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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: Daniel on May 11, 2009, 05:05:42 PM
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Kelye Stites, owner of Champion Shuffleboard Ltd., has acquired Valley-Dynamo L.L.C., the Texas-based coin-op supplier.
According to Valley-Dynamo, the sale included all coin-operated and consumer products under the Valley, Dynamo and Tornado brands, which will continue to operate under the Valley-Dynamo name.
"Valley pool tables, Dynamo pool and air hockey tables and Tornado foosball tables are the unquestioned leaders in their categories in both coin-op and consumer markets," said Mr. Stites.
"I am delighted to have the chance to offer these quality products to Valley-Dynamo customers and to continue to operate the company independently," he added.
The company said its headquarters and distribution center in Dallas and Fort Worth will remain open until a new location is selected.
Financial details of the acquisition were not disclosed.
http://www.gamingindustrymedia.com/TabID/100/ID/460/News/Coin-Op/Champion-Shuffleboard-Owner-Acquires-Valley-Dynamo/Default.aspx#Comments
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I always wondered how a Tornado would play with pucks instead of balls.
Maybe they'll have better and more consistent quality control this time? Should be easier with flat smooth pucks.
Guess the Shuffleboard Worlds didn't get the turnout they wanted, huh?
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the silence is staggering, I think the significance of the moment has people standing mouths agape
the potential to change foosball historically, for good or ill, is immense
the unknowns are palpable
the future is now fogged
I hear footsteps, the footsteps of a solider that senses the vulnerability of his powerful rival - the warrior is preparing for attack
Hold on to your hats, keep your arms inside the car, it could be a bumpy ride
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Silence is staggering? It's to be expected. Not many people familiar with Tornado and Valley are familiar with http://www.championshuffleboard.com (http://www.championshuffleboard.com), from Richland Hills, Texas, which makes championship shuffleboard tables for North Am and the world. It looks like it's being threatened, likewise, by the newer double-ended short (12' or 14') electronic scoring shuffleboard tables, which have become very popular and are now taking over, just like the smaller bar and gameroom coin-op pool tables did decades ago. The smaller coin-op pool tables forced fullsize tables back to pool halls and large community rec halls, and the little ones are also now even in those venues.
My local retro arts bar-gameroom has one of those newer (non Champion Shuffleboard) type electronic shuffleboard tables at Lost Weekend in West Palm Beach, and the new manufacturers' take on the shorter but just as fun electronic shuffleboard table is brilliant. When the winning score OR time limit expires, a row of short pins blocking table play automatically go up across the middle. You can now see and yell at your friends and opponents instead of the old, deathly quiet "mile-long" classic shuffleboard tables that they have at the larger or more cavernous sports bars. Probably one of the few new bar & venue games that can compete with the poker craze and the Beer Pong insanity.
The quality of the newer competing electronic shuffleboard shorties is not as good, of course, and the materials just seem slightly more cheesy..... And the newfangled dollar or coin-ops are definitely more temperamental... but then again, so are most new manufacturing entrants to a market with newer technology fusing with classic tech. Sound familiar to those Tornado DV players' observations and critical judgements on the 1.5 year old IFP Warriors???
So it looks like ChampShuf is quite familiar with being a long-time manufacturer of bar games, and is now beset by newer, more progressive, forward-thinking companies encroaching on its traditional markets. They definitely are familiar with Tornado's typical venues and their target market hasn't changed much. Looks like there shouldn't be much of a learning curve there.
This acquisition looks like they've just logically expanded their portfolio of bar & venue games to compete across the board, so this would make sense: same locations, similar target audience and demographics, and virtually the same distributor channel.
Let's hope they put some domestic ad and tour muscle into Tornado DV. God knows that the older managements gagged on doing this, for one reason or another, focusing on the international market, and doing quite well at first, but then not willing to handle international competition and gettin run over in turn by organized international associations. All the while neglecting AND disrespecting the captive domestic market. Let's see how ChampShuf handles this...
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I guess we are just sitting back to see what happens.
