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Chat Area => General Chat => Topic started by: fis on January 04, 2011, 04:41:49 PM

Title: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 04, 2011, 04:41:49 PM
Newbie looking for buying advice:  I am considering getting a foosball table for our basement, and while I doubt anybody in the family will ever become a tournament player, I do want to buy something that will provide durability and high-quality play for some time, and with luck have some resale value someday.  I have no aversion to buying used. 

Other than that, my only criteria are:
1) Wife wants a wood finish
2) 15-year-old son insists on a model with one goalie -- not three.  Apparently he's played on some different tables at school and finds defense too easy with three goalies.

Having searched this wonderful forum, I see lots of advice on models to buy -- most I've looked up with the exception of the Bonzini models show three goalies.

Or are they all customizable or do some one one goalie and some have three?  I really have no idea.  If it's the latter, what are the pros/cons of each?
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 04, 2011, 04:46:54 PM
Right after posting this question, I saw this link (http://foosdirect-store.stores.yahoo.net/stylesofplay.html), which helps explain, but I'd still like to hear your advice!
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: Old Meister on January 04, 2011, 04:58:55 PM
Fis, just to protect your investment should your son's interest die out, buy Tornado. Those tables won't lose value as long as you take reasonable care of them. Then there is the next reason, should you and your son want to get good, buy Tornado, you will be able to play anybody that is good. Buying a cheap table will never prepare you for a good player on a Tornado, just won't happen because Tornado tables are so precise in what works or doesn't. You came to this site and asked and I have no financial interest at all in your decision but I like to help grow our sport and I am pointing you toward the path that will offer the best result no matter how it goes. The thing about a 3 man goalie vs a 1 man goalie is pretty minor really. It's all in what you get used to but doesn't have that much bearing on skills and that is what you really want to focus on, not what makes it easier on a beginner level. I hope you both get into it and have a blast.
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 04, 2011, 05:07:31 PM
Thanks Old Meister.  Are the rod/men customizable?  Or if I buy Tornado am I committed to 3 goalies?

As for brand, I take the advice seriously, but is Tornado the only brand to consider (and if so, will any Tornado do)?
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: alaskan thunder on January 04, 2011, 06:18:07 PM


As for brand, I take the advice seriously, but is Tornado the only brand to consider (and if so, will any Tornado do)?

Yes, (No) , search around for a few minutes and you will find the answers...
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 04, 2011, 06:41:33 PM


As for brand, I take the advice seriously, but is Tornado the only brand to consider (and if so, will any Tornado do)?

Yes, (No) , search around for a few minutes and you will find the answers...
Honestly I have searched, but remain confused because the model names are all over the place (I assume because they have changed over the years).  

Clearly the T-3000 or Coin-ops are recommended as top-end models, but if I don't want to spend that much, then it starts to get quite confusing.  I've seen Sport, Classic, Elite, Cyclone, Cyclone II, Storm, Storm II, Hurricane, 25th Anniversary, Whirlwind, T2000, and F-5.  (I've also seen some recommendations on here for other brands including Garlando & Bonzini).  

Are the goalies configurable on the Tornados?  Somebody nearby is selling a Cyclone II for $750.
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: Chase Pennell on January 05, 2011, 12:02:57 AM
Fis,

I will try to help. This is a common question to a degree. When it comes to the Tornado, the next question is price. How much are you looking to spend?

Cheapest Option: Get a used Tornado Whirlwind. It is an "ok" table and is not very expencive. I am sure i am going to catch a little flack for this but, it is what i learned to get good on. You can get competative playing on it. It is not perfect but it isnt bad. Expect to pay about $200-300

Better Option: Storm II or Used Coin-Op. You can get one of these for about $300-600 depending on what you get. If you get a storm NEVER pay more than $400 personally that is a little high. If you look around Craigs list you can find a used one for pretty cheap.

Perfection: If you really want to get into it you can get a newer coin-op and they will run you about $1,300. But from what i hear you are not looking for this.

