Foosball.com Forums
Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: Old Meister on February 28, 2008, 08:15:01 PM
-
This has been brewing for a while. I think TS fostered the need for more skill than Tornados. Tornados seem to have a lessor parameter than the wide open game offered by TS. Ok, give it to me,,, :o
-
it depends on what you mean by "more skill" if you mean banks and angles then obviously the TS wins...if you mean development of over all foosball skills I don't think you can make the arguement
i will say that the TS was harder to play on in some ways...balls would stay true round and the table surfaces were not always totally level and since the men were connected by screws and bolts you had men getting loose more often and last the men were not balance so it was a trick to get a man to stay in the air
because of this, it made the table hard to play on and thus moving to other tables made for an easier adjustment...i remember the first time my foosbuds and I played on Dynamo, we were amazed at how well built it was, how good the balls were, and how level the table was
but, I think to make the arguement that a person can get better "skills" TS, Tornado, Bonzini, Garlando, Tech Ball, shows a lack of understanding of the overall game of foosball
Fredrico is the best player ever and he got there playing on every table and now dominates on every table and has for over 10 years
i think it is easy to make an arguement about which table is has the best build quality but the rest is very subjective...great players have emerged from every table...
every table has its own unique strengths and limitations the game is changing with the advent of the ITSF and a good player is being defined by a player that can dominate on every kind of table they step up to
the day of staying true to one table are starting to crumble and I for one am glad...I loved my days on TS but I really apprecaite Tornado too for many different reasons...I would love to have access to Bonzini and the others to help strengthen, challenge, and eventually define my game
Fred is the prototype now and he is the man of all tables...I for one won't be cornered into taking sides for any table but I will take sides on quality and standards but that is a post for another day
rock on Tornado, TS, Techball, Bonzini, Garlando, Roberto, Rossengart, Leonhart, Dynamo, and every other talbe that players all around the world adopt
-
I knew I could draw you in on this BBtuna. Look at what the play is, snake and pull, period! I hear complaints about Tornados all the time, I didn't ever hear it about TS tables unless it was about the changes in configuration. The play was consistent what ever the configuration was for that configuration. How much of the TS tours are you familiar with? Regardless, the game was wide open. You didn't copy 4 or 5 top players, you did your thing.
-
well put om snake and pull period thats all ya see from the vidios of the top pros what do's amaze me of todays play is the five row passing was it like that on ts back in the day i played ts but from a little town in montana it was never that good but never seen any top pros back then but boy the range of shots ya had was a lot more on ts for me anyway
-
Which player would adapt easier?
A-player plays on the Toronado table ten years and then has to adapt to the TS table. Would he stay at the same level or regress, or be much better?
B-player plays on the TS table ten years and then has to adapt to the Toronado table. Would he stay at the same level or regress, or be much better?
-
I would say player B, a tornado coin opp to me is the better table then the brown top ts, todays ts are a joke ( BLACK TOP ) not a fan of the three man goalie and if they would just get rid of that side strip that runs down the side i think it would bring back the bank shot on tornado
to me there was a lot less slop on ts do to single man goalie and not the speed ya see on tornado,all that said i love my tornado
-
Hopefully the man modifications in addition to the new ball and table modifications that Tornado is planning on releasing after the HOF Classic in Vegas will bring back some of the old-timer shots lost over the years. The single biggest reason banks aren't as easy on Tornado is the weight of the rod. Tornado is so much faster than TS its not even close. The new ball I have been testing is a shade heavier or denser. It also does not seem to be as hard. It may very well be the ticket if it doesn't slow down a pull or push to much.
Oh yah player b will and has been more successful. I think Lott, Simon, Furry, Murray, Head, Bowers, Lofredo, Bacon and many others have already proven that theory. They all were champions on TS and moved to Tornado and won there as well.