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killa,
most of what you said is interesting but it doesn't really say what will happen to foosball. Who knows if this was bought for the pool tables, air hockey, or foosball...does he want to grow one or all, does he want to keep statis quo and make more money on the units which means cut back manufacturing costs? does he want to be in the tournament business, does he want to build a consistant super high quality tournament/coin op table or does he want to cut back on extranious expenses like tournaments?
does he see the value of players, does he want to build a new generation of players, does he want to or can he get them on TV, how will he respond to the ITSF, USTSF, USTSA, Jim Stevens, and NetFoos
you said, "Let's hope they put some domestic ad and tour muscle into Tornado DV."
the key to this statement is "Lets hope" because until the new owner speaks or they "do" somethings there is no way to know how this will impact foosball
sounds good he is in the coin op business so he knows Tornado foosball but that is where it ends
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The company said its headquarters and distribution center in Dallas and Fort Worth will remain open until a new location is selected.
Life goes in circles. Champion Shuffleboard's shop is on just off 121 in northwest Ft Worth (actually Richland Hills). Tornado was in a warehouse nearby before it moved to Mansfield Hwy, then to Rendon Road. If it's moved back to 121, we have our circle. Now if we can just get foos back to where it was.
I just hope they don't lose the quality. I got disgusted with Tornado when they came out with the warped playfields. Funny how I can accept Warrior with their defects and yet I have a hard time forgiving Tornado for theirs. I guess I just came to expect better of them. I hope they spoil me again.
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A new owner might put their "stamp" on the product. Are they willing to do their homework and thus realize how critical the decisions which affect "play" are? To be honest, I hope this is the break Warrior is looking for, as they love the game and are connected to it and also lean towards the playability that I want.
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killa,
most of what you said is interesting but it doesn't really say what will happen to foosball. Who knows if this was bought for the pool tables, air hockey, or foosball...does he want to grow one or all, does he want to keep statis quo and make more money on the units which means cut back manufacturing costs? does he want to be in the tournament business, does he want to build a consistant super high quality tournament/coin op table or does he want to cut back on extranious expenses like tournaments?
If you look at their website, it should stand to reason that Kelye Stites and ChampShuf would also approach manufacturing, especially "inhouse" manufacturing for Tornado DV products, with roughly the same care as he does his fine shuffleboard tables. ChampShuf obviously has had access to decent wood and laminate for years, which should be an advantage, supply-wise. Their "knockdown and shipping skills should also help with end-user/distributor delivery quality and reliability. Production knowhow with respect to coin and electronic servo mechanisms have to be there, too.
If they aren't ABSOLUTE TOTAL MORONS AND RETARDS, especially in this recalcitrant economy, then obviously whatever floats will win out, whether its the pool tables, air hockey tables, or foosball tables. I recall them all still being human and have to eat, average 95-105 IQ or better, at least as far as I know about people off Rte 121 in Texas. Hopefully all divisions will continue: which leads to the REAL question: will the current market continue to support them? If Tornado DV customers and clients don't, then duhhhhhhh ?? .....
Shuffleboard is highly tournament and competition intensive and concentrated, so that's a good starting point: they should be PRETTY F*ING FAMILIAR BY NOW, with how important AND DIRECTLY TIED INTO SALES the tourney and event promotion activities are. They have their leagues, associations, and organized rules, including different games. They support all the major rules sets and even provide them online IN A SEPARATE SECTION. I don't see any real disadvantages there.. Definitely a much better fit than making boats or fitness equipment!!
As to building consistent high-quality tables for tournament play, Warrior has already disproved the absolute necessity for that. The whole coin-op market knows, HECK.... WE ALL KNOW!!, if a million dollar tour were played on official one-ply toilet paper tables (no disparagement of Warrior tables meant... just an example) they would HAVE A TOUR. Business wise, who the f*** cares about having the ultimate high-quality table, at least who matters to the owners? Decent manufacturing and passable quality manufacturers stand no less chance of floundering and failing as any high-end niche (<-pun).
...... does he see the value of players, does he want to build a new generation of players, does he want to or can he get them on TV, how will he respond to the ITSF, USTSF, USTSA, Jim Stevens, and NetFoos
Who could know or divine this? Who would know how Kelye and his team hits it off or not with so many different individuals, groups and organizations? Which driving need to know is driving these worries that NOONE CAN REALLY DO ANYTHING ABOUT EXCEPT SEE THE OUTCOME? So if he thinks they're all *ssholes and dropkicks the "ITSF, USTSF, USTSA, Jim Stevens, and NetFoos," so these groups are forced to liquidate, or perhaps move to the all-Warrior side, or even Bonzini support, if he doesn't like rulebooks in Francais with English subtitles, or wants THEIR OWN shuffleboard tourney people he's been dealing with forever to take over, SO WHAT? The current Tornado DV tour and overall state of affairs "shore ain't heaven, neither," right 'bout now!!!
