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Chat Area => General Chat => Topic started by: garabdorje on September 07, 2011, 01:58:19 PM

Title: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: garabdorje on September 07, 2011, 01:58:19 PM
What ever happend to Warrior tables?


Searching around for foosball tables on the internet I found good reviews and opinions about Warrior tables, I got very interested and for that price I tought it was a good option. Then I notice the webpage was not updated, the last event posted dates from 2004 and the official forum is full of spam. I wrote an  email asking about the table and the webpage two weeks ago, I havent received an answer.


Strangely they have 2011 copyrights, I wonder if they no longer care about selling tables. I also read they are no longer the IFP official table.


Well to sum I felt I could not trust a company like that so I kept looking for more tables.   


I just wanted to share my experience, I just felt disapointed.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: Nosorog on September 07, 2011, 03:15:55 PM
I've never played on one but know that some people like them.  They just didn't have the quality of Tornado so the tour went back to Tornado.  Maybe they will try to improve them.  I'd pick one up for cheap.  There's also the new Fireball tables that look fun.  Here's a good article about tables:

http://www.foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=2704.0
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 07, 2011, 10:18:08 PM
i own 2 warrior tables and cant say enough...they're strong and you can pound them as hard as you want...i played on tornado and looks like they match up pretty close. i know everyone has there own opinion but i cant complain..my buddy plays pros and when he comes over the table takes a licking and keeps on ticking..lol!...from what i heard i think they're working on upgrading the table..but who knows....but  i stand behind them 100%..for the price you cant go wrong...plus its easy to get parts...happy foozing!!
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: garabdorje on September 08, 2011, 02:05:04 AM
When did you buy your table? What I liked about Warrior Tables was the 1 goalie configuration and the price. Then I  found Fireball tables, I didn't like the blue field but then after reading several posts and the review on this forum I think that Fireball will be my next table :)

Also Brad Laurine is a great guy, I wrote an email regarding the difference between the Sport table and the Tour table, we was very helpful. I ended up calling him and we had a great chat. He gave me some tips on how to improve my Shelti's Rock-It table wile I save for a Fireball Tour table. I feel I can trust the fireball team.  They also have an ITSF table, that's trustworthy :)
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 08, 2011, 06:09:59 PM
if you were asking me...i bought them last year in july and the other a little later..i got the red and yellow men and the other table has the blue and red which i prefer..where i live i cant be to picky about the the table i like,being that i live out in the pacific ocean...no dought Brad sound like a up and up guy from all the post ive read..and it sounds like the fireball might be the table for the tour for a long time..thats great. im hoping Brad and his gang will hold a tournament here in the islands soon so i can get a piece of that table..but until then Warrior is the table i play and probably will for a long time..the only problem i have with the Warrior is that the ball just cant seem to stay put in the goal..lol!...hope you find that right table...BIG AL!
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on September 09, 2011, 09:27:47 PM
there is no comparing these tables, Tornado has been making the premire table and only Tournament table for nearly 40 years, Warrior played great but couldn't hold up to the rigors of tournament play and the heavy solid rods took a tool on some arms and I think if it was out an extended period of time, these heavy rods would damage people

the enters Fireball...i now have over 40 hours on the table and I can tell you without a doubt its the best table ever made...I think the fit and finish is better than Tornado and Warrior isn't even in the discussion but even my first generation home model is argueably better than Tornado's coin op T3000...some will argue but let me tell you what you can not argue because it just facts...these things on the Fireball home model and therefore on their coin op too:
* BEARINGS...better made and bigger so it lets the rod through if you want to remove it
* LEGS...substantially better - metal and weight probably 4 times what a Tornado leg weighs and are hollow so they can be filled with sand or lead shot
* FEET...way better than Tornado's comparitively cheap plastic feet...these are metal, very sturdy, and have a rubber bottom with ribbed to set sturdy on any surface
* PLAYERS FOOT...Warrior is at least in the discussion and Tornado made improvements when they redesigned their foot (but didn't go the entire way) but Fireball worked out all the kinks and you get a man that can tic tac as well or better than any table made, it will handle front toes as well or better than any foot on any table, it allows for crisp exact angles every time like the old TS did which means kick shooter and banks are back in the game, it can shoot a straight set shot as good or better than any table, no sacrifice on brush passing, better in my mind than Tornado which was the best, AND last, THE BEST DESIGN FOR A BACKPIN EVER!  Warrior was good, much better than Tornado and I liked Tornado, but it is out of this world on Fireball
* RODS, RODS, RODS...i have saved this for last because it is SOOOO much better...War is a universe apart with heavy solid rods and Tornado, well they are the same right? they are both hollow and both heat treated...NO! not in the same arena...if they were baseball, Fireball rods would be Major League and Tornado would be Little League...no, just kidding, they are more like single A Minor League

when i first opened it up, i had heard so much about the rods my expectations were high and at first they didn't seem special at all, they actually felt stiff at first but that improved with cleaning and silicone.  I thought seems smoother a little but I don't see the big difference but i stuck with and week after week went by and i logged longer hours. 

