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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: Snake Shot Blows on February 10, 2009, 02:18:09 PM
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well, its the old system and the new ElO mixing...the ELO will straighten things out as more tournaments are put in the system...part of it is that people brought points from the old system, some earned from top play, other earned from going to enough tournaments, but ELO will sort that out eventually, you gotta give it more time
plus, there are some issues with data and still an occasional logic issue which is worked out when they get good detailed fact-based feedback
its a very complex system but when the details are worked out and enough tournament data is added, it will become very solid
it is used in other sports/games and can be very accurate...after time, you will have to be really good to move up and you will have to win quite a bit and if you sort of do and sort of don't you will sort of stay where you are
i know it is built so you go down a little slower now than you go up so you don't pull someone out of a category and play them down one when they really shouldn't be there yet...there is some logic on how long a person should stay at a certain rank if they are not playing but I don't rememeber exactly how it works
lots of past threads on that detail on the other board which you could probably find if youdid a search under ELO
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well, its the old system and the new ElO mixing...the ELO will straighten things out as more tournaments are put in the system
first off, its "Elo" a person's name= Arpad Elo
i beleive they did a reset BEFORE implementing the Elo system ,so there is no "carrying over" of past player's over-ratings that were gained under the old way of doing things in order not to taint the new data going forward
Foosline.com has an Elo PDF article explaining it
http://www.foosline.com/Elo.pdf
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The problem for the majority will continue with the ELO system unless it is updated after each and every event.
This will allow the ELO system to settle out much faster and give a more accurate indication to a players Doubles and Singles strength against the field. We've been using it for 9 years now and it is the best anti-sandbagging component we have. But it has to be updated more frequently than what is currently being done. The software we currently use does that for us, so players typically check out the new points list 2 weeks after our events to search for potential partners.
It would probably benefit to have certain geographically blanced events designated as ELO updated event to help balance the entire U.S. players base in a faster amount of time. 2 event in the North, 2 in the South and so forth.
later
AC
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The Elo-Ranking of the P4P-Players in Germany is updated 1 day after each tournament. Why should it take any longer?
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Body Groove,
You guys are fast.
I'm just too old to get it done any faster :D
AC
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Alan,
maybe the P4P guys are using a better software or something? I'm sure they would be willing to help you if you ask them.
Cheerz
Pat
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The problem with entering the results into the point system, here in the US, is that there isn't just ONE piece of software being used to run all of the tournaments, there is currently at least 4-5 different programs.
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Yeah, like what to expect from a nation that still refuses to use the metric system...
;D
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The problem with entering the results into the point system, here in the US, is that there isn't just ONE piece of software being used to run all of the tournaments, there is currently at least 4-5 different programs.
Being a former coder m'self... that is not a problem, if you look at it from a reliability and durability point of view. You then have 4-5 separate tests of more ideas and more hypotheses in the actual applications. The "herd" mindedness of other more indoctrinated cultures can definitely lead to faster domination of one picked alternative, and of course, the loss of the information and experience gleaned from more than one point of view on any subject. Farthest thing from the American experience, which is very much more independent thinking and more varied experimentation. Obviously a bad thing for Americans, because it made them come up with things like electrification, telephony, portable calculators, mass-produced cars and other thingamajiggies, computers, passable moon travel, binary simplified calculation & execution, personal computers, and most important of all .... permaprest pants, talking pictures, and the TV remote.
Now all these things pale, of course, in comparison to others that came before, from other civilizations, like writing, running water, sorta cooked food, torture dungeons, nifty astrology, dingy castle/sooty mudhuts/stinky tents living... but we can all see how hard it was to sell that stuff... never any sales or discount club coupons. What fun were they?
And the free-er thinking way will almost certainly actually give North American record keeping an edge, because what was technologically sufficient, even superior, for a few years, is continuously and inevitably obsoleted by this planet's new paradigm: death, tax refunds, bailouts and even more change in all of the above.
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@Brian
(http://www.mysmilie.de/smilies/froehlich/7.gif)
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Alan,
maybe the P4P guys are using a better software or something? I'm sure they would be willing to help you if you ask them.
Cheerz
Pat
I talked a bit with Heinrich about the system they use and it appears the guy who wrote the main thing left and now they're working with a mess of a code-mix and doing any modification in it is pretty a struggle in itself...
