields,this casts a really bad light on the company and cant belive they have not addressed this concern.If I purchased a new table from Tornado it could still have a warped field.May be I should buy a Warrior table for half the price.No wonder Tornado are having problems with quality issues like that.How can you tell the Merkel rods from the others.Rob
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The cost of the table was $1550 canadian and $145 shipping. I am sure the new table will be more but he does not have the price yet.He thinks it will not be much more.My email address is robdarla@hotmail.com Iwant the new table to have all the latest specs.It seems crazy to spend money on a brand new table and then have to modify it.
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okay Rob, don't fret my friend...you are right and Tornado has some issues but none that can't be addressed...with all its issues, it is still the best made table in the world
I totally love playing on Warrior, but it isn't half as well built, as Tornado...it may be some day but not now and not for a while and so right now I can not reccomend it with a good conscience
you can get them to guarantee the surface...Tornado is standing behind any complaints and replacing the surface but rather than have to do that, just make sure the table is checked and guaranteed BEFORE it ships and get it in writing
if you go with Charles I can help with this
now, your Canada pricing comes out better than Charles' on the current T2000 model compared to Charles' T3000...I mean $1500 Canadian is $1200 US and of course your shipping is much less
so, timing is the key, if you want to wait for what I call the "Full Meal Deal" that your distributor says he can get, then fine but I would make sure you had all kinds of guarantees before agreeing to that - especially if they are saying they would have it drop shipped direct to you...at that point I would question if the surface has been checked
its just me but I think they should check every table and not ship any tables unless they are right but I am not corporate and am not struggling in the current business climate
let me know if I can help
backpinrules@yahoo.com
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Sorry about my little rant there,I was talking crazy,but it is frustrating,I just sold my marble table so I have no table at the moment.I will probably wait a while but I would be interested in dealing with your buddy if he can guarantee the table I want.He is very knowledgeble about Tornado tables.Like I said money is not the main issue ,thanks for taking time out to help me,it is much appreciated
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i bought my table in november from south carolina. it was from the worlds in las vegas. i am getting a free update kit. it had some minor scratches and i saved an extra 150.00. the total price was 1300 including shipping. the guy i bought it from said it was identical to the platinum edition once the update kit was installed. it is in excellent condition with no issues.
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Rob,
that price on a new table isn't a normal permanent price so if you want to take advantage of it I think now is the time...this sounds like a sales push and I really hate that sort of thing so I want you to know it that is NOT what it is...I am for you getting what you want when you want it, I mean more I wasn't publishing a permanent price for him....I really don't know, except that he was pricing it like that to help you make a decision...doesn't mean he wouldn't again and you have said money isn't that big a deal so it may be nothing but I wanted to be fair to him and you
i am going to pull that price off the thread because it really shouldn't be "published" I have found out since I put it up
I am not sure there is an advantage for you to wait because there is no indication of when the surface issue will be permanently resolved
as bubbyman said if you get a level table, it is all rockem sockem...I have a buddy with a Fridge late Model T2000 which has a perfect surface and it is a really nice table and we play one that is even a later run at our local pub which is super minus the surface which Tornado has already agreed to replace
too much to discuss via threads alone so lets hook up via email and phone when you are ready to buy, I will help you as I can including talking to Charles' about details
tuna
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Tuna I will give you a call.I guess I am ready to buy as soon as I can be sure I am going to get exactly what I want.A straight table with all the new updates including the clear side strips in a Platinum Tour Edition which is a coin op,you would not think it would be that difficult to spend $2000 would you.The guy I am dealing with in Toronto is away for a week so I will give him a call then.He has been fair with me so I should touch base with him befor I decide to shop with Charles.ps how can you tell the merkel rods apart from the standed heat treated ones they install now, and is merkel the name of the american company that manafactures them,are they going to make more thanks Rob
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Merkel is the person's last name who makes them...just a fooser...there is a dot at the handle end of the rod, well, like a divit...I will get you more detail tomorrow...he is not making them any more because he does it on the side and can't afford to do without a large number of them to justify...
here is what he says about the cost and process...
I can only do so much with the rod price. The raw tube is $2.63 per foot & plating each rod is $3.50. If you do the math I'm already at $14.02 & these are just the costs I can't control. I still have to straighten, strengthen, cut it, drill it, run it through a centerless grinder 3 times. Then I have to freight them to the plating co and back and then polish and inspect.
I'm giving these away at $20.00 to $23.00 just to try and make the deal.
It's hard to compete when your Chinese competitor can sell a finished rod for less then what I can buy the raw material for.
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do you have merkels email address tuna?
