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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: MR.STEVE on March 16, 2010, 09:24:13 PM
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Wow the Mi states may be a eye opener, I never felt so bummed in my life, I lost in R doubles real quick, lost in A doubles real quick, pro dubs real quick ,I walked away from both looser brackets in two singles events I had enough couldnt pull it together at all. I never gave up in my life I played as hard as I could in doubles I didnt want to give up on my partners. but the feeling of I cant block anything even from bad shots was to much.I dont know if I will play anymore tournys or not ..
any of you guys ever felt like this was it Im done.
Im not knocking anyone who beat me they played better..
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A few times, since coming back to the game, I've had to honestly look at myself and my game and ask if I really could get back to where I was when I was younger. It's been about 3 years back to the game now and I feel I'm beginning to close in on where I want to be. But oh have I gotten schooled along the way, and yes, I have felt the way you do. I'm 55 almost 56 and have to admit snatching up loose balls is a whole bunch harder than it used to be. These kids now days all seem so good and the style of play is so standardized that if you lack any of the skills at all you get killed. As a young player I was able to put people back on their heels with "in your face" automatic shots from everywhere and would seek out the best players anywhere I went. I actually had to ask my wife what it was that I did then to be so dominate as now-a-days I never felt that way. With enough practice the old feel started coming back and then I started having limited success against some local "ranked" players. I then realized that my biggest problem was I wasn't executing what I practiced at home but rather played according to who was cross the table. I don't know your situation or age but I do know I love this game and might not ever be #1 but I still get a great deal of fun and satisfaction from it. You have to be honest with yourself and take a real hard look at what you need to work on. Then bite the bullet and do it. Take one facet of the game at a time, not all at once and really pay your dues. If you want to play different you have to practice different. If you love this game then don't give up, just give yourself a break and relax. The game is about having fun. Practice your special play and make others deal with it. I hope this helps.
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Steve,
I don't know your playing history, if this was your first big event in a while or first ever, etc. but I can certainly relate to your frustration. The fact that you even posted your results tells me you are motivated to improve your game, so regardless of the background info, GOOD FOR YOU! That feeling of frustration and inability to adapt sets the stage for an eagerness to learn and to acknowledge the fact that foosball has a very steep learning curve. Regular play at the local level gets you ready for state competition level, then regional and up to national. The tougher the competition, the more opportunity to learn, especially from the guy that was on the other side of the table. Ask him 'Were my holes that obvious? Were my fakes that predictable? Was my timing easy to predict?' The best time to learn what to practice is right after that weakness being exposed. Then practice and play with specific objectives in mind. The coolest part about foosball is all the adjustments, options and momentum swings that occur while competing, and that first run of 3 points in a row (even if you lose) is a very real start to getting to where you realistically want to be. Avoiding a repeat of the humbling scenario you described above won't happen by fixing everything at once, but taking those 1-2 most obvious 'need to fix' issues and work on them, then see where that leads you, rinse and repeat!
Thanks for sharing your experience...........................Tyler
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steve,
how old are you and what is your playing background...did you play younger and then have a long lay off and you are recently playing again (within a year or so)? it is easy to mis evaluate yourself regardless of your background but especially if you have anything like this story
there are a number of us here with this type of background...i played 74ish to 81ish and got really good in some ways and had a period of time where i practiced 6 to 8 hours a day by myself on top of 6 plus hours with my friends...i never realized my potential but had reason to believe i could have been a top player I won't bore you with the details
i then got married and busy with life and didn't play for nearly 25 years...i discovered 5 years ago the game continued and names i knew in the game were still playing...i saw video of best players and thought i could get to that level pretty fast...i was so rusty a ball would pass by my rod and 2 seconds later i would reach out to grab it
bottom line is, after a rough and eye opening beginning and practicing like crazy (compared to anyone i know) my game is now better in everyway it could be from when i was young...i am better by a long shot and know so much more than I did then except in two ways…my lateral speed is not as good and never will be and I can not repeat strokes and passes with the same consistency…the second of these is most impactful
anyway, I just turned 53 and I am as good or better than anyone in my area except Joe Rhodes – I am still improving
how much longer can I go before my game starts a serious decline I can’t say…I am already amazed at how long people can play at the top levels, look at Gummy and Todd both a couple years behind me but still they are top world class level
I can guarantee you are not to slow to block…if you were getting ripped up it is more about the defenses you were using…defense isn’t about speed, its about position and strategy…doesn’t hurt to have speed but it is not the answer and if you think it is, that is evidence that you are most likely not losing because of your age
Anyway, yea, I have felt the way you describe but I am into the game, love developing and have fun with friends all of which are new since foosball began….keep at it and get someone you know who is real good to honestly evaluate where your game is at and then get at making changes, they won’t happen through hope, you need to work at making your game better
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You guys hit the nail on the head Im turning 53 this year played 75 to 80 went to all the big tournys did pretty good , started playing again about 2 or 3 years ago again and 50 lbs extra to lug around..I have given my self a begginer lable because of my tourny results in loacal events most times 3 place or out in 2 and I know I can do way better.it just goes wrong so I hope to get more table with a local pro Mi pullkicker thanks for your input..