So I don't think they'll be able to help a lot... :-(
But yeah they're pretty fast uploading the results and having the trackback of all matches you played is great ! Lets you remember some matches you forgot, and also define your worst (or favourite) "ennemies" on the table :P
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The Elo-Ranking of the P4P-Players in Germany is updated 1 day after each tournament. Why should it take any longer?
Yeah, Patrick,
Are the Tecball Elo rankings also updated as fast? Or is there room for some "ahem!" underranked upsets in Tecball? Not sure if they play a lot of handicapped games in Tecball, either... We only know the bit that Mark Winker and Tom Yore can tell us from the Tecball tourneys in Germany.
Ach Der Liebe! Typical admirable Teutonic efficiency and precision, even with thousands of league players. No wonder those BMW's and Mercedes's are just that bit better than the Peugeots and Citroens... ;D ;D ;D
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And just a little bit better, no?
I wonder what Farid drives? ;D Perhaps he likes to walk, living near work, and walk to his 2hour lunches and 4hour dinners.. Which may be long, but are vitally important, so he can discuss what other critical changes are needed for other countries' foosball rules and procedures. 8)
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Brian,
Am I oversensitive or is there a little bit of a xenophobic subtext in your postings? ::) :-\
I'm not sure about the DTFB rating system. I just know that the one P4P uses is working pretty well, so I thought it might serve as an example or a model for other associations (I didn't know they, too, were facing problems). It has nothing to do with general teutonic efficiency, even though, as Phil once rightly remarked, Germans tend to be anal about this kind of stuff.
By the way, I'm not into cars at all. If a was a millionaire, I'd buy a 1968 Mustang Fastback, or even a Shelby GT. To me, advanced technology isn't everything...
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Brian, Am I oversensitive or is there a little bit of a xenophobic subtext in your postings? ::) :-\
Both! HAHAHAHA! Prolly spent too much time in my junior high exchange student days in London, UK, teasing our "froggie" classmates about their 2hr-lunch and vino-all-day lifestyle, which is as they say here, "Nice work if you can get it..." Now, mind you, my friends and I would cross over in the pre-Chunnel days to use our u-Rail passes, or go for rides with our friends there in their parents' hilarious old Citro's or Peugies, complete with that "perpetual motion" shock & suspension systems... not good after much vino and trying to look cool to our Frenchie buddies' sisters. Now I had no problems with the Renaults, but compared to our German friends' cars and my uncle's old old Ferrari in Bologne, the Gaullic autos were very very different and unique. ::) ::)
The girls more than made up for it, though, at least the ones our age back then... (age of insane hormones!!) Only Germanic region we found similar were those on either side of the German-Danish border. No fear and super-friendly, even with my absolutely shameless hooligan "Limey" classmates. They all thought they were "007" on the continent. More like "Bong, the name is Bong!" :P :P
I'm not sure about the DTFB rating system. I just know that the one P4P uses is working pretty well, so I thought it might serve as an example or a model for other associations (I didn't know they, too, were facing problems). It has nothing to do with general teutonic efficiency, even though, as Phil once rightly remarked, Germans tend to be anal about this kind of stuff.
Now that would be a surprise if the newer liga for Tecball wasn't as anal about updating points and results as the more established Lehmacher/P4P one, which is why I asked.
By the way, I'm not into cars at all. If a was a millionaire, I'd buy a 1968 Mustang Fastback, or even a Shelby GT. To me, advanced technology isn't everything...
When you become a millionaire, you might wish to look for rusty or neglected old Mustangs and restore them. That would be a noble calling. In the early 80s my best Temple U buddy was Barry Kruse, whose dad was the last military commander of the Philadelphia Navy Yard BTW, and they lived across the river in Marlton, NJ. Barry had an old restored baby-8 Pony (with latter help from moi!!!), and we used to take that convertible all over South Philly and South Jersey ! That was the life! My brother and I had a stripped-down 78 Plymouth Fury, state police highway interceptor version bought at auction, that our dad helped us get street legit and ready... That was sleeper, all the way down to the ugly mustard-brown-beige paintjob and plain Jane tires.
What's wrong with you Patrick? :D You turning 'Merikanen or something? 8) A fever temperature, maybe???