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So he used to make these in a high volume for Tornado,or just on an individual basis as people needed.Would be interesting to find out how many orders he needs to make it viable for him to manafacture a batch
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he made them for Tornado then Tornado dropped him for a imported version which is better than their old rod but nothing as good as his...he goes on in this same post to say he could cut costs but that means and inferior product
warrior has been toying with using them and if they do, they will become available again but that is up in the air right now because it would add a serious price increase to the Warrior table
i have played on the warrior with Merkel rods and it is smooth, light, and very fast and it seems like most players want them but that doesn't mean they would actually pay the $200 increase...I mean, people won't pay full price for them the way it is - arguement would be they might with the improved rods but I don't think so unless they address the other build quality issues, I think the players will continue to win them and buy tables that have been won
i do not have Merkels address but you might be able to get it from the other forum but he has been asked a number of times about making them apart form T or W using them and he says he can't afford to do it
Charles McIntosh can still get the 2 bar and 5 bar left over from previous production and you could do that and then get the new imported heat-treated for your 3 rod
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I am told Tor has a ton of them still in stock even after more than 1 1/2 years of not ordering them but they are mixed with the new ones - I think I heard the number was somewhere near 11k
anyway, if you decide to order them you will need to talk to Charles personally so he can hand pick them otherwise you will just get the random selection which may or may not be Merkel
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I was wondering what charles would charge me for a new table when they are released and have him install a complete set of merkel rods.That would be like the Holy Grail of foosball tables.Do you think that would be something he would be interested in doing and how much would he charge.He could e mail me with a price or I could phone him.
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only 2 rod and 5 rod are available with Merkel right now and he occasionally runs accross a goalie but he hasn't seen a 3 rod in a very long time
so, i would imagine he would be willing to change the 2 and 5 rod out but that would mean taking all the men off and replacing them and I have no idea what he would charge for that...how much would you charge if the shoe was on the other foot?
might be cheaper just to buy the rods and make the change yourself and have the others as back ups
I don't know how long you are willing to wait, but if you are planning on March time-frame I will not believe Tornado is shipping the 100% changed model (not including ramps of course) until after it is confirmed by multiple sources - this table was supposed to be out last year and should have already been shipping this year several times but it isn't out yet...it is just like the "kits" lots of smoke and no fire
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i was only asking because i sell pipe and tube for a living and I was going to see if i could help him out with raw material costs so he can lower his price on his offer to warrior.
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I
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I would be better off ordering a full set of rods from Merkel and installing them myself.I will have to find out what he would charge for a custom set.Accordind to the latest from Tornado they will be shipping tables in March,maybe I will try phoning again and see if I can find anything out.
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Will,
I didn't mean to put you off, by all means, go after him if you think you may be able to help because everyone in tournament foosball would love to able to have these rods available
rob,
full sets are NOT available
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Tuna could you email his telephone number or email address to me and I will contact him about his foosball rods,I contacted Tornado again and left a message,if they get in touch with me I will let you know.
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sorry, Full rod sets NOT available as stated in earlier emails
charles M can be found at
http://www.tornadofoosball.com/
contact information at bottom of the page
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Do you have Merkels phone number or email address so I can get in direct contact with him
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I do not...you may be able to get it posting on the other mssg board because he is on there fairly regularly and his name on the board is Merkel...you can do a thread and leave him a personal message
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I cant find any information on Merkel.I presume his first name is John as there are some references to a John Merkel but unable to find any contact information.I will keep trying.Anybody else interested in getting some custom made Merkel rods.If so answer on this post.
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Rob,
he has been asked to do them before by players and he said he couldn't do it with the small number players would order here and there
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I just received a call from Cheryl the international sales rep at Tornado,she told me that the T 3000 and the Platinum Tour Edition tables are being produced right now.The first ones are going to the competition in March and then they will start filling orders as they receive them.They all ready have lots of requests for this table so if any body wants one in the near future they should get there order in with there local dealer.The new table has all the updates including the clear strips.She said they have addressed the problem with the warped fields at it is not an issue any more.She has already recived the order from my guy in Toronto,thats my table and I should be one of the first to receive the new tables so everything is looking good.No word on the price yet but I will keep you posted, thanks for your help and a special thanks to Tuna for taking the time to reply to me so many times.If I hear anything new I will let you know.I am sure there are a lot of interested people out there,Rob
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Can anyone verify ... for sure ... if these tables can be ordered with the optional Taj Teak or Jewel Mahogany laminates?
These laminates were certainly an option on the previous T2000 tables. Also, these laminates ARE listed in the 2009 parts breakdown found here :
http://www.valley-dynamo.com/valley/partsandservice.asp#5
I know Tornado doesn't do full-custom finishes anymore, but what about these two choices in the 2009 parts list?
I love the table :) but I just can't embrace that silver finish :(
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Can anyone verify ... for sure ... if these tables can be ordered with the optional Taj Teak or Jewel Mahogany laminates?