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Steve and Tuna,
OK, this is getting really creepy. I too just turned 53 and have a similar 'played for a while, quit for a while, recently got back into it' story. So how about you, OM? Tell me you're 53 also - we could start a geriatric league! LOL
Take care, gents.....................................Tyler
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OM is in the same category and so is Wildcard if I remember right...I have gotten to watch OM from start up after the long layoff and have watched his progress and of course i have my own story and also i have seen plenty of others
even big names like Mike Bowers after a long lay-off, find it hard to get back to their original game
i think Todd and Gummy are the exception because they never had the long lay-off
as i discussed with OM early on, it is easy to overestimate your skills and capabilities when you are coming back because people are prone to the American Idol syndorm...this is where people think they can sing, i mean really think they are good, and when the audition it is the worst thing you have ever heard...most times, they are mad at the judges for not seeing their special gift
it has long baffled me how people can be so far off but it happens in every game and sport I have ever been a part of and it takes real mental toughness and honestly to evaluate where you are really at...it helps if you have someone who is good, who you know knows, and who will tell you HONESTLY where you are at...if not, you have to do the evaluation all yourself and it is very hard
I can tell you that if you have only been back a couple of years and you haven’t put any real practice time in that you will not have made much progress…for me to get where I am, it has taken me practicing every day trying to get in 1-2 hours, more if possible
I can’t do more because I am way to heavy and my feet give out but if I was 150 pounds lighter, I would be putting in 3 to 4 hours a day and more on weekends…it all depends on how good you want to be…even though I am certain now given my age and weight that I can not get to top PM level, I am certain that I can get to the top of every other level if I could find the resources to go to 10 or more tournaments a year for a couple years
You have to decide what you want out of your game and don’t make goals you can not or will not fulfill…do you have a table, how much do you practice, what kinds of things do you do, who are the people you play with most, do you have anyone teaching you especially defense?
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My target is top 5 in michigan,most players around are forwards, I do read a lot from icemans posts ;D
I realy need a table that I can play on everyday .Its funny because I cant wait to do it all over again. :-X >:(
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Tyler, I got you by 3 years lol. I'll be 56 in May. Steve, if I find someone is "playing" me in drawing me off on my defense, I will go to looking at my men rather than their men. I then pay attention to going as random and unpredictable as possible. I watch what holes are exposed and try to "play the guy I'm facing. I watch some of the better players and come up with battle plans for when I face them. I'll let them see their favorite hole and then take it away and let them wait for it, by the time they realize it's not going to show they don't have much time to shoot and often make a half committed shot or I might tease them with a peak about that time, games. Make them react to you, not you to them. And yes, you need a table,,,
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you are just a weekly guy like in a bowling league if you don't have your own table...you can progress without one but it takes at least 4 times longer to get the same results...you need to make getting a table a priority...you are already old :P and you aren't getting younger...to get to the top 5 in MI is quite goal and if you aren't putting in at least 1 hour a day (more if you want it in less than 4 years), you aren't going to make it before your physical capabilities diminish
the time is now and you need to get after it...here is a little reminder
GATHER your foosballs while you may,
Old time is still a-flying :
And this same push side roller that smiles to-day
To-morrow will be dying.
The glorious lamp of heaven, the sun,
The higher he's a-getting,
The sooner will his race be run,
And nearer he's to setting.
That age is best which is the first,
When youth and blood are warmer ;
But being spent, the worse, and worst
Times still succeed the former.