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Brian, Am I oversensitive or is there a little bit of a xenophobic subtext in your postings? ::) :-\
Both! HAHAHAHA! Prolly spent too much time in my junior high exchange student days in London, UK, teasing our "froggie" classmates about their 2hr-lunch and vino-all-day lifestyle, which is as they say here, "Nice work if you can get it..."
Yeah... the famous "Savoir vivre". Don't expect me to comment on this. That lifestyle never made it across the Rhine. Let me finish munching my potatoes, I gotta get back to WORK!
Now, mind you, my friends and I would cross over in the pre-Chunnel days to use our u-Rail passes, or go for rides with our friends there in their parents' hilarious old Citro's or Peugies, complete with that "perpetual motion" shock & suspension systems... not good after much vino and trying to look cool to our Frenchie buddies' sisters. Now I had no problems with the Renaults, but compared to our German friends' cars and my uncle's old old Ferrari in Bologne, the Gaullic autos were very very different and unique. ::) ::)
I think those Renaults, Peugeots and Citroëns are cars for real men. Anyone can look self-confident in a BMW, but you gotta have balls to look cool when you don't know if your car will make it to the next corner...
The girls more than made up for it, though, at least the ones our age back then... (age of insane hormones!!) Only Germanic region we found similar were those on either side of the German-Danish border. No fear and super-friendly, even with my absolutely shameless hooligan "Limey" classmates. They all thought they were "007" on the continent. More like "Bong, the name is Bong!" :P :P
Damn. I was born too late. "Insane hormones" sounds great. The Bong thing, though, has definitely improved since then... Which sometimes makes up for the lack of hormones...
Now that would be a surprise if the newer liga for Tecball wasn't as anal about updating points and results as the more established Lehmacher/P4P one, which is why I asked.
Those two organizations are structured very differently, as you might know, and I don't know much about the DTFB. P4P is THE association if it comes to players being interested in their ranking. P4P is the Alpha-Game in Germany, if you know what I mean...
When you become a millionaire, you might wish to look for rusty or neglected old Mustangs and restore them. That would be a noble calling. In the early 80s my best Temple U buddy was Barry Kruse, whose dad was the last military commander of the Philadelphia Navy Yard BTW, and they lived across the river in Marlton, NJ. Barry had an old restored baby-8 Pony (with latter help from moi!!!), and we used to take that convertible all over South Philly and South Jersey ! That was the life! My brother and I had a stripped-down 78 Plymouth Fury, state police highway interceptor version bought at auction, that our dad helped us get street legit and ready... That was sleeper, all the way down to the ugly mustard-brown-beige paintjob and plain Jane tires.
Sounds great, but as I said: I don't know much about cars. But I guess I would have liked that Plymouth a lot.
What's wrong with you Patrick? :D You turning 'Merikanen or something? 8) A fever temperature, maybe???
Now that you guys finally got a PRESIDENT, I might think about it...
No, seriously, I've always been pro-American. If sometimes I'm up-front about some issues, it's because I think one should use unambigous words among friends...
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Hey body, I need some help locating ratings online for your area. Are there any websites that list the top players in your regions?
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Hi Ed,
this is the P4P Ranking:
http://www.players4players.de/Rangliste.rangliste.0.html
"Doppel" means doubles, "Einzel" means singles.
N = Neuling = Amateur
A = Amateur = Semi Pro
M = Master = Pro
E = Elite = Pro Master
P4P is an independent international organization (though heavily focussed on Germany), uses a permanent Elo-ranking and has nothing to do with the ITSF.
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This is the DTFB (Deutscher Tischfußballbund = German Table Soccer Association) ranking page:
http://www.dtfb.de/index.php?filter_jahr=2008&option=com_tsleague&task=ranglisten&Itemid=104
The DTFB is a member of the ITSF and, as I understand it, uses their point system. No Elo, but based on tournament placements. Since it is a national ranking system, international tournaments are only taken into account if they are organized by the DTFB.
I hope this will serve your needs. If not, please contact me again.
Cheerz
Pat
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Does the DTFB have a ranking system?
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No... Sorry for the misunderstanding. They have a point system, like the ITSF.
I should add that the DTFB is the umbrella organization for the German league system, not the organizer of a tour.
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Pat can you send me your email addy?