Here is the bottom line, where ever you go; to a bar, a touring players house, or just want to say that you have the same table the pros use. Tornado is the only way to go. The other tables are just toys. (Sorry Bonzini guys,  that table is nice but for me it is a toy, and yes i love playing on Bonzini).  

Have a good one! Let me know if you need anything else! Thanks!

 
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 05, 2011, 01:22:24 AM
Thanks Chase.  Very much appreciated.

Regarding price, I'll spend what I need to for something that will last, but was hoping it would be in the hundreds.  The lower the better obviously.  Should I take it from your response that this one isn't worth the $? http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/for/2142574994.html (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/for/2142574994.html).  

Also since my son is hell-bent on a single goalie, can a Tornado be configured that way?

PS - Interesting.  I found a Tornado Coin-op listed for $600 that looks nice in the photos but it's 2 hours away. What questions do I need to ask to know whether it's in good shape before driving all the way up there?
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: papafoos on January 05, 2011, 09:43:25 AM
I think Tornado still makes a conversion kit for a one man goalie.  I'd try to get him to reconsider.

I got to play on the 3 man goalie before it was ever put on the market.  I thought McCloud had made a mistake, but once I got used to them, it's what I prefer now.

If he finds playing goalie too easy, you need to get him on the tour.  Goalies lead a tough life.  Getting pounded can really get to some people.  Even the best goalies get pounded occasionally.  It's a good lesson on life though.  Just pick up the pieces and play the next ball.
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: Chase Pennell on January 05, 2011, 02:13:26 PM
Fis,

Trust me on this, ignor your son. I know that he wants a 1 man goalie, But at the end of the day it is not a good table. Yes, you can purchase a conversion kit. Not sure where, but i have seen them. And NO do not buy that table. WAY over priced. I would offer about $400 AT MOST! or it. But it is not worth that kind of money.

Here is the thing your son is playing on a table that is not a tour table, and NO ONE plays on. If your son gets into foosbal which it sounds like he might you will want a tornado.
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 05, 2011, 02:33:40 PM
Fis,

Trust me on this, ignor your son. I know that he wants a 1 man goalie, But at the end of the day it is not a good table. Yes, you can purchase a conversion kit. Not sure where, but i have seen them. And NO do not buy that table. WAY over priced. I would offer about $400 AT MOST! or it. But it is not worth that kind of money.

Here is the thing your son is playing on a table that is not a tour table, and NO ONE plays on. If your son gets into foosbal which it sounds like he might you will want a tornado.
Thanks message heard, I will try to sell him on Tornado.  When you say do not buy that table are you referring to the first one (Cyclone II which I realize is overpriced at $750) or the Coin-op models (I found one for $500 and one for $600).  I thought one of those might be a good find.
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: Chase Pennell on January 05, 2011, 04:01:11 PM
If you find a coin op in good condition for 500 get it! That is a good deal!
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 05, 2011, 04:47:37 PM
If you find a coin op in good condition for 500 get it! That is a good deal!
It sounds like a good deal but I'm so new at this it's hard for me to tell from photos.  The owner describes it as "very solid."  Says he bought it several years ago, and it had previously been in a bar. 
It is described as including locks w/keys, money box, cover, and "original legs and hardware" with "good bearings" and "no bent rods."  Counter shows 8600 plays. There are some nicks on the legs, "several small ships on the outside paneling," and the head missing from one of the players.  The handles also look pretty worn to me.  Photos here: http://flickr.com/gp/ableman/54w604 (http://flickr.com/gp/ableman/54w604)  What do you think?
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: snake eyes on January 05, 2011, 04:54:22 PM
Fis- this table doesn't look too bad to me...yes the handles's are worn, it's a blonde so expect some wear. I don't see too many nicks in the cabinet and the legs look really pretty good considering the age. If you can snag that table for $400.00 that would be a great deal. Chase and I are on the same page with you here and I think he will agree on the price.