These laminates were certainly an option on the previous T2000 tables. Also, these laminates ARE listed in the 2009 parts breakdown found here :
http://www.valley-dynamo.com/valley/partsandservice.asp#5
I know Tornado doesn't do full-custom finishes anymore, but what about these two choices in the 2009 parts list?
I love the table :) but I just can't embrace that silver finish :(
Well, I just heard back from Tornado. The optional laminates listed in the 2009 catalog are not available for the 2009 T3000/Platinum table. So for anyone interested in the new table, the silver "refrigerator/appliance" laminate is all you've got.
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Just got info that my table in in Toronto and as of today it is on its way to Regina,should be here early next week.Rob
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Well its been a while,I received my table and it was the old T 2000 with some of the upgrades but not all,ie clear side strips.I contacted Tornado and they told me they would send me the upgrade kit.I told them this was not acceptable and I wanted the full meal deal.They contacted me again and told me I had to be sent the upgrade kit.I phoned Cheryl and told that we had disscussed this on the phone prior to the table being sent to me.I told them I was sending it back and I wanted a full refund.She said she would send me the new table in April as soon as the new one was ready.The first ones went to the tournament in Vegas,as yet I have not recived it.At this point I have returned two tables.So the story continues.Cheryl has been very helpfull so far and she told me she will send me a new table and will ensure it is not warped .Has any body had any feed back on how the new tables played in Vegas,
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I played on the new tables at the recent NY State tournament. It's by far the best foosball table I've played on.
I started on a TS Green/Blue and then toured on both TS and Dynamo.....took 20 years off and have been playing again on Tornado since '06.....so I've played on a few tables. I also tend to be kind of picky on table condition for what it's worth; e.g., I couldn't stand the concavity of the toe on the several runs of the nylon men.
Anyway.....
It's a GREAT table combined with the 5 hour tumbled balls.
I haven't read this whole thread and I'd imagine that this has been discussed, but the rods are the only thing that are suspect. They did move like glass, but most of the 2 rods bent. I didn't see any of the tables have bent rods other than the 2.
It did remind me of the old days, that is, having to bend the 2 rod back into a good position prior to each match (if it was bent). I was a little surprised at how little effort it took to "re-bend" them.
Still, a great table, and regardless of "them" making changes to it in the future, you couldn't go wrong purchasing and playing on it, in my opinion. I'm upgrading my grey marble.
Good luck with it.
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i have heard nothing but great things and I have friends who went to vegas...i hope to play on some in St Louis this weekend so I will let you know what I think
I am excited about the table as long as it isn't warped
you did the right thing by taking a stand, you pay retail for a brand new table, it is an easy call especially when you go out of your way to tell them in detail you want the new full meal deal T3000 and not a late model T2000 being passed off as a T3000...more, it is hard to believe that after already eating frieght on one table they would make the same very stupid or arogant mistake
gald to see you are keeping after it...they are giving 18 tables away in St Louis and they are "special edition" T3000 non-coin op...if by this they mean T3000 split top no coin op and it really is a T3000 that is a hellva good table worth twice what the Warriors are worth
can't wait to find out the whole scoop, I will keep you all informed of course because I guess I have discovered I am a table nut
tables only given away for doubles events but all doubles events...I am not going until Saturday and so will only be playing in 3 events
AM Dbls , Semi Dbls, and Senior (no comment) Dbls
if the sun aligns correctly, I can stay focused, and all my lucky charms are working, I am working to win one of those special edition tables...problem is all those other people who are trying to live my dream
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Tuna I wish you the best of luck.it would be great to have a new table special edition and be able to say you won it in a tournament,thats better than any trophy,keep us all updated.
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will do, thanks a bunch - I agree and I love trophies but a table won is a trophey and none better I am a thinkin...but there are a lot of great players but I am going to play and will leave my best on the table and let the chips fall where they may...
I expect to see a number of our regulars here at the tourny, I will start a thread tomorrow and we can all give updates
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What do you think is best if you had a choice,a grey marbel table in as new condition with all merkel rods and upgrades done ie men,bearings,handles and clear side strips or the new T 3000 table that is supposed to be available soon.any opinions
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total toss up...merkel rods are the most important difference but I understand Tor is going to Merkel on the T3000 for the 2 rods which is where it is most important and obvious
I have not played on a Grey Marble fixed up like you are suggesting but I am guessing it would be really nice like the new T3000 is
no one has mentioned this and I am sort of surprised but I think the rod on the new T3000 may be slightly thinner...meaning diamiter
this is why they are so slick...thinner rod and thinner handles would speed the game up
I would love to see both
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So the men and bearings would not fit the merkel rods,they would be really loose,as the rod diameter is smaller
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Sorry, the men , handles,and bearings would be a tight fit on the merkel rods.