.....you said, "Let's hope they put some domestic ad and tour muscle into Tornado DV."
the key to this statement is "Lets hope" because until the new owner speaks or they "do" somethings there is no way to know how this will impact foosball
sounds good he is in the coin op business so he knows Tornado foosball but that is where it ends
I have to conclude that all we can know is that Tornado DV is now owned by people familiar for decades with the vending and games business. In their corner, they've been installing, operating, promoting and maintaining their core product side-by-side in the same venues as Tornado has for decades. They work with wood, laminate, electronics and support local, regional and national events. They obviously are allowing Tornado DV HQ to keep operating in its current location for now, until they examine it and make THEIR decisions, which is THEIR right on THEIR DIME.
BBT, I must not be reading something, because your statement seems to imply that ChampShuf, I guess without a grand tour announcement and press conferences and clippings, isn't any better fit with Tornado DV, instead of the million to 1 times better fit that it seems to look like over the previous ownership.
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thats a lot of writing when after everything you say,
BBT, I must not be reading something, because your statement seems to imply that ChampShuf, I guess without a grand tour announcement and press conferences and clippings, isn't any better fit with Tornado DV, instead of the million to 1 times better fit that it seems to look like over the previous ownership.
I did not imply anything, I said we don't know and we won't know until we hear or we see and you know what, we don't know
You also said,
Tornado DV is now owned by people familiar for decades with the vending and games business. In their corner, they've been installing, operating, promoting and maintaining their core product side-by-side in the same venues as Tornado has for decades. They work with wood, laminate, electronics and support local, regional and national events.
I totally agree with this but it doesn't mean things will go well for tournament foosball but it rasies the potential for things to go well
and make THEIR decisions, which is THEIR right on THEIR DIME.
yea? whats your point? of course it is their decision, their right, their Dime, their time...annnd???
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thats a lot of writing when after everything you say,
Sure, I like to be clear and verbatim, prolly an offshoot of my technical engineering and legal writing background. 'Scuze..
BBT, I must not be reading something, because your statement seems to imply that ChampShuf, I guess without a grand tour announcement and press conferences and clippings, isn't any better fit with Tornado DV, instead of the million to 1 times better fit that it seems to look like over the previous ownership.
I did not imply anything, I said we don't know and we won't know until we hear or we see and you know what, we don't know
That's why I posed it as a question, because it just seemed that you were far from encouraged with this new development. I was curious to know if you had had someone else in mind you were kinda hoping to buy the "leaky ship."
You also said,
Tornado DV is now owned by people familiar for decades with the vending and games business. In their corner, they've been installing, operating, promoting and maintaining their core product side-by-side in the same venues as Tornado has for decades. They work with wood, laminate, electronics and support local, regional and national events.
I totally agree with this but it doesn't mean things will go well for tournament foosball but it rasies the potential for things to go well
You mean to say, "it doesn't mean things will go well for TORNADO tournament foosball...." because go well or not, I think IFP and Warrior and Bonzini would merrily keep plugging along... I see your point... the total death of Tornado national tournaments would suck, and this new owner is no guarantee... At least they obviously have mo' mo' money.....
and make THEIR decisions, which is THEIR right on THEIR DIME.
yea? whats your point? of course it is their decision, their right, their Dime, their time...annnd???
I'm pointing out that this is one of the most "sensible" looking acquisitions in Tornado DV's history, and being supportive of their domestic US market in shuffleboard tables, it should portend logically much much better execution of any "hoped-for" new direction for domestic Tornado DV foosing, after a careful, bottom-line scrutiny of current operations.