Snake
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: snake eyes on January 05, 2011, 04:58:14 PM
The bars do look suspiciously rusty in these pictures...and rust usually means water, I didn't see that in my first look. check the playing surface out real well for uneven spots. And if those bars are covered in rust expect about $200-$250 to replace them. I may have changed my mind here,,,Chase thoughts?
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 05, 2011, 05:09:58 PM
Thanks again.  I know in one of the photos the rods look rusty but in the others they don't.  I've asked the seller a follow up question about the condition of those rods.  The table's several hours from here so I can't just drive over for a look.
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 05, 2011, 07:06:26 PM
Well this seller is nothing if not responsive.  I asked some more detailed questions about the condition and got a bunch of new close-up photos of the rods (now uploaded to the same link) along with this explanation:
Quote
I took some more pictures, trying to get close ups of the areas you are concerned with... the marks on the laminate near the yellow goalies is actually really old scotch tape.  I scraped most of it off with my thumbnail and tomorrow I'll try to get the rest of it up, but there is no damage to the actual laminate.  The rods did have some minor surface rust between the men when we first got the table - (not on the actual part that runs through the bearings in the side of the table).  I buffed the rust and polished the bars and when you touch them, they are smooth, but there are some cosmetic blemishes on some of the rods.

As far as the condition, this is not a new, pristine table.  It's been used in a bar and then in my home, so it does have a couple of "dings" on the outside and a couple on the bottom of the legs (I think you can see them in the pictures, but I can take close ups of them if you want) and some minor cosmetic blemishes.  It plays fantastic and is in good condition!  If you're looking for a table that sparkles in a brand new game room, then this might not be the table for you, but if you want a great working table that's a little worn, then this is it.

I hope this helps you decide and if you have any other questions or would like more pictures ( I can probably get better ones in the day light tomorrow) please don't hesitate to ask. 
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 05, 2011, 10:53:27 PM
OMG OMG this just popped up tonight on Craigslist (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tag/2145803859.html (http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tag/2145803859.html)) and it's 10 minutes from my house.  A miracle of timing.  I have an appointment to see it at 8:00am and I'm bringing cash.  Wish me luck!
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: Alan Cribbs on January 06, 2011, 01:56:27 AM
Quote
Newbie looking for buying advice:  I am considering getting a foosball table for our basement, and while I doubt anybody in the family will ever become a tournament player, I do want to buy something that will provide durability and high-quality play for some time, and with luck have some resale value someday.  I have no aversion to buying used. 

Other than that, my only criteria are:
1) Wife wants a wood finish
2) 15-year-old son insists on a model with one goalie -- not three.  Apparently he's played on some different tables at school and finds defense too easy with three goalies.

Having searched this wonderful forum, I see lots of advice on models to buy -- most I've looked up with the exception of the Bonzini models show three goalies.

Or are they all customizable or do some one one goalie and some have three?  I really have no idea.  If it's the latter, what are the pros/cons of each?

Let's see here:

Bonzini has the real and natural wood finish your wife request.
Bonzini has the 1-man goalie which 95% of the world plays on.
Bonzini can customize the player figurine to your specifications.
Bonzini has not changed their table design in the past 60 years. So you don't have to worry about upgrading.
Bonzini has telescopic rods so you do not have to worry about kids "spearing" each other.
And it's the only foosball table that has actually appreciated in value over the past 10 years.

Pretty much meets all of your criteria.

Yes, they are expensive. But sometimes you can find some really great deals. I picked a mint condition B-90 up in DC for $500 last month. It values out at around $1,600.

And I do own a Garlando, Tornado, Eurosoccer, and several Bonzini tables :D

Good luck in your search
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: snake eyes on January 06, 2011, 07:48:46 AM
Fis---Get on that Blonde Coin-Op!!!!! $150.00 is a steal!! This one looks to be in even better shape than the other one.. Hell the rods and the men are worth that! Just an F/Y/I  you can take the top off of it to transport, open the table up and slide it off the hinges and if you have to unbolt the legs to make it more compact. GREAT DEAL. Let us know when you get it set in your place and we will give you some pointers on tuning it.