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good point, they must not be smaller because the new men were made to be able to work on previous models...must just be optical illusion or too much Gin and hippy lettuce
i thought about it more and if you could buy a perfect gray and then spend the money to make all those changes you might as well buy the T3000...from the outside, it is a much cooler looking table especially to friends and family who don't know foosball
it looks so much more official and sport like
just make sure it has Merkels on the 2 bars and if it was my personal table I would change out the score markers to the old ones or at least take a few numbers off (which we did at our local bar)...super annoying score markers, by far the weakness of the table...
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I would by the old style score keeper rod ends,and 4 sets of the wooden discs.Then purchase a longer stainless steel rod and mount it on the originale holes that are there.This would allow for a higher score counter and more room between discs.Will not cost much to do and you do not have to drill more holes to mount it.You can do the same for the game counter if you wanted to.
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I have heard that new tables may be fitted with merkel rods on the two bar or even all rods being merkel,has anybody else heard anything about this.
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They accept a T 3000 at the bar I commonly go to and I alone accept not begin annihilation amiss with it... In actuality I will be affairs in the abreast approaching as I adulation the way it plays. I dont see any nagatives so far on it. Not abiding if this helps, but I adulation it..
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Thermostat (http://www.prothermostats.com/)
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Ron,
you never got an answer to the Merkel rod question...last I heard, before the new owners of Tornado but probably still true, Merkel was going to take the Chinese tubes/rods (2 rod only) that Tornado gets and treat them from there...it isn't quite the full meal deal treatment Merkel usually does when he buys the tubes raw and then goes through his process but they are much better than what is currently being put on the T3000
as it is now, as the current 2 rods are bent and need to be replaced (at tournaments), Tornado is replacing them one at a time with the Chinese Heat-Treated Merkel rods
I played on the new T3000 and when the cheaper untreated 2rod is on the table and not bent, it plays just fine
Right now, they have not been shippping many of the true T3000 tables, none that I have confirmed, to promoters or players but my understanding is that when they do, these tables will have the Chinese Heat-Treated Merkel rods
DeratorZer,
thanks for the post...r you from another country and if so which one? You say you got a T3000, does it have clear strips down the inside edge of the playing surface? If not, it is not a T3000...I say this because I do not know of any T3000's shipping...I have heard, and experienced, stories of late model T2000's shipping and being called T3000's but they are not really...none have this strip replaced and none have had the new men put on them or the new bearings...I point out the strip because it is the easiest one to see and explain
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Hi from Rob,its been a while since I posted but I do read all the comments you guys write on a weekly bases.Just a quick update on my table.I never did get it,I got a full refund from my supplier and Tornado never did get in touch with me about the new tables.Now they have been taken over I dont know what will happen.I got a chance to buy my old grey marbel back from the guy I sold it to.It is still in as new condition and I checked to see if it had merkel rods on it.All of them are Merkel so that is what made me decide to purchase it.I thinh I may try and get an update kit for it but I am not sure if they are still available.If any body knows please let me know.Any well thats the end of my story so far.Seems a lot of screwing around to arrive back were I started.
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you can not buy an update "kit" as far as I know and i wouldn't recommend it anyway
just buy the parts you want seperately and that way you don't have to get those stupid score markers
bearings, men, side-strips, handles, and 5 hr tumbled balls...
bodda bomb, bodda bing - like magic you have the "Tour" edition
you give up the metal wrap, cool stickers, and totally complete absolutely dumbest peice of crap score markers ever
plan on getting yourself one of those killer custom lights for $150, that would rock
http://www.fooslight.com/
hey, on sale for $149 and free shipping...dang, i want one of those bad boys
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well I got the new handles and clear side strips and a new set of five hour tumbled balls and updated my table.I dont think I will get the new men I am to use to the original men.The table plays great love the new handles.Do you know if teflon bearings are availiable from any dealers.Rob
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rob, thats great
the new men won't impact your playing except to make angles and banks a little better...i have played on them and can't tell the difference outside of that....my friend put them on his Grey Mrbl and same thing
not saying you should get them, just saying don't make the reason for not getting them impacting your play negatively...totally seamless impact
on the teflon bearings...the only ones you can get are from Mark Murrell who custom makes them or did...don't know if he makes any with the thinner front profile
if you mean the new tornado bearings with the thinner table side profile, those can impact play and you should for sure get those if you don't do the teflon
i am mixed on how i feel about the teflon because they don't make an improvement with all rods (merkel only if i remember right) and i am not a fan of chaning the play characteristics from what you will get at tournaments unless of course you don't plan on tourneys...if thats the case, go hog wild and just make it the best funnest table ever
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I have not got the thinner bearings because the ball does not fit between the man and the side wall.I dont think there is any other advantage on this bearing is there.My rubber bump stops have softened up over use and time but I thought teflon bearings would make it extra slippery as I have merkel rods.
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Tuna,can you tell me how I can get in touch with Mark Murrell and find out how much a set of teflon bearings would be and if he still makes them,Thanks Rob.