I'd have to say that your last line is what set off my response, because I disagree with that part:
sounds good he is in the coin op business so he knows Tornado foosball but that is where it ends
Any viable national businessman, whether in the same industry or not (I feel like saying even a crack and meth bum on some street corner, but you know that would be exaggerating, slightly.. :)) WOULD STILL HAVE TO DO ONE HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN THE PRETEND PROMOTIONS MANAGEMENT (not talking about customer service, production or other aspects) they have had for the past 25 years. I daresay you, BBT, on your worst thinking and performing days, would have done a hell of a lot better job in promotions and tournament management than those who were in charge of the domestic US tour since 90.
Tornado got over a 2 decade stranglehold on domestic US foos and the tour, and I believe they would have kept on keeping on, enjoying their overseas junkets and building up their international cache, insisting on neglecting the US domestic market forever, tourwise and promotions wise, only doing these "death knell" jerks in light of serious competition and this new "no-B.S." economy. If ChampShuf started fresh and ripped out every last vestige of the old guard, it might very well be the best thing in the long run... because the current situation IS as progressive, as contemporary, as hip, and as considerate of the US domestic tour and players as their MS-DOS tournament software.
If that actor who played the sad sack in the "Ernest" movies, now dead, took over, it couldn't get worse. That's what I was trying to imply.
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Killa,
it could get worse, that is my point...we don't know - he may have gotten this for pool tables and air hockey and foosball was a thorn thrown in or maybe the other way around...we don't know
and even if he loves Tornado from a vending position doesn't mean he is going to like the tournament side of foosball, support it, or anything else
his shuffleboard tables look like works of art but that doesn't mean they really are and even if they are that doesn't mean he will take the same interest in building totally reliable "killa" foosball tables
too many unknowns to say this is good or bad...I am not being a negative Nelly, I am just being realistic and honest...I hope for the best, I want the best, he would be the best thing EVER to happen to foosball but we simply do not know and that is my point
was I hoping for someone else? not unless it was a totally committed deep pocketed visionary foosball player...should they clean house? Depends on what his overall plan is...if he is going to continue in the tournament foosball end of things or at the very least promote it then I say suck the resource dry for history and background and then dump anyone involved AFTER finding an Ernest to replace them. I am open to be that Ernest and I am ready and am certain I could transform Tornado tournament foosball for the better from grass roots to a tour and to "Majors".
I hope for the best but right now it is hope born out of personal desire not assurance that new ownership is going to do things we all approve of...we will see.
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Friends,
I think it would be amusing to watch the elite of pro shuffleboarding go through the same process we've watched foosball endure (ITSF) - international unification of rules, followed by a bunch of old geezers on message boards complaining about having to change rules and procedures when they were perfectly happy all 80+ years of their life doing it the old way. Isn't shuffleboard big on cruise ships? How would you like to have the job of levelling a Tornado table on the high seas - LOL. Oh, how about some retirees meeting with top execs, trying to get some TV time for shuffleboard, dentures flopping out as they get wound up with frustration.
A good comic (I am obviously not) could really have fun with this marriage of games...
Shuffleboard and foosball - actually a much better fit than foosball and marine equipment. I wish them well.
Tyler
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you would have thought with the money of Bud and the bar and table game background the previous owners would have hit a home run rather than get picked off at first
still, coin op manufacture distributor seems like a good marriage especially since tournament shuffleboard already exists...
I wish them the best of the best and if they are interested in reaching out to our community, I am willing to do my part to help them
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One thing I find encouraging is that they are considering moving the manufacturing back to the states and citing quality over labor savings as the motivation. Of course, that still doesn't say what they're going to do in regards to tournaments. They at least seem to recognize the reputation of Valley pool tables and Tornado foosball as the leaders in their industry.
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Addendum,
I made a closer examination of the shorter, dollar-op, electronic shuffleboard we have at Lost Weekends in West Palm Beach, FL, which is so popular and gets so used that the dollar mech and battery AND the actual ceramic and steel shuffles have already been replaced or repaired several times over the past 10 months.
Damn if isn't a ChampShuf! They put "Richland Hills, TX" gaudily on the center back post. Must be one of their other model names. What's funny is when drunk morons which one, of course, rather occasionally finds weekends in certain liquor-abundant venues, try playing without putting the dollar in the mech... whacking and sometimes cracking the shuffles on the raised pins in the center that prevents any decent play without pay.
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Here is some more info on this.
http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/1378705.html
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on top he is Bill Rickett's son=in=law
THe guy who hired ED McCoud to help copy the tornado and make the dynamo.....