-
OM, you are right, I will bite anytime someone says something crazy ;D
you started your thread with which table would create more "skill"...I said it depended on how you define "skill" - apparently you define it as the table which creates the largest variety of shots
during TS days there was a wider variety of shots on the 3 bar and certainly banks from goal added an exciting dynamic to the game (that I for one miss badly)
but that wasn't your question...you didn't say, which table allowed for and/or promoted the most variety of shots in tournament play...obviously, TS in its hey day is the answer to that question
but if you have ever seen the things that Billy Pappas, Tommy Adkinson, Rob Atha, Tony Spredeman, Todd Loffredo, Tom Yore, Fernando DeRosa, Brandon Moreland, Johnny Horton, Trevor Park, Robert Mares, Sergie Aragones, Trad Powell, Terry Rue, and others, (not to mention Fredrico) can do on Tornado...this conversation becomes really a discussion about angles and banks and some of these guys can pull those off too just not as consistently as on the TS
have you ever seen Tommy put the 2 bar at deadman and then have some one compress the bumper as much as possible and then he rips dead after dead some without looking...or his sling shot, or Billy shooting everything, Tony's push from goal and front not to mention his walking snake or Rob's sling shots from every rod, or Tom Yores and Terry Rue's tic tak, Johnny Horton (and others) backpin, and Todd who can and will do anything from any rod at any moment (he went through an entire tournament where he shot a Europin...same with Fred except he will do anything from any rod at any moment and from either hand
I think your discussion needs to be which table creates a more open and diverse game in serious tournament play…because in pick up games, trick shots, and the like the guys listed above can rock the house with stuff that is stunning
And besides, who is to say, if TS had lasted this entire time, 26 years later, that the game still wouldn’t have been boiled down to primarily pull and rollover (well and of course the most winning 3 bar shot in the last 10 years on any table the Fredfreakco Euro Pin)
I think we would see a few more pull and pushkicks than today but not that many because it is hard on your arm and it is much harder (even with all the angles available) to have a world class level shot with them – I am however, convinced that you would see several backpins at the top of the game but alas, no one will take the time and make the commitment to show case the best shot in foosball
-
Ed, just becasue players went from TS to Tornado and were successful doesn't mean it couldn't happen the other way just as well...we haven't seen the reverese...all we can say for sure is that really great players can be really great on any table they play on given enough time to adjust
all due respect, i don't think banks biggest issue is rod weight...just bump a ball against the wall and watch it jump...now rod weight may be right up there but in addition the TS ball was much much lighter than the current ball used on Tornado
you said the composit of the Tornado ball is going to change? what weight difference are you talking about and how is the texture going to change...I would love a little softer for more control but that means jumpier and the ball won't ware as long
-
It has more to do with reation time and kinetic energy of the heavier rod. You didn't have to swing as fast to get the same energy and speed on the ball. Also, as I stated before, the reation time on Tornado is at least twice as fast as it was on the solid rods of TS. It is easier to catch up to a bank on Tornado because the rods move faster and with less effort.
Finally, I can not think of one person that started playing on Dynamo or Tornado won a championship then played on TS and won a championship there. Maybe, Simons maybe. Thats it, all those I mentioned eralier started on TS.
I think that becasue Tornado was such a much better machine, those of us that started playing on them wouldn't put in the time or effort to learn to play on the piece of crap TS table. Also, Tornado and Dynamo were founded here in Texas and TS never was able to make a foothold. Vendors would try TS tables and after 6 to 12 months have to replace them because how they were built, most would buy the Dynamo or Tornado instead knowing the machines would last 3 to 5 times longer. I beleave this is why you never saw Tornado to TS crossovers.
-
well that and TS didn't stay dominant long enough...Tornado and Dynamo just out lasted TS as a company and as a table....all those players you metioned made the transition to the other tables because there was no other choice, if the shoe was on the other foot, I am sure it would be true in that direction as well
i think it is about the player, not the table...any good player can move from one table to another...look at Todd and look a Rico
-
the Table doesnt have much to do with wether a tour is successful or not, its the promotion of the game. The Toronado table is a well built table but has limited opions. The TS table was a good table but had room for improvements such as the screws in the men. You cant compare Toronado succes and TS's success as far as promotion of the game. The players skill level is the same. There is only one way that Foosball will ever achieve tour status and that is if THE PLAYERS themselves own the rights to the tour table. Any promoter trying to reach tour status by table sales will fail.