Things changed as I understood how not to use so much muscle and let the rod do the work.  Every shot of mine is better and not by a small margin.  Now, when I go back to my Tornado, I feel like I am pulling lead through molten rock.  Two nights ago i had company and they wanted to see my foosball room and I stepped up to my Tornado like I have done a thousand times before with company...I stepped up and tried to whack a few real hard to wow them and I actually began to injure myself because the rods were so sluggish.

I literally couldn't wait to get back and sling some stuff around on my Fireball...it actually felt better to let my now injured wrist ride along with the Fireball rods.  You can't get the benifit with one or two sessions or a weekend.  You may see that they are faster in that time but you just can't appreciate how much difference it makes...I can shoot endless pulls and never get tired.  Everythings is smoother, less effort, shots are longer and cleaner.

I could go on and on and I still would not be exagarrating...it sounds like hyperbly but its not...there are other features and parts to Fireball that make it at least as good and in most cases better than the best table EVER made but with these rods, the center of all play on a foosball table, Fireball is for sure the best table out of these 3 tables which makes it better than Tornado, which makes it better than the best made table in the world...I will go further and say, Fireball is not only the best table made in the world it is the best foosball table EVER made

oh, you may have grown up on this or that and you have your emotional favorite but putting emotions aside, there is no table that brings this kind of balance in speed, control, and precision.

Buy Fireball, you will never regret it...
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: garabdorje on September 10, 2011, 01:08:13 AM
bbtuna,

Amazing feedback!!

I was very interested in Fireball tables, now I am really excited!

I'll keep putting money in my piggy bank too buy one by Christmas.

Thanks!

P.D.: By any chance have you played on a Garlando table? I like the euro shot or pin shot style of shooting. I wonder if I could learn to do the Garlando tricks on the Fireball table.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: Anderson on September 10, 2011, 04:15:33 AM
Okay everybody, I just have to chime in here.

First, I own a Fireball table and I LOVE IT for many reasons.

HOWEVER...

If they had made their ball stickier, I would agree that it's great for front toe shots. It is good, but not the best. If you enjoy euro pin style shots, you need to investigate Bonzini. If money is an issue, well find one used or find an old Rene Pierre for sale. But if you want to experiment with different styles, get a Fireball. I have already played with a Garlando rod on this table. You have options if you are willing to experiment. NO OTHER TABLE gives you those options. You can tinker with the three piece bearing and give yourself a whole lot of possibilities. I'm currently working on installing a 14mm Rene Pierre rod with older Bonzini men that were made shorter. I found 23mm OD 14mm ID nylon oil gaskets that after scraping on sand paper to get to 22mm OD, they fit perfectly inside the three piece bearing in a notch that seems almost perfectly made for it. This has given me the perfect near side bearing. Some think this is impracticable. Why change a perfectly good table? Because I CAN, with EASE. The three piece bearing makes it easy, effortless. It takes seconds. Get a Fireball.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on September 10, 2011, 02:03:33 PM
well, when i was talking about front pin i was comparing it to Tor and War...there are a bunch of Euro tables that have a lot more ball control...much "stickier" if you will...on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being stickiest the scale would look something like this

10 Bonzini/lehmacher
9 Garlando
7 Warrior (with warrior ball)
6 Fireball
4-5 Tornado

but stickier isn't better, its just stickier...all the euro tables are stickier than the american tables but they are all also terrible with inline shots, they are hard to set up and if you get them set up they are terrible hard to shoot....the ball, the playfield, the large ramps on the side or rear corners all limit how and what you can do

its just an opinion but i think a table is BETTER that allows you to do more things...there is some trade off some place, a table can not both be the stickiest and best in line...super stickie not only make inline shots (pulls, pushes, push/pull kicks) hard but they make shooting a backpin a near impossible task...there is also the issue that most of these talbes don't have counter balanced men which means playing singles is a different animal trying to manage the men falling down

then there are the funky little handles and the telescoping rods which may be safe but they do not preform like you imagine that tables would after 50-60 years of table evolution.  here we are in 2011 and most of the tables in europe either are not level, or they can't make a ball that rolls true round and stays true round or the playfield has funky ramps on the sides or in back that don't allow you to use the entire field

and there is build quality...meaning, a table that can stand up to the serious abuse of unsupervised bar life for years and years....men that can be changed (unlike at least one table I know) but men that don't need to be changed and yet have the design and precision of years of experience and engineering not a table that stays mired in the past without concer for improving play, design, etc.