Then be not coy, but use your time,
And while ye may go play foos:
For having lost but once your prime
You may for ever tarry.
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on Defense:
Ice is a good resource but it is much too narrow and you need to get someone in MI who is a good goalie to talk to you and work with you
goalie is about position and nerve...you want to get in the shooters head, make them have to consider timing, the hole, your men, his ball, stance anything that makes them think...read the post started by OM that Zeek writes on the mental side of the game...in there it is about shooting/playing without thinking and letting the natural you do what it knows how to do...as a defender, if you can make the offensive player "think" about anything at all, you are taking them away from the natural state
if you can make a person wonder or think you can make them mis-execute either timing or the shot
defense is about positioning your men in ways that make holes appear to not be there or to be smaller or to be some place else...defense is about showing one thing in the first 4-6 seconds when they are setting up and then changing to something else...this makes them start to prepare mentally for one thing and then have to change the progression
you are a magician and it is your job to make things look different by positioning your men, angles of the feet different movements of one rod and then the other...working in concert but being able to be totally independent if needed
be able to work your defense from the inside out, the outside in, and the middle out…reverse and standard defense
its about changing timing so that you are in different places for randomly different times
its about changing patterns or preferably not having patterns
its about identifying shooters preferences and taking those things away
its about being where you want to be when a person shoots and not racing them to a hole (unless you plan to want to do that…just don’t make that the primary defense)
learn to spend more time in the hole you want to block than you spend out of it
play percentages and zones and make a person have to hit a perfect shot..if you do that, you can do the next important thing which is to defend as little of the goal as possible
plan ahead, give something you intend to take away later
if you have a defensive series that is working, try another series this will give them something else to think about and if it works you have another weapon and if it doesn’t you can reintroduce the working series or try another and learn to use what parts do work
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Greetings Seen Years, A thread for the aged. Tale of the tape; I'll be 62 next month & weigh 30 lbs more than my fighting weight of yester year. Hope to have a decent game by age 70 & beyond, God willing. Here's my 2 cents:
Back in 1970,71,72 (starting age early 20s) had alot of tournament success in Virginia Beach on Rene Pierre. Loved to play for fun & profit, now I love to play. Got a Bonzini (great table) from my friend Alan Cribbs in late 2008, after about a 35 year lay-off due to college,marriage,kids,career. The Foos addiction (a positive thing like exercise) was doing pushups while I abstained. Last year I attended a Tornado,Warrior & Bonzini tournament. Mr. Steve, I feel your pain. Nostalgia is not what it used to be. Today's dedicated players are skillful & smart. Now living near Chicago, I practice on Bonzini, & when I play on it's Tornado. Frankly, I usually lose games but I don't lose heart. Here is what keeps me in the game;
-I never SAY (self talk) " I'll never be as good as I once was" because it may trend toward self-fulfilling prophesy.
-I have fun & whatever happens is OK,because it has to be.
-Progress not perfection,eg,If someone usually beats me 5 to 1or2, I count a loss of 5 to 3or4 the desired direction.
-Practice, play,repeat.
-I stop the foosball if it is bedtime or I need a nap, or if I need to change my diaper( I like depends ).
Hope this helps. Tyler if you venture north we could french style foos fest. Long live foosball. In 40 years I have gone from having groupies to being a groupie. Acceptance is the key. PEACE, John
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Yes there are so many things I use to remember to do but forget till its to late . I remember playing with just let it happen, like a archer holding his shot until it just releases by it self no thought to screw it up its funny these things I know but forget to use, sometimes a reminder is needed.
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Its past my bed time have to take my meds now lol true
peace out
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just saying your too old for foos is the wrong attitude , i dont even think about it , also its best to try to be in shape ,so you feel great ,have energy, dont lug any extra pounds around, it helps in singles to be quick ;) ,im getting close to "senior events"-land ,so i want to be in top form to defy the aging process, good luck in your foos endevors
-Ben
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well ben, you are in good shape especially if you are anywhere near the 50 mark...yea, carrying around a few extra pounds is definately a negative in many ways and carrying as much extra as I do is near crippling but no one can fix that excpt me
keep it up ben, you are a great example for many reasons and the door is open waiting for you to step through and join the old guys...in the mean time, keep rippin em up, I can tell you for sure, your game can get much better if you want it too...not because it isn't good, but because you haven't tapped your full potential yet and you are still young enough to grow
foos on old dudes
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I think the biggest hinderance to reaction time is our eyes. We all fight it, but once 40 hits, the eyes don't focus as fast. Glasses or contacts help, but then bifocals come into the picture (I was sure I was right on the ball). When I played in a tourney last month for the first time since TS days, I was thoroughly embarassed. I couldn't stop dookie. I will continue to play, but I think tournaments are in my rear view. Life's too short. Let the next generation take the reigns and enjoy watching them do it. I just hope foosball can return to the level it enjoyed back in the 70's.