-
Smlyer,
welcome to the board, good thoughts, a little off topic but still very relevant to the game today
i see you have been reading that other board a bit...I don't agree with that assesment (wow, that is a surprise no one was ready for that surprise :P)
look at successful sports models...Baseball, Football, Basketball...each has a League which "owns" the sport and it is not manufacture specific and each is balanced with a powerful players association
this is the formula that has proven to work but that is a long way off for us because no one can figure out a way for making money so there is no National Foosball League - no leadership driving what is best for the entire League...no protection of the asset becasue there is no asset - no power by the players because the stakes aren't high enough to make them unite
for now, until foosball is much much bigger, a manufacturer jumping into promotion is a good thing - anyone who loves the sport and will try their best to drive its growth even if it means money in their pocket...hopefully Mary will survive and grow while ITSF grows ---
if the sport itself can grow in popularity by 10 or 20 times world wide (literally), then maybe we would have a chance of finding a way of becoming a legit sport...until then, we need to take what we can get
-
I came from the TS table to tornado my game is faster my old shots catch people by suprise they act like they never saw a pushkick I just cant shoot a back pin on them.I dont think the game will get the respect it had ,I see Pro`s dressed like bums on utube wheres the dress code we need to represent...
-
Remember my post about an idea where the player configured his own rods and men and dropped them into the table. A table with a lock down from the top where the bushings, rod, men and handles are all as per that player's design and need. So you go to a tournament with your own weaponry. Now THAT would bring about the best configuration and it would be real interesting to see what it is.
BBtuna, yes I was relating to the fact that more shot types were used effectively thus wider knowledge AND SKILLS were employed.
-
OM,
i get it - we will just have to agree to disagree...I don't think being able to shoot more shots in competive play makes a person more knowledgable or skilled
-
First off the goalie had better be because he's going to have shots coming at him from lot's of different directions so he better be well versed in blocking those different shots. And then the front man has so many ways to attack a defense with much higher percentage shots. The game becomes multidimensional not so one dimensional. We've argued about the 3 men on the goalie rod, on Tornados the wing men up front are only used for catching the ball and passing to the center man other than defense. At the top only one man is used for offense, the center man up front.
-
first off, in those days it was 80% pulls and maybe 10% pushkick, 5% pullkick, and 5% other (backpin or whatever) at highest level of tournament play ... just because things could be done doesn't mean they were
today it is 70% rollover, 20% pull, 5% other (this would include Fred's Euro Pin)...so tournament shots are now broken into 3 main groups instead of 4...the players of yesterday didn't have to face the rollover or the walking rollover or Fred's Eruo Pin and they played on a table where the goal was much smaller...I think it is much harder to play great defense against a rollover than pushkick (assuming the defender is familiar with both)...and most pushkicks (not all, most) pushkicks could be raced...so it could be argued that today's goalies face a more difficult challenge than the past goalies
the goalie today has to know how to deal with the wing men on the goalie rod and all the pros and cons that they bring and the player of yesterday never even dreamed of this
and even if I granted your premise that TS goalies had to employ more stuff, this doesn't mean they knew more or were more highly skilled, it only means they dealt with things most players don't deal with today, but as I started to illustrate above, the same could be said of today's players verses TS players
Today's top players have to deal with and "know" tons of things TS players never had to deal with and the reverse could be said of the TS players...all of today's top players (and those coming up behind them) are all second generation players who have been playing since they were very young...by the time these people are 18 they have played longer than the TS tour existed and the knowledge built by the previous generation and years and years of tournament experience give them insights and knowledge TS players could only dream of
I am not saying I think today's players at their best are better than TS players at their best, I am just trying to illustrate that the entire argument about one table from an entirely different generation producing better skilled or more knowledgeable players is erroneous
What you can say without argument is that the build design of the TS table allowed for angles and banks being done consistently which created dynamics we don’t see in today’s game…that’s it
Now, I want to see Tornado (or some other table) redesigned to allow for banks and angles without taking away the current strengths of the Tornado table but that in no way is an argument that tables that allow those things produce more knowledgeable or more skilled players
-
if they modified the table to allow banks youd see more banks, if they made aerials legal youd see aerials..but im with b on this the top players would still shoot pull shots and would still shoot snake shots....at the local and smaller tourneys youd see more diversity, at the big ones snakes and pulls...and a europin...lol.....i hope they do make the table mods. so all the ts players can shoottheir bread and butter shots....because id learn them too and shoot them when im playing for sh**s and giggles. Not to disrespect any old timers but I cant think of a major sport today that skill wise isnt far more advanced than 20-30 years ago...And the old pros in those sports will tell u the same....Its the evolution of the game...which unfrortunately to many of you, means evolution of the equipment and whether your willing to change with it and accept it is up to you.....