as i started to say, you can't have everything but IMO its about balancing all these things...a table with precision, a flat playfield, ability to shoot every shot ever designed, a ball that starts and stays round, men designed to last for ever and execute with finesse and power...

yea, you can find tables that allow you more control for a front toe but at what cost...i dont think the trade off is worth the benefit unless of course you want to play 80%-90% with the ball pinned and don't care about how the ball rolls on the table and don't want to shoot inline shots and you like men falling down every time you play singles and you love having to change out an entire rod if a man goes bad and love to pay twice as much for all this then you should for sure buy Bonzini
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: garabdorje on September 10, 2011, 03:40:53 PM
bbtuna,

Interesting... It seems there's only one option here, Fireball.

From what I have read Fireball has the versatility to let you play any style of Foosball, gives you the best quality, durability, performance and for a very good price. That's why I want one, I was just wondering if I was going to be able to make the pin shot and its variations since that's the shoot I feel more comfortable with.

Also Bonzini is way to expensive to be an option and where I live there's no way of getting one used since all of them are on the East Coast and for local pickup only.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 10, 2011, 06:59:14 PM
WOW! WOW! WOW!....i tell you anderson you got me sold!...after hearing all this out of this world feed back on how great the FIREBALL tables are...i tell you i cant wait to get my hands on one...but for me to get one out here in the Paific would cost me an arm and a LEG!..LOL!...thats why i hope Mr. Brad and company hold one of his tours here at Waikaloa or even in Oahu...i know..i know.. wishful thinking....it seems everyone whos played on Fireball all have great reviews...thats great to hear for the sport...keep up on the great promoting on this great table......but until the WARRIOR is the table ill play and practice on...no regrets!!...keep on foozing!!
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: Anderson on September 10, 2011, 09:52:04 PM
BB, I agree with you about inline shots, but it is possible to master inline shots on Bonzini and grippy tables in general. I've been shooting a backpin more and more on Bonzini, and the stickiness has added options to my game. One simply needs to emphasize the forward motion of the ball, be much more deliberate with pulling it forward before following through. It allows extreme walking and stomp fakes and reverses, so I love it. But I do love my Fireball as well. If I want to practice extreme grippy shots, euro pins, etc, I simply throw in a super dirty gummed up ITSF b-ball, and there it is. It would be cool if they designed simple roll-on mats so that I could practice on a linoleum surface like Bonzini. That would allow the grippiest play. Again, all of my points are for playing these styles on my Fireball for practice. I bought a camera today and a tripod so that I can start video taping all of this on my Fireball and I'll have to post some video soon.

To the original poster, I think it is clear that Fireball is your best option. There are a lot of great tables out there, and don't let anyone tell you that one table is better than another. You simply have to play a table before you can take any of that to the bank. BB's explanation about table quality doesn't do enough. One hears complaints about Bonzini, or other French tables, because they are hard to level, or the ball wears and no longer rolls true. Well get a new ball and try to level the table, or get a new surface because it's easy to install, but probably expensive. The style of play can't be substituted for, and if you enjoy that style, Tornado and Fireball simply won't do. Garlando and other tables are ACQUIRED tastes, and they all have their die hard fans. I love the style of play on Bonzini. I learned on hard ball tables first and loved that style until I was exposed to the French tables and that style of play. I've been playing more Tornado lately, and there are things I enjoy doing on that table to. I like Fireball best because I have found that I can mold it to my needs and practice Tornado, Fireball, Garlando, and now Bonzini, maybe not to exact replication, but to the general idea. I was just practicing on my table and I found it so convenient to remove the opposing 5-bar for my 3-man practice. The fact that it costs me little to no time to remove or replace a bar, or to insert things into the bearing to play a different rod, 30 seconds(a few minutes for Bonzini because I have to change the two piece bearing), is why even though I love Bonzini and that style of play far beyond what I will ever have for Fireball, I got the biggest bang for my buck. I can play nearly any style that I want.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: tagger on September 11, 2011, 12:49:48 AM
I am relatively new to the forum so not an expert on much of anything. I have been searching for a table and came across the Fireball products. I ended up speaking with Brad Laurine who represents Fireball Table soccer. His approach to customers, the time he took to educate a novice such as myself and the passion he has for his product is a major reinforcement to buying Fireball tables. Certainly all the specifications are in favor of Fireball, the few that have experience with Fireball all state that is is probably the best all round table so Tornado watch out, Competition is always healthy.