Snake
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 06, 2011, 09:21:49 AM
Fis---Get on that Blonde Coin-Op!!!!! $150.00 is a steal!! This one looks to be in even better shape than the other one.. Hell the rods and the men are worth that! Just an F/Y/I  you can take the top off of it to transport, open the table up and slide it off the hinges and if you have to unbolt the legs to make it more compact. GREAT DEAL. Let us know when you get it set in your place and we will give you some pointers on tuning it.
Snake, thanks so much.  This is EXACTLY the next question I had -- i.e., how to transport it.  I'm feeling pretty lucky right now.  I just paid for this table.  Aside from a big chip in one exterior corner, it appears to be in great condition.  It was in an apartment building game room and the counter reads just 206 !  Apparently kids liked to put billiard balls down the goals, and you can see the minor dings from that inside, but I'm not complaining.  Heck, there are probably $50 worth of quarters inside and I get those too.

My question: How to move it.  I have to get it up a flight of stairs and through a normal-sized door to get it out of there, then I'm going to be transporting it in a minivan.  I was thinking I had to remove the legs.  Removing the hinges looked quite precarious, and removing the rods and men looked like a lot of work.  You're saying it can just slide off the hinges without removing them?  That would be beyond wonderful. 
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: Chase Pennell on January 06, 2011, 09:47:15 AM
Buy that table for $150 and RUN out the door. You will not just be getting a steal. But if you ever need to you can sell it and make money! Worry about the trasport later! LOL!

The table comes apart pretty easy. The legs come off, and the top splits in half. I could not find a video of it online. But it should not be hard for you!
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: xiek376 on January 06, 2011, 09:53:13 AM
I just bought a grey marble coin op, and yes you can just slide the top of the hinges.  No tools necessary, just open it up and slide it off. 
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: papafoos on January 06, 2011, 09:58:55 AM
Basically, it breaks down in thirds.  The top, the base, and the legs(counting the 4 of them as one unit)  You should have a helper available.

Tilt the playfield at a 90 degree angle to the base.  Get one person on each end and it will slide right off the hinges.  You'll see how the pins on half the hinge fit into the other half.  Take a socket wrench (7/16 I think) and remove the legs.  Just remember to not overtighten when you reinstall the legs.

And a $50 rebate to boot?  Good grief, what a deal!
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: alaskan thunder on January 06, 2011, 11:17:35 AM
Wow $150 thats a freakin steal. Buy Buy Buy ASAP
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: John M on January 06, 2011, 04:35:58 PM

I am freaking out for you...you were in the perfect place at the perfect time!!!

The hinge itself does not come off...you need to take the capnut off and open the top and slide it out...you will need two strong people on this one.

The legs are real easy.

I must have missed seeing the foos table cause that link is only to a poker table which is also a pretty good freakin deal!
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 06, 2011, 04:55:52 PM
 

I am freaking out for you...you were in the perfect place at the perfect time!!!

The hinge itself does not come off...you need to take the capnut off and open the top and slide it out...you will need two strong people on this one.

The legs are real easy.

I must have missed seeing the foos table cause that link is only to a poker table which is also a pretty good freakin deal!
LOL yes.  I am honestly relieved to see that they removed the foosball table from the listing because even though I paid for it already I don't pick it up until tomorrow morning and, well, I don't want them to change their mind!  Yes right place right time.  I barely know what I'm doing but have learned enough to recognize from the photo that it was a Tornado Coin Op -- and blond wood is what I really wanted!  It's in an apartment complex game room -- they are preparing to remodel and the owner told the leasing manager to just clear out everything.  The leasing manager has no idea what it's worth and doesn't really seem to care.  There's also a beat up pool table, and that poker table was in horrible shape, but the Tornado (and a huge shuffleboard table I wish I had room for) are pretty pristine.  Only 206 plays!  Manual and spare man were inside, as were a whole bunch of balls, and even a coin box still full of quarters. 

I borrowed a long socket set because it appears I'll need that to remove the legs (the bolts are a deep reach).  Will have it home tomorrow, then somebody can tell me how to set it to free play.  Woot!
Title: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
Post by: fis on January 07, 2011, 12:25:28 PM
Mission accomplished! 
Thanks for everybody's advice.