That cracking noise i hear is the opening of a can of worms....that breathe fire...lol
-
Lol, worms were always good for fishing and (trolling). The limited area of effective play is just that, limited. No need to go further because the table limits what works. THAT doesn't make those that play within those limits MORE skilled. Just more skilled on that table. So i guess we can argue apples and oranges all day long. I think if the changes that Ed is talking about come into play this discussion will have alot more merit. When elements are added in to the effective play then you will see how diversity in the game is a good thing and DOES add to the skill level.
-
I dont really know cause I have never seen any of the great old TS players... but who has the better 5 bar???
Today's players or the older TS players? Again I dont know, but from what I have heard... todays players 5bars would crush the old schools 5bars...
The main fact about foosball is... that if you have a better 5bar, the majority of the time you are going to win.... just law of averages... you get the ball more=you shoot more=you score more...
Has any of the old TS players ever seen anyone far-side tic-tac like Tony, or stick pass like Billy, or brush like Fredrico???
-
Granted, the flat sides of the Tornado men make it easy to tic tac. But to answer your question, yes, those passes were used although they weren't as easy to do on TS tables so you might not keep tic tac-ing as it was risky. These passing skills didn't originate on Tornados, trust me.
-
by FAR leaps and bounds the ,ost difficult thing to learn and master is the 5 bar.....i got a pretty damn good shot pretty fast but could never get it up front to shoot....for the last year all ive worked is my five bar and it takes so much time and patience....but its coming around.....I think the table type has an effect on the types of passes....cant offer any opinion on how they passed then compared to now....never saw then....
OM i really hope they can find a way to modifiy the men to open up the game..but I also hope the mods dont completely close down other aspects that make Tornado Table soccer so damn fun....
-
Todd Loffredo has lived through all eras and seen at the top level 5 bars...he says the defense now is better...he said when he started his 5 bar was unique but that they have become more complicated (as a whole) which, by extension, is why defenses have had to improve over the years
with that said, there were far wall passers in TS days so that didn't originate with Tony...I saw Tom Spear in those days, widley considered one of the best 5's of all time, but don't remember what his 5 was like but then I got to see some video of his 5 in early 90s - he had a very unique very smooth 5 bar and he could (and did) move from far wall to near wall and was just as effective on either wall
Todd was never known for having a killer 5 but it is still good and he can usually get the ball when he wants to...Jeep was just getting started at getting real good at the tail end of TS but started early on TS and wound up with one of the top all time 5 bars (also a far wall)
and then there was Johnny Horton another cross-over every table guy who has always had a very unique 5 bar
even if TS would have allowed you to tick tak better I don't think top players in those days would have used tick tak because they were playing a style which tried to maximise execution especially in high pressure situtations
I think the 5 bars today are generally more complicated offensively but I am not convinced they are more effective...I think if we could take the best 5 bars on TS at their peak and drop them into the mix on Tornado (assuming they had time to get used to the table differences) I am sure they would still tear people up...I am not as certain the other way around because I don't think Tony and Billy could use their current primary passing style on TS so they would have to learn something new...that said, I think they are good enough that if they really wanted to, they could learn a new way
Fred is a freak and can already do anything on any table and would make the transition instantly and would be just as effective as he is today - I mean, he already plays on TS like tables and wins everything everytime - he is Fredfreako
-
This is just my opinion so take it for what it is worth. The reason there were so many shots back in the day is because foosball was in it's infancy. People did not have a map to follow. People would come from out of nowhere and win open doubles, or open singles and noone even knew who they were. That never happens anymore. The pull shot was met with the same kind of skeptisism and ridicule as the snake because it was a more consistant shot. THE GAME HAS EVOLVED! If people were still playing on TS tables the pull and snake would still be the most shot shots today. Consistancy is what wins period! There is nothing wrong with kicks, or back pins, or any other shot, except that they dont score a high enough percentage to compete, never have, never will. I know im gonna have people disagree with that statement, but if you add up all the shots that have won just majors, it is greatly against shots other than pullshot, or a front pin even from the ts days. Not to mention you also have to be able to shoot a shot that will allow you to be able to make it till the 3rd, 4th, or 5th day of a tournament. The only thing that is even a plausable argument is the bankshot from goal, and it can be done on a tornado table, but the extra men in goal do get in the way on blocking it. Defenses today are better, and fiverow offences, and defenses are definately better. The overall level of play has definately improved over the past 15 years, so I'm sure it has improved over the past 30. The Dynamo table banked just fine, and you could shoot multiple shots on it, and it became a primary pullshot table because people wanted to win so they went with consistancy. The one man goal is a bad design because of being able to use the back wall for rebound passes. the game will get more offensive without the wing men. Players are definately not ready for YET ANOTHER TABLE REDESIGN.