I will probably end up buying the Fireball just because I feel the customer support that Brad Laurine will provide is amazing and rare to find with any product out there today!
Sorry this is a shameless plug for Brad Laurine but i feel he deserves it!

Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: Anderson on September 11, 2011, 02:50:31 AM
I will probably end up buying the Fireball just because I feel the customer support that Brad Laurine will provide is amazing and rare to find with any product out there today!
Sorry this is a shameless plug for Brad Laurine but i feel he deserves it!

He does! :D
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on September 11, 2011, 04:45:41 AM
tagger, I agree 100%, Brad is a great person and is totally committed to customers but it isn't a corporate value, its just a natural personal value but because he runs the company, it turns into a corporate value

Anderson,
there is a lot of emotion involved with tables...you are a smaller % of players most people have bias toward a table (which means toward the style that table produces) based on what they "grow up on"...once you get used to a certain way, a certain style, making the transition to other tables that play differently

but if a person can take a step back and remove themselves from the emotion and their personal bias's and think about the game and table design holistically and not based on what a person can do now or what they like to do then you can see difference in tables that can be called good and bad

even so, there is nothing good or bad about having preferences to a specific style of play, its like enjoying one kind of music over another and if a person like the limited playing options and obvious strengths of say Bonzini, then more power to them but if a new player is looking to get involved and is asking advice on what table they should buy and they live in the US or UK and not in the rest of Europe then i could never recommend Bonzini

oh, by the way, I have seen Billy P shoot a pull on Bonzini and with a slow careful patient approach Billy could get it set up more or less in the right place and rip a pull that looked like the table was going to break with each shot but it was painful to watch and I think his feelings about it were not positive...it took all of his considerable amazing skill just to pull it off ... that doesn't mean a person should claim that Bonzini does inline shots any more than saying Tornado is good for the Euro piin becasue Fred can shoot it...and its way way easier to do a euro pin on Tor than a pull on Bonzini

i love what you are doing with your Fireball...I have used the Warrior ball on it and it takes control to another level and I am goint to get Bonzini cork and ITSF ball and see how that does..tomorrow (or later today really) I am going to break out some vintage NOS TS balls I have and see what that does...I have done it on Tornado and its a hoot because the ball is so stickie and so dang light

okay, i am headed to bed... more later ...Fireball is the future of foosball and Tornado needs to consider what is coming and if Warrior pulls off what they are planning, there will be a whole new world of foos in the US...3 great tables and a vintage Euro on the side for those who love the french  :P
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 11, 2011, 01:58:19 PM
well said!...if you play it dont matter what table you play on....but some people are just looking for that PERFECT table...maybe to make they're game easier..i dont know........hey bbtuna if your ever in HAWAII, look me up and we'll get some doubles going...only problem it will be on a WARRIOR..LOL!...
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on September 11, 2011, 03:44:20 PM
if i ever get to HI i will for sure look you up...don't get me wrong, i really liked the way Warrior played and like i said, if a casual player could pick one up for $200 they would have a GREAT table for the money and if Brendan can get his quality issues worked out and put out a consistent high quality table, I would be very supportive and would recommend it to players...I think very highly of the Warrior ball, still think its the best ball I have ever played with...lots of control, keeps its shape and roughed up surface for a long time, easy to clean and bring back fresh just a great design....nothing like snagging those lose balls...i would love it if Tornado would use it full time but we know that aint ever gonna happen
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: FOOZUL on September 11, 2011, 03:55:45 PM
I agree with BBTUNA, Warrior Ball is still the best, and visually it really works better on a Fireball table also. I also want to give props to Mark for making the best out of his Fireball table.

I would really like to see what would Warrior do to top Fireball or Tornado. As far as solid, easy to setup, power, speed, and ball control, no brand tops Fireball.

 

Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: garabdorje on September 12, 2011, 02:08:31 PM
Anderson,
To the original poster, I think it is clear that Fireball is your best option.

I think you are totally right about Fireball, and when I have enough money to justify buying a Bonzini I will, I don't want anyone telling me about how it feels to play on a French table I want to own that experience my self.

Tagger,
I will probably end up buying the Fireball just because I feel the customer support that Brad Laurine will provide is amazing and rare to find with any product out there today!
Sorry this is a shameless plug for Brad Laurine but i feel he deserves it!

I am with you a 100% Brad is just that kind of guy who gets you fired up about not just Fireball tables but foosball in general, it is good to have someone that loves the sport as much as Brad does because it is essential to the development and spread of it.