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Ah, talking bifocals and focusing, boy isn't that the truth. I keep missing grabs on the ball at the goalie end when I play singles. I then realized that the image jumped from one lens facet to another. I've considered getting a pair of glasses with just the intermediate focus and might yet. I've thought that I should start a thread about each of us telling our foosball story. Our beginning and heyday to the present. I find for myself it has always been frustrating due to being too far away from the action. Now my kids are raised and I get more "me" time and I think it is a good fit to try to recapture some of those dreams that the death of TS took away from me. I imagine each of us has their story and by reading them we might come to realize what a boomer brotherhood we have in foosball. The older I get the better I was,,, ;D
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!n the mid 70s I learned I needed reading glasses. The Optomatrist said look through them for objects within arms lenght & over them (half glasses) for all objects further. Fine for years until back to foos. Solution: 9 months ago got soft contacts concentric rings Multifocal. Fantasmic!
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Now living near Chicago, I practice on Bonzini, & when I play on it's Tornado. PEACE, John
John do you play at Q's every other Friday???
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Quote from: jkhFoos
Back in 1970,71,72 (starting age early 20s) had alot of tournament success in Virginia Beach on Rene Pierre.
That might be a little bit of an understatement. I think you are being a bit modest. And I would venture that most of todays players have no idea who you are, or are they aware of the success you had playing foosball back in '70, '71 nad '72 (not to mention the cool prizes 8) ).
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I dont think being in top shape is a big factor now days I am sure it would help for lots or reasons, but look at a lot of the top players today .. belive me I rather be a skinny guy. I played in the mid to late 70 and quite I didnt like the other tables my big win was 1978 novice doubles in 78 buff. Ny. Im not sure who John is either ?
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Foosball needs coaches. When we all get older we can look forward to becoming coaches etc... Oh wait we are just not formally LOL
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Steve, I'm always fighting the battle of the bulge. I think fitness matters to a greater or lesser degree, per person, like any sport.
Jin, my last name is Hayes & I live in Wheaton. The DYPs at Q are 2nd & 4th Fridays. Haven't been lately due to working alot. FYI: April has 5 Fridays, therefore a BYP (4-30). I'm teamed up with Tony Pyto. I will look forward to meeting you sometime. I've learned alot of what I should be doing in modern foos from my friend Chase (Mindset Foosball). Please let me know if you ever want to play Bonzini.
Pat,yes, Singles first place was a '71 Honda 125SL dirt bike. Lots of summer fun. My greatest thrill was Singles first place '72 Dodge Dart Demon (red) slant 6, 3 on the tree. I think it was the first car as a foos prize (atleast in the US)- many & better have been awarded since.
Drove it all over the country, East to west coast north & south.had it til '81. In '71 Paul Nipper & I won first in doubles. In '72 Tom Baker & I won first in doubles. Those were the best shared feelings of accomplishment I ever experienced. Well Pat, you & team USA know that feeling big time & recently!
OK folks, time to check the paper for tomorrow's Early Bird Specials. John
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I think we should form our own over the hill crew we could have a speical shirt or hat so people would know they just lost to a old man from the group. we would need a cool name.. any ideas
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Steve,Usually I'm not very creative with names. Ofcourse the most common slur is old farts. Makes no sense because personally most gaseous emmisions are new but perhaps that's just me. Seriously though, I DO hope as time goes on there might be more age sub-divisions beyond over 50=Senior. Ben I think you're close. Way to go & thanks for your work on schedules. Imagine an over 80 division(It's done in Tennis-why not?except perhaps lack of interest). Think of the promo if Versus or ESPN showed it. The "ball moves too fast to see" problem for TV could be solved. If millions watched Olympic Curling, at least some might tune in for over the 90 foosball championships. ;D
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Boomerfoos!