Here it is.  Cleaned the interior and reassembled -- now onto the exterior. Needs a serious scrubbing.

2 questions:
1) I need to put something under the legs to protect hardwood floors.  Any specific advice other than felt pads?  Legs are so big I'll probably have to cut some custom pads.
2) How do you set it on free play?

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5083/5333629842_896674eb27_z.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5333014857_0bc4ddd778_z.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5333015215_7ac4ebd4ac_z.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5333014231_d820fbd8c3_z.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5333013921_b490335b7f_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: jinhopark on January 07, 2011, 12:58:49 PM
Wow that table looks great...good job.

I would use simple Green to clean everything up, I can't stand the smell though BLAHHH!!!

Just buy these round footpads and you should be all set:

http://foosdirect-store.stores.yahoo.net/tablefootpads.html

There are a few ways to set the table on free play...I like the more expensive option of filling up the ESD coin mech with the black plastic blanks...this allows you to push in the coin-mech and hear the balls drop, just like in the arcades.  There maybe some blanks in your ESD, depending on which ESD model you have.  Basically there is an ESD-4, ESD-5, ESD-6 and so on...the number reflects the total number of slots you have.  Tornado's usually have an ESD-5, which allows 5 quarter slots...and you can even have dollar coin slots.  The blank slots are like $1 a piece, and you can get them on this foosball site or through here:

http://tornadofoosb.powweb.com/store/page16.html

You may even have some blanks in your ESD-5 coin mech and not know it.  There are some screws holding it in place, take those out and then take out the coin mechanism.  Once you have it out you will see in the back that there is like a spare parts bank in there...actually rather than explain it, just take a look at this tutorial:

http://www.tornadofoosball.com/ESDChuteHowto.pdf

Other than those who got a free table from family members, or winning them at tourney's...I have to say yours is probably the best deal I have ever heard of.

You've got to let us know how much money was in the coin bank...LOL!
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: snake eyes on January 07, 2011, 01:14:25 PM
Fis-->>>SNAP<< I think your scored the best deal of the year here!! (206) on the counter???? Inside looks to be in GREAT condition and so does the Inside. Ok so here goes with the free play setting,,,you can buy slugs from a vendor or maybe even here on foosball.com. all they do is sit in the coin slot where the quarters go. You do have to open the table up to disingage the top slide to get these in but you will figure it out. Also they sell leg boots on the this site or you can make your own pads, I made mine out of old bar mats cut down to size. DO NOT use felt or every time you launch a pull shot the table will move and it will piss you off..Congrats thats a really nice looking blonde, maybe the best shape one I have seen. Be prepared for life long addiction, the better you get the more you need to get a fix to play..


Snake
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: Chase Pennell on January 07, 2011, 01:51:53 PM
Killer! Well done! Talk about a steal! Not going to lie, people on this forum are jealous! There are a ton of people that would kick a puppy for that deal!
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: Will17 on January 07, 2011, 05:36:11 PM
Awesome deal. I'm a vendor that owns 8 tables on location, and I would have bought that in a heartbeat. A lot of people are jealous. Don't use any sort of solution on the surface. The playing surface is best cleaned with only water, and dry it off quickly after.

Buy some rod lube, some brand new fuzzy balls, and some handle wraps - those things will all go a long way towards making the table better. Also you probably already know this but make sure you level the table, using the spinning feet on the bottom.

To set to free play two options exist:
Easy: open the table up, remove the "ready ramp" that catches the balls after you put a coin through. Stuff a napkin or golf ball or something blocking the track so that the balls don't fill up the spinning metal tray. Close the table and after you score the ball will run down the track but stop before entering, you can just grab it from there and play.