I just cant wait to get my hands on a Fireball table, I'll accept any donations towards me getting one ASAP ;)
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: garabdorje on September 12, 2011, 02:28:40 PM
Also
I would really like to see what would Warrior do to top Fireball or Tornado. As far as solid, easy to setup, power, speed, and ball control, no brand tops Fireball.

I agree, it is always good to have competition, that will press them to improve their quality, and to innovate their designs, I think there's always room for improvement.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: come back trail on September 14, 2011, 11:07:50 AM
So here is the dilemma I am facing. Long time Tornado player that rarely plays in tournaments anymore. I try to make the occasional dyp and our yearly LA state (which I will be missing this year by the way). Anyway, I sold my gray marble a few months back to take care of an immediate financial need. I will be in the market for a new table in the coming months. After reading all of the reviews of the Fireball, and seeing the tables playability on live streams I am really interested in this table. However, should someone who really only exposes his game to the Tornado tournaments purchase a non-tornado table? I usually have pretty good results even though I don't play competitively too often. I would think going from Fireball to Tornado would affect my game on Tornado. I know this will be a personal decision but thought I would throw it out there.

thanks
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 14, 2011, 01:21:06 PM
after hearing all this talk and great reviews on fireball even im considering hooking up with one myself!......but wouldnt pay $1000.00 plus just to get one to my front door...im trying to see how much it would cost to ship one out to Hawaii...probably would be the only one to ever own one out here!..LOL!...the reviews are unbeleivable and the the table itself looks solid and i could get used to the men...hey Mr. Brad Laurine do i have any chance of getting one out here?....i love my Warrior but if i had to upgrade most defenitly it would be a fireball....but i probably would just wait to see what happens in the fooz world before i make any kind of decision...
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on September 14, 2011, 09:39:16 PM
Fireball just took Tornado's place as one of the 5 official ITSF tables, if you are interested in their tournament future, I don't think you have to work on it besides, how often are you in HI getting out to tournamtents...you are playing War now, what is there to wait for

about going from FB to Tor, there is a transition and you will feel like Tor is slow and the rods are stuck in half set cement but it doesn't take long to adjust, I have been doing it once a week as I go out and play on Fri nights...it is especially nothing to concern yourself over since you are not going to Tor tournaments very often...I mean, think about how much time you spend on your own table, don't you want 95% of the time you spend on a table to be as much fun as possible?  Get the FB, who knows, you may be taking that once a year or so tournament trip to a FB tourny in the not to distant future...I am not saying, I amjust saying

 8)
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: BradLaurine on September 15, 2011, 02:37:19 AM
Big Al,
$500 to $600 depending on several factors.

It would ship out of Seattle.

Your mail box is full.
In fact, everyone's mail box is full if you even have one PM.

Brad at fireballtablesocer dot com to get in touch with me.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 15, 2011, 06:48:54 PM
mr Brad Laurine,   could you give me a price,shipping and for a homemodel table..a ball park at to what im looking at to ship one to Hawaii. im pretty much interested on your tables...or could i call you??....thank Brad!..
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 15, 2011, 06:50:20 PM
i meant thank you mr. Brad Laurine...bad type error..
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: BradLaurine on September 15, 2011, 07:10:46 PM
Big Al,

Take a look at the different home models on
www.fireballtablesoccer.com
The pricing is on each of the home models.

Shipping will be $500 to 600. according to the last quote I have 2 months ago to the big island.

Go to the site and grab my email and phone number. Give me a call or write directly. The Private Message service (PM) is full.

Thank you and looking forward to the conversation.

Brad Laurine,
PS to Jim and the webmaster; he asked me for the information and I can not PM him. I would like to see the private message service pumped up to more messages before hitting overload. just a thought.

Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: jagiar on September 29, 2011, 08:29:25 AM
Anderson said:

"There are a lot of great tables out there, and don't let anyone tell you that one table is better than another. "

I think this is ABSOLUTELY TRUE and possibly the wisest response so far to the original post.  I am a Garlando player out of Europe.  I remember when I was originally interested in picking up a Tornado table.  I searched this and many other US based foosball sites to research the table.  I remember all the rave reviews of the 'grey marble' and 'brown marble' tables being the absolute "best tables ever made".  Based on this research, I picked up a grey marble.  I must say, and I don't wish to stir up a bee's hive with this, but, I don't think my Tornado is ALL that much better than my Garlando.  In fact, a Tornado bearing chipped after a few weeks of play, whereas my Garlando has withstood years of hard poundings by my club with absolute no damage.  I also think that the tornado field/pitch has more chance of eventual warping than my Garalndo table as I can already wintess slight variations in flatness in certain areas of the Tornado field.  I'm not saying Garlando is better than Tornado but I think we need to be careful in making absolute claims like 'Table A is the absolute best'. 