Scott Liley
-
Scott,
good to see you on the board...good post...I would disagree on the Dynamo banks from goal thing...there are a number of plausable reasons people moved to the pull having nothing to do with how "consistant" they were...you said you can shoot a bank on Tornado but not consistantly which is true and which is the reason people don't shoot them like they did in the TS days because on TS you could count on the bank going where you wanted every time you shot it...
you could get consistent angles on Dynamo but the rods were light and flexed enough that the ball jumped much more on that table than it ever did on TS...also, there was a stigma among some players that banks were bad and/or stupid...as a whole that was not true on TS but it clearly was true on Dynamo
alter Tornado enough to do banks consistently/accurately and it will only be a matter of time before they become a normal part of the game
you say players aren't for "YET ANOTHER TABLE REDESIGN" what redesign are you talking about? Are you referring to Tornado's constant tinkering and manufacturing cost saving ideas? I don't see any true "redesign" since the brown marble...each table plays a little differently but I think that is more because Tornado has been trying to save money and because they don't have good control over manufacturing
it would be great to get a manufacture who could spend some real RD on table design, physics, engineering and build a cost no object table which could become the model where the players table is created from...trickle down like is down in high-end audio
anyway, good to have on the board, I know there are a number of players on here who could really benefit from your knowledge and skill
bbt
charles
-
Consistancy has everything to do with the way the game has evolved. Players are not going to go into a big tournament shooting a shot that scores 60% if they can shoot something else that scores 80% unless they don't care about winning. The bottom line is tournament play is about consistancy and exacution, and not about being able to hit 15 different shots that dont score a high percentage. It doesnt matter how many shots you have if your opponent scores 5 first every game.
The bank shot doesn't hop because of the lighter rods. I've heard its the ball, the side strip, foot of the man etc... I believe alot has to do with the hard table surface. Just like in pool, a good table with 2 1/2 slate you hit down on the qball to do a jump shot, the harder the surface the easier it bounces. The tornado table hits down on the ball causing it to bounce. The good banking tables today have weak tops that you can actually push down, like the Bonzini, it has like a lenoleum surface. Why was the bankshot frowned on during dynamo?