Hard: Take the coin mech apart, take the silver shims out and use black shims in each spot. Your coin mech on the inside has extra shims. It takes a long time to explain how to take a coin mech apart but if you have small screwdrivers you can figure it out on your own. It is hard to do though without someone that knows what they are doing on hand to help out.
Title: Epilogue (and how to replace a man)
Post by: fis on January 07, 2011, 11:23:07 PM
Epilogue:  The "steal of the century" did, in fact, have some problems that I am working on fixing now:

One of the 3-man rods is bent.  It wasn't so apparent to this novice until I lubricated them.  I'm going to order a replacement for the rod.

One of the men was loose as well, which wasn't apparent until I tried hitting a ball with him and he practically spun around the rod.  I am looking for a tutorial on how to replace a man, but it's a little confusing because honestly I'm not sure how these things are put together and what's holding the man to the rod, or what exactly is broken because the man appears to be perfectly intact.  The instructions at http://www.foosball.com/content.php?page=84#replace_man (http://www.foosball.com/content.php?page=84#replace_man) are frankly confusing because I don't know the vocabulary.  I do have a punch that was in the cabinet but I hesitate to take a hammer to my new equipment when I'm not sure what I'm doing.  Are there any videos showing how to replace a foos man?

The counter was, after all, stuck at 206, so that was just wishful thinking.  I got it working again.  As papafoos just posted in another thread (probably inspired by me), the counter should not be taken at face value.

I did get up the nerve to take apart the coin box, where I found a spare slug and successfully installed it  :D  I need to order another one of those to make it play free.
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: bbtuna on January 09, 2011, 04:05:37 AM
sorry i missed this entire thread but even if you have to change 2 or 3 rods and some men, its the best table deal I have ever seen and I have tracked them and helped people buy tables for about 5 years now and this is easy the best deal I have ever heard about...its nearly free, that is the only way it could be a better deal

by the way, going back for a minute before moving back to the table...your son said he didn't want 3 man goalie because it made defense too easy and this isn't true...the outside men don't move far enough to get in front of the goal, so in defending shots, they never come into play...they are useful for setting up shots, traping lose balls in the goal area, passing, and even some shooting if you are creative enough

back to the table...changing a man is easy, with a little thought, you can figure it out on your own I am certain...depending on which man it is, it will tell you how many men you have to remove...its most tricky on the 5 bar - which man needs to be changed...as you face the table, you can refer to the men like this...on the 2 bar, the man closest to you is the 21 and the one further out is the 22...5 bar closest man is 51, next is 52, etc...3 man closest is 31, middle man is 32, furthest out is 33...you get the idea

Congratulations and enjoy the table
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: PatRyan on January 11, 2011, 01:58:37 PM
Jumping in late in the conversation here, just got back in town.  That table was 10 minutes from your house?  Sweet!!  So you are in the DC area!  If you are interested in the local foosball scene (MD/NoVA), let me know. 

PR
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: jinhopark on January 11, 2011, 06:32:56 PM
...your son said he didn't want 3 man goalie because it made defense too easy and this isn't true...the outside men don't move far enough to get in front of the goal, so in defending shots, they never come into play...they are useful for setting up shots, traping lose balls in the goal area, passing, and even some shooting if you are creative enough

I totally agree with Tuna, there is no way that by having a 3 man goalie makes the defensive job easier.  Actually, you could even make the argument that it makes it slightly harder...I've seen slop balls take weird bounces off the 2 outside goalie guys and somehow spin off weird angles and make its way into the goal somehow.  The fact that both sides have the 3 man goalies negates any advantage that one side has over the other, so in all practicality it really doesn't make the job harder...to me having the 3 men back there just makes the game go faster by being able to manipulate the ball in nearly all the areas of the table Vs. waiting for the ball to roll down the ramp.  Of course this is coming from a hack player like myself, where I am on the receiving end of a lot more slop balls going into my goal...
Title: Re: Newbie question: 1 Goalie vs. 3
Post by: fis on January 12, 2011, 03:55:56 PM
Jumping in late in the conversation here, just got back in town.  That table was 10 minutes from your house?  Sweet!!  So you are in the DC area!  If you are interested in the local foosball scene (MD/NoVA), let me know. 

PR
Thanks.  My son might be.  At least, he'd be interested in checking out some serious play.

P.S. Loving this table!