Now I've never owned a fireball and from the reviews I'm seeing here, they look interesting.  But once bitten, I'm reluctant to invest in another table simply from reviews of players who MAY not have had extensive years of play on other tables available.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: SilentSam on September 29, 2011, 10:25:06 AM
Going back to the OP:

I own a Warrior, and can tell you its pitfalls.
- The cabinet is poorly designed, I have split the MDF along the sidewalls (the full length of the table)
- The bolts should really reinforce the cabinet better
- The chrome on the rods tends to flake off. I have replaced 4 rods and still they tend to flake
- The playfield warps over extended use
- They're lighter than Tornado, so they move around more
- The adjustable feet are cheap plastic, and break pretty easily
- The moulds of the figures are inconsistent, some sit loose on the rods, and some are very tight
- The ball flies out of the ball return very often

On the plus side, I'm sure you can find a Warrior very cheap. All this being said, playing on a new Warrior is really great, one of my favourite tables to play on. I shoot a europin, and do a brush/stick series on the five.

I'll be upgrading to a Fireball soon though, do to the degradation of my Warrior, as well as the lack of tour on it.

BTW, someone said Fireball isn't good for a europin, I disagree, I found it fantastic for my pin series (speed, control, cut options). I do shoot this series very well on Tornado though, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Edit: Typos
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 29, 2011, 01:44:16 PM
hey SilentSam.....now when you were talking about all the downfalls on the Warrior table, was that on the old tables?...because alot of the problems that you said i havent experienced yet..and hopefully not..LOL!...would like to hear from you..thx!
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: SilentSam on September 29, 2011, 02:40:18 PM
It was the model most used in the IFP tour, solid rods, yellow and red men, white side strips. I know that the men eventually changed design a little and became red and blue, and that the side strips changed to dark green, but I believe that the cabinet and rods never changed, so these issues will most likely arise after more play.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 29, 2011, 03:52:09 PM
why did your table warp, where do you keep it?..what part of the table split..you mean on its own from hard play??...you mentioned the new Warrior, what is the difference compared to the old...do you know what year you got your table....new or used...i know i know whats up with all the questions....hey if i cant afford to get a fireball yet, i need to make sure i avoid all these problems...thx!
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: Buckshot on September 29, 2011, 04:58:10 PM
I never played on Warrior and I had the same problem garabdorje commented on above, which is they never update their webpage so I gave up trying to talk to them and maybe buy a table. However, what I really want to comment on is what bbtuna said about Fireball, that it is without a doubt the BEST table ever for a backpin.  Bless you young man, whoever you are. I've never played a Fireball table, but that comment has me fired up to get one someday. My game had it's flaws, mainly my passing which sucked, but I can say with all humility that I had one of the best backpin shots I've ever seen, and I've been around. I burned out on foos in 1992 after being obsessed with the game for 20 years(anyone reading this post knows what that's like!) and walked away. On they rare occasions I actually run into a table it is invariably a Tornado, which is unbackpinnable. Sorry people, I know some of you really like that brand, but honestly you couldn't give me a Tornado table. Now that I know there is a REAL backpin table out there I'm remembering how much I loved to drive people nuts with my deadman on both sides and a split that was downright scary. All I have to do now is actually find one. Here in Oklahoma foosball is apparently dead. I've lived here about a year and a half and I haven't seen a single table. I read online that there are a couple tables in Tulsa, but it's not worth driving 100 miles to play on a table I don't like. Anyway, thanks to garabdorje for getting me all excited about my old passion.   
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: SilentSam on September 29, 2011, 05:11:16 PM
I'll link some youtube videos to show you the generations.

Newest gen Warrior: http://www.youtube.com/user/roger649?blend=3&ob=5#p/u/0/AmyMWDM4vdQ (http://www.youtube.com/user/roger649?blend=3&ob=5#p/u/0/AmyMWDM4vdQ)
Most common Warrior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGahf6H3GJs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGahf6H3GJs) - This is also the model I own, circa 2008 I think
Earliest Warrior: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTyuujs8Eyk&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLFB9543CDBC03D482 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTyuujs8Eyk&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLFB9543CDBC03D482) - This one had the most issues, completely unlike the other models. I've never played on this one though.

My table warped because of my pullshot, brush passes, pin, anything that applied downward pressure on the play surface. My pull is set back pretty far (as all good closed handed pulls are at the release point) which creates more force on the playfield, hence the warpage. Also, when I walk the ball using my pin, I'm pretty aggressive, so that added to the warpage. The area between the 2 bars and the 3 bars is especially warped, since both my long push and my long pull from the 2 tended to stub a lot at first, which was strenuous on the table, combined win the constant pinning from the 3.