-
why is was the bank shot frowned on? well, same reason a lot of people today don't like them...it is a cultural thing...a group of people decide it is stupid, hacking, not real foosball and it spreads...just like many people used to feel about shooting from the 5 bar...people actually got in fights thinking it was cheating and bush league
people feel the same way about the bank shot even today
i think the point of the original post wasn't about individuals shooting all kinds of shots during a game but that there was more variety in the field...there were top players who shot pushkicks, pullkicks, pulls, and I hear in the early 80's some backpins...i don't agree with the arguement I am just saying...the idea of finding a high percentage shot and pass were born in the early part of the game
the players back then swore by that and I had it drilled into me...the players could all do everything if they were goofing around (just like today) but when it came to serious tournament foos, there was no goofing around...you stuck with the basics, cut down on variables and potential for error...you wanted to do the simplist best executed things (smartly of course) especially the greater the pressure got
most TS players would have considered (at least the ones I hung out with) a 5 bar shot a waste of possesion because the percentages were too low and it was thought of as a sort of desperation hack shot done by those who didn't know anything
I know there are a number of dynamics that go into why the ball lifts frequently on the Tornado but the strip is definately a big part of it...all you need to do is bounce the ball off the wall and watch how it jumps up off the table surface and then back back down again...do it with the near man 3 rod and just dribble the ball off the wall and see how it jumps and how much more it jumps the harder you hit it...i am not saying removing it would fix the issue, there are more things working but it is a big part
-
Rios. When I first read your post I dissagreed with you, then I reread it and realized you admit that you dont know. Let me say this. I have played with the "old school" greats and against most of the "best" of today. Its not the table that we should consider, its the player himself. New age players think that in the old days they played with lopsided rocks for balls but I tend to lean that the old school "greats " had better five-man. On that table one could do more options and Yes old school players have seen the tic-tac. lol we invented it! and the lane stick, and every pass you see today. If there is such a gap between old school and New age, then why are there still alot of oldschoolers still competing, if you think about that , it doesnt say too much for New age. lol. I played back then and I have a better five-man than 90% of todays pro masters. Heres another thing to consider how often do todays players actually practice? Long ago when there was alot of money in this game we practiced and worked on our games constantly. I dont care what kind of table we play on I will still rise to the top level because of my skills......
-
I believe that you probably know more about the 5bar talent from the old schoolers... just merely cause I never got to see the best of the best. But you say that there are alot of "old schoolers" competing... well... how many of them are in the top 10 in the world that still play front? I honestly dont know who all came up with what table... I know obviously that Loffredo was there with TS, but he is primarily a back guy. Was Dave G.? Horton obviously was, but then again, he is not anywhere near the top 10. I am not sure about Terry Moore, I thought he came around with the Dynamo. Tracy M.??? Again I am not 100% sure, but how many of the top 10 or top 25 in the world are from the old TS days???
I totally agree with you that yesterdays players probably practice more than today's just merely due to the fact that there was so much more money in the game back then.
The fact is, it is impossible to determine which players were better. Which players would have been able to adjust to each others tables better... it is all just opinion. I really wish I could have seen the old schoolers play just to see what their styles were...
I am not trying to take anything away from the old schoolers. Just merely curious...
-
I think Dave Gummy's finish in worlds last year would have to be considered competing. lol. Even though Todd plays goalie for the best player in the world, he still can compete in other events. Horton could still compete. Terry M. and Tracy were not around back in the late 70's, if they were they didnt do much. Also the rankings and ratings today are a joke, they are definitely not a true indication of a players true rating. Half the good players today dont even travel to the Worldchampionships. As far as adusting to another table the answer is "how good is the player" whether an old schooler or new age. I have won on every table I have played on. Green top , Blue top, Brown top , selti, Dynamo, Toronado, Legend. Adjusting takes about 20 minutes. In my opinion the Toronado is the easiest table to pass on, the TS is the easiest to score on. I know your not pushing an opinion, just thought I would trade some thoughts with you. lol. Watch me play sometime. If you love different styles you will enjoy my game. Rick Martin.