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I like it. You've been boomed. OM I took alot of notes from your comments (& tuna's too) on the Mental thread. I'll probably bump that topic someday. Love Sports Psychology. Time for Metamucil. Gotta go... make that foos ya later.
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My target is top 5 in michigan,most players around are forwards, I do read a lot from icemans posts ;D
I realy need a table that I can play on everyday .Its funny because I cant wait to do it all over again. :-X >:(
I took 17 years off and it has been a rough road for me also. Warrior is harder to play goalie on period, so I would think you were at somewhat a disadvantage. Buy a table and put the time in, talk to successful people and watch them practice. Learn to shoot a whir-lee bird because it will help you learn to block it. It is the little subtle things that make the difference. Success will come as brains and trickery are the great equalizer to youth and enthusiasm.
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almost the same story here, but i'm 52. tho i never played in sanctioned events i played with a few tournament players in the 70's. hung out at some of the same arcades as loffredo and jackson,specifically the brickyard in aurora,co. still remember the day we walked in and the proprieter frank told us that todd and gil took nationals and gil and sharon took 3rd in mixed doubles. anyway i went off on one of those state mandated vacations and when i came back to town around 82 the scene was totally different. i was ready to play(or so i thought) but all the drug infested, blaring rock arcades full of nothing but foos tables and pinballl machines were gone. now the only tables around were in bowling alleys,pool halls, maybe one at the video arcade at the mall with screaming kids running about. so my bud was all excited tellin me about this new dynamo table and this new shot that couldn't be stopped. well he was right. i couldn't stop it and it pissed me off, especially when his girlfriend started smokin me with it. i hated it. wide-ass goals,how can you not miss? freakin hollow rods. i already switched from hollow to solid rods when TS came around and i liked it better so why go back? and those hard wooden handles just did not feel right, so i was foul on foos for awhile. went to community college and married around 89 and found and old DM in the gameroom there and played casually,then found one in the newspaper,played on it til i burned out cuz i really had noone to play that i couldn't smoke. moved in 93 and left it behind. meanwhile the years go by faster,the kid graduates in 97, God calls the missus home in 03,then last year while in a drunken haze(rare nowadays) on 100proof absinthe my buddy says hey there havin a foos tourney at the local small town bar. i get a lucky draw and win the money. i had a blast but realized how many things i couldn't do anymore so i came on here looking for the answers, found bb's buyers guide(thanks!) and the rest is history. i don't expect to be the best by any means, i just wanted to be able to play again without having to hang my head and be laughed out the door. my first dallas dyp i had to defend brendan moreland. sure we got beat but we didn't get skunked and i didn't get stuffed so hopefully it can only get better. damn am i writin a book here,lol.
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Jin, my last name is Hayes & I live in Wheaton. The DYPs at Q are 2nd & 4th Fridays. Haven't been lately due to working alot. FYI: April has 5 Fridays, therefore a BYP (4-30). I'm teamed up with Tony Pyto. I will look forward to meeting you sometime. I've learned alot of what I should be doing in modern foos from my friend Chase (Mindset Foosball). Please let me know if you ever want to play Bonzini. John
John:
Chase lives in my neck of the woods, really super guy. I wish he would come out to the DYP's once in a while...
Hopefully we can hook up sometime. I would love to play on a Bonzini...was thinking about getting one so the kids can putz around on it and not take a rod to the face.
Well I'll be at Q's tomorrow if you should ever make it out...bringing in some newbs from work, which I'm sure will be an eye opening experience for them.
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Jin,
I'll find you at Q's later. We can talk. Kids are invited if you think they may want a Bonzini test drive. John
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I started to play at 16-17 yrs of age. But I put myself behind two black balls: I use to play al-volo style (Italian, so passing, no pulling, no pushing style) and I left the game for 20 years. Then at 37 years of age I 'rediscovered' the game. For the last three years, I've been relearning how to play - 3-bar, 5-bar passing series, etc. It's my one true joy (besides my family of course). It's a way to keep the hopes alive. I think if you train hard and keep yourself in shape (healthy) there is no reason why you can't train to the pro and even pm level. Yes, speed is nice to have, but there are other aspects to the game that can compensate for the lack of it.