There are two areas on the table that split. One was a split the full length of the sidewall (ie: if you removed the top laminate on the sidewall, you would see a crack running the length of it). The other was 2 cracks in the white laminate in the inside of the other sidewall, which warped the sidewall, and now causes funny bounces during a 5 bar series. I imagine that both of these were caused by trapping the ball against the sidewall during play, which really is a common occurrence.

My table was kept in a carpeted basement room, which had humidity regulated by a dehumidifier, so moisture should not have been the cause.

I bought my table used, but it was only used for one tournament. When I first set it up it was mint, and had no damage whatsoever. I lived with roommates, and had friends over all the time, so the table saw daily use, 50% of the time by tournament players, until April 2010.

The bottom line is if it sees consistent heavy use, it will break down. On the other hand, if the table had the same play characteristics, but was as sturdy as a Tornado Coin-op, I would pick that up in a second.

Re: Differences between a new Warrior and a Fireball
I've played on both, and like both equally, but they are definitely difference beasts. The Warrior has those solid 'roid rods, which cause you to really lace into your shots. The fireball I played on had the ultra light rods, which felt like they weren't even there (which really was a good thing). The ball we were using wasn't the one that Fireball released, but I'll describe the feel as best that I can. The ball felt heavier than a Tornado or Warrior ball, and felt more rubbery; faster than a Warrior ball but slower than a Tornado. My entire game transitioned to it after a minute of play, and I could tic tac on the 5 forever, which I could never do on Warrior, and have a hard time doing at pace on a Tornado.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: papafoos on September 29, 2011, 05:37:22 PM
Buckshot, where in Oklahoma are you?  Maybe I can help you find some people to play.  I'm closer to Dallas than Tulsa but I still keep in  touch with some of the Tulsa crowd.  Oklahoma State will be at the Hard Rock in Tulsa the last weekend of October.  It's worth it just to watch.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 29, 2011, 06:46:18 PM
SilentSam, thanks for the imput...hopefully i wont run into the same problems...thx!
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on September 30, 2011, 10:19:23 AM
jagjiar-the idea that all tables are equal, regardless of your preference is not wise, it is ignorant and uniformed but politically correct....by taking that position, you are saying the $100 table from Walmart is the same as your garlando coin op and we both know that is just silly...or the entry level Tornado is the same as their coin op or even comparing all coin ops you couldn't say that

now by that, you are saying that the 7 one time ITSF recognizied coin op/top level models are all equally built you might have more of an arguement but still, just speaking about build quality, it is possible to make objective, verifiable comparrisions

now on the style of play they produce, this is entriely a matter of opinion...there is no telling a Bonizini player that their style of play is not as good or complete as Garlando or Tornado and the same can be said of Leonhart and Roberto Sport or other "not recognized" tables like Lehmacher

the style of play a person grows up on usually determines a person's bias toward one "style" verses another and that style is almost always associated to a particular table

I recognize the unique style that Bonzini and cork balls creates and can understand why people could learn to like that and why many of those same people would feel Tornado was like playing with a hard plastic ball on ice

however there are only one or two tables ever made which were made with the knowledge of tournament foosball and what can be done on a table (Leonhart and Fireball I believe)...Garlando and Bonzini were created long before touranment foosball was discovered and their "style" reflects the random build characteristics of the original designers...so what bbt, what does that mean?  It means that these tables and many others, have never been designed with the entire game and tournament history in mind and therefore have significant deficiencies/weaknesses/limits on what can be done on the table

this part isn't opinion, setting up inline shots like a pull, is nearly impossible on a Bonzini...can it be done?  Well, can a duck run? Yes, but it isn't built to run and it doesn't run well.  But, can a duck fly?  Hell yes and it can fly seamingly effortlessly and that is a Bonzini front toe shot.  These kind of limitations are objective fact but whether you think this is good, bad, or indifferent is opinion
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on September 30, 2011, 11:02:16 AM
EVERYONE has bias', mine are not to a specific table or style but in the end, they dictate a style probably.  But, here are my bias' for Tournament Foosball