-
Rick Martin, droppin by, that is an honor...thanks for stopping in - your insights and perspectives are always quality
I was fortunate enough to see you play my first go around with foosball...you were a monster and the talk about your ability in singles buzzed around a tournament room and I think that was true not just for up and comers like me and my friends but among the best in the world at the time
I have always found this old school new school arguement to be rarely balanced...the new school leans toward new and old school leans toward old players or table...I have never heard a compelling arguement to sell me on the dominance of either era - table or players
I believe that if you took the top players at the top of their game, with the incentives that were around during the TS/foosball explosion (money and fame) of the 70's, and dropped them onto any table, they would all compete as well as at any time during the games history...the only player I think might transend that is Fred but we will never know...to see you compete with Fred when you were at the top of your game would have been a trip
anyway, I think the big differences between yesterday and today is that in the beginning there was money and fame and so the players were 100% dedicated and buried themselves in the game and so discovered how far the game could go (up until it died) today, the players start much younger, play many more years, and get the benefit of the information discovered by the first generation of players
only one player in either generation has sustained making foosball their full time profession for more than 4 or 5 years and that is Fred which is why, in my opinion, that he dominates still after 10 years
but if you took Billy and Tony and Terry and some others and dropped them into a situation where they could play full time, make the kind of money you could make in the 70's (relative to today), and foosball was the talk of the town (on TV and in newspapers as the rage) we would all see some crazy levels of foosball
this comparing one era verses another is fun and it is done in all sports all the time but in the end, there is no way to prove people's theories, regardless of how logical or experienced they are, one way or the other
some people will not come to grips with this and will battle on trying to prove the dominance of one over the other and that is part of the fallout of debates like this but in the end, it is all just opinion and can not be proved
for me, I am proud to have been able to see you and other greats play at your best and I am glad you are still in the game these years later....I hope to see you more on this board in the days ahead and maybe sometime before I pass, I will have the good fortune of being able to play you one on one not to prove my skill but to play with one of the best foosball players of all time
-
By the way Fred learned on a solid rod TS clone. LOL
-
Fred learned on everything...notice the only table you don't see is the Tornado which is the only table he keeps upstairs in his house to play on regularly LOL
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24345876@N05/2310950716/
-
You have to have it hosted somewhere like www.flickr.com. Then to post a link using the HTML insert image hotlink button. It is right below the Italics button on the post reply page. A flickr account is free.
-
Ed,
thanks, that worked as a link...I appreciate the help
what about posting a picture right in the thread like I have seen done many times before?
-
holy f***ing trophies.....very impressive.....hmmmm id like to draw his name in a tourney...just sit back and watch....wish there were more videos out on him...but not too much..think ive seen most
-
LOL......."sit back and watch" ......lol .....if you think you can just sit back and watch ... your mistaken....I dont think you would do that...If you thiink about it, everyone in the Foos world knows hes the best player on the planet today...they play there haredest against him.......when you draw him ..{which I have} ..you have to play under the pressure of possibly being the only one in history he didnt win with....lol....thats alot of pressure....
-
that picture is almost 3 years old so the hardware has continued to mount and he was obviously out of room then
-
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/2310950716_9a49583381.jpg?v=0)
Just right click the pic on flickr, copy the link and imbed it between the "{img}http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/2310950716_9a49583381.jpg?v=0{/img}" Replace the { with [
-
....wish there were more videos out on him...but not too much...
Hmmm... where might one find additional video of Fred? Hmmm... Someone help me out here... I just can't think of anyplace... Hmmm... ::)
-
Alright Brad be nice --->
Chance follow this link it will take you to hour upon hours of Fredrico playing on Tornado.
http://WWW.INSIDEFOOS.COM (http://WWW.INSIDEFOOS.COM)
I'm not sure how many there are of him on other tables.http://
-
Ice Man opps, I mean Brad (sorry guys) is being funny because he doesn't want to state the obvious or sound like a shrill but there are at least 10 years of Tornado Worlds and other tournaments available with all the Fred you want to see at Inside Foos Productions...it isn't free but it is really good and worth the investment if you want to get better
you will not only see Fred, but you will see all the best in the US and the last couple of years they have been adding in Euro tournaments so you see Euro players and other tables
this is one of the links you need to keep handy http://www.insidefoos.com/
-
should have clarified........Free videos......FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE/GOTTASELL MORECUSTOMERSATWORK/togetmoremoney%SOICANBUYVIDEOS%SOICANBESUPERGOOD.COM
-
there is a ton of video on the you tube, it isn't great quality and it is shorter bites and you have to hunt for it but if you want free then that is the place to go
if you want quality, quanity, ease of selection, personal customer service, and the ability to watch anything you want any time you want then you want
INSIDE FOOS PRODUCTIONS
http://www.insidefoos.com/
-
I have to agree. Jim Stevens is the BOMB! You will not be disappointed.
-
ive seen all the videos on you tube and I mean all.....probably about a thousand times...but I will l;ook into getting some tournaments Jim does at inside foos in the future,,thanks