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Thanks guys, but foosball is on a slippery slop if you have read anything from the other boards
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MR.STEVE,
Don't worry about foosball, it's here to stay.
And you think you're too old? Thefirst thing you have to do is recognize that this is a forward dominated game. Even the best goalies have days when they can't block anything.
At this year's Runaway Bay tournament, one of the old guys came up to me with pretty much the same story. He couldn't do anything right and said he was going to quit. I know exactly what you and he are experiencing. It's the nature of the beast.
Don't put too much stock in ratings. Most of the top players in rookie aren't rookies, and it's pretty much the same story in each rank.
I think Ed Geer is right about Warrior being tougher on goalies. I have a hard time shooting from goal and in their quest to make the game easier, it seems every forward can make outlandish catches. Now every forward practically lives with the ball.
Knowing your opponent is probably the most important thing when playing goalie. It's tough to practice blocking at home. You need to get out and play a lot so you can learn what each players tendencies are. You can practice your shots and clears at home, but you need to get out in the crowd to learn to block. If a particular player is giving you problems, watch how other goalies defend against him, then try to incorporate it into your game.
Try to play mistake free. Clear the ball, grab rebounds and don't get down on yourself when you're not blocking. And never give up.
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aloha mr steve and old meister, i am 58 and im about to turn 59 i have been playing foosball for 50 years i started in 1959 in germany baumholder...i just played in the tourny in hilton waiakaloa on the big island of hawaii...i live in hilo on the same island...i use to play in tournament soccer back in the days...i helded the european championship for four years...i use to play with jim wizwell and doug furry from minnesota...i got schooled at hilton...i did place in one event i took third place...i knew i wasnt ready but i thought i would give it a go...i am never going to stop playing because i know i will win something...i have been practicing on my two tables i have downstairs...i have warrior tables i love them tables they are so good better then any other tables i have played on...dont feel bad it just takes time to warm up...just remember you are not going to lose all the time,,,you will win adventurlly...i hope to meet you guys one day and we could play together...in hawaii there is no body to play with other then my kids which they are good...i have be practicing my cobra shot and it is looking really good...i have always loved foosball and i will play as long as i can stand on my two feet and use my hands ...hawaii sends our love to all foosbll players...
aloha your friend
grandpa fooz
bruce silva and kids
oh my kids play foosball also.
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Bruce,
I met a young man that just moved there at the Tornado HOF. I will try to find his contact info. Of course there is Mark Askey and Frank Balecha from the Islands as well.
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Don't worry about foosball, it is like a religion to us. As long as there is a table to play on, there will be those of us that will gather in its name and play. We sometimes have as many as 10 or more players come to our local pub to play king-of-the-hill games, and only one or two are tournament players, the rest do it for the sheer fun and love of the game.
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I am getting ready to have another operation on my ("R") knee again because it got locked in a straight position... I cant bend it at all nor can I straighten it... I dred having to go thru that operation again... I get scared to get put under...you never know if you will make it out and wake up...I will probably be playing in the august tourny..I hope...my kids are getting better everyday and they just about ready for the tournament in august...
grandpa fooz
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I am getting ready to have another operation on my ("R") knee again because it got locked in a straight position... I cant bend it at all nor can I straighten it... I dred having to go thru that operation again... I get scared to get put under...you never know if you will make it out and wake up...I will probably be playing in the august tourny..I hope...my kids are getting better everyday and they just about ready for the tournament in august...
grandpa fooz
sorry to hear ,hope everything goes well ,have faith ,ill keep you in my prayers ,i wish for a speedy recovery!
-Ben (Texas)
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I HAVENT MET MARK OR THE OTHER GUY...IT DOESNT MATTER HOW GOOD YOU THINK YOU ARE YOU CAN ALWAYS GET BEAT...EVERYBODY HAS THEIR DAY IN THE LIME LIGHT. JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE GOOD, DONT THINK YOU WILL NEVER LOSE...I HAVE LOST TO SOME ROOKIES BEFORE JUST BY PURE LUCK...AND SLOP...WHEN YOU PLAY FOOSBALL JUST HAVE FUN DONT TRY TO ACT ALL BAD AND YOU ARE NEVER TO OLD TO PLAY HAVE FUN