1.  I believe the playfield should be completely flat and level (not including ramps if that method of corner ball retrieval is used)
2.  I think the ball should start completely round and stay completely round throught the length of any tournament play (what you do in your private life is your own business)
3.  I think the playfield should remain flat all the way to the side wall (i.e. 90 degree angle)- only exception is that it should have a design that doesn't leave dead balls stuck flat on the wall but whatever is used to keep this from occuring, should be as near to nothing as possible
4.  I think that all shots that can be done on a foosball table, should ALL be able to be done equally well...this means, set shots, front and back toe, rollover, tic tacs, banks, and ariels.  A flat surface and round ball take care of about half of this and the foot design takes care of the rest of it
5.  It should be possible to reach a ball anywhere on the table...I would compromise with ramps in the corners (I grew up on TS meaning ramps so go easy) but I think a "player" should be able to "dig" the ball out of the corner...I am open to design options, but right now, the only one I have seen that works is a 3 man goalie...I think ramps limit the playfield, limit offensive options significantly even after taking into consideration those it adds, and ramps increase set up time slowing the game down
6.  All men should be counter-balanced
7.  No telescoping rods
8.  Changable handles
9.  Walls should be hard and flat...they should not absorb the energy nor add to it
10.  Goal mouths should NEVER chip (personal bug a boo)
11.  playing surface color limitations
12.  Rods should start and stay true (no warping) throughout tournament play

Things I think should be implemented and may be in the future but are not yet "standards" for tournament play
1.  Ball diameter and weight - no limit on materials for now
2.  Field dimensions
3.  Goal dimensions
4.  Wall height
5.  Table surface and handle height standards
5.  Player foot dimensions & player weight - no limit on materials for now
6.  Rod standards...weight, length, & diamenter min/limitations...an industry standard...no limitations (for now) on materials used
7.  Player spacing on rods and foot height off the playing surface
8.  Minimum jar standard
9.  Minimum weight standard
10.  Score/time out/game/match "score counters" standards (as much variation as possible but something that would keep someone like Tornado from the hideous design currently used)

What I don't care about
1.  ball material or color
2.  playing surface material
3.  any other materials used to build the table
4.  how fast or slow the table is
5.  bearing design
5.  the name of the table

Wish to have - remember, this is all only about Tournament Foosball - all these should be designed as aftermarket add-ons
1.  Jar sensor like those used in pin ball machines that can be set to specific standards for each tournament...this is not an expensive (relatively speaking) add on that should be available to tournament table owners
2.  Electronic eye(s) for goal scored
3.  Auto sound and electronic score keeper (includes time outs, game count, match count, winner or loser bracket option for double elimination tournies)
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on September 30, 2011, 11:25:15 AM
your experience on Tornado is an extreme very rare example....I have been around literally hundreds of them many 15-20 years old and never seen any bearings "chip" from normal bar stuff in the first 10 years or so...I have seen some old negelected and abused bar tables have bearings go bad but even in those circumstances, its rare...the design is so simple, its hard to break them and can't imagine how you managed to get one chiped

on warping...there was a run of "fridge" model Tor that a change in design created surface warping issues...outside of that, going back to literally hundreds of tables many of which were 15-25 years old, I have NEVER seen or heard of a surface warping unless someone spilled gallons of beer and let it sit without cleaning it or some other customer negelect sort of thing but if you have a relatively new table that may be starting to warp, you have a one out of a thousand table unless its one of that bad run but those started warped and didn't move slowly toward warping

Tornado was specifcally originally designed to go into a bar and hold up under the rigors of negelected bar life and with the purpose of keeping owner costs down (less replacement of men, rods, bearings, balls, handles, etc) and that is why it owns the consumer coin op market in the US

the context of my remarks are normally aimed at the US market...Garlando, Leonhart, Bonzini price themselves out of consideration even if they can even be found here.  If the person buying the table ever wants to play in one of the hundreds of weekly DYP's around the country, they probably want to buy Tor or something near its play style if they want to compete (I understand there is a Bonzini USA with a small foot print in the southeast but still the price of a new one is so expensive its not realistic - plus, if there is not already a table bias, I would not start someone off on Bonzini because of the small foot print, expensive table, extreme imbalance in style of play)

my take is and I have said this before...Tor is built as good or better than any existing table...Fireball is built better than Tor (coin op vs coin op) therefore Fireball is the best built table in the World

on playstyle...Fireball is the only table EVER built which was designed to try and accomodate ALL styles...trying to get the perfect balance between tic tacs, set up shots, banks, toes, speed and control - IT IS MY OPINION that this is the best thing for the future of tournament foosball and all tables should strive to exceed this benchmark...

go ahead and build your unique style driving table but on the side, use the decades of history at Garlando and Bonzini to design a table with all current knowledge of materials and engineering mixed with the history and future of tournament foosball, and design a table precision and balance that doesn't bias itself toward a specific style but instead bias' itself toward a table for all styles
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on September 30, 2011, 03:59:23 PM
well bbtuna, looks like you made it quite clear again.....FIREBALL might be the table of all time...but unfortunately some of us still have to stick with the same old  stuff that we have....maybe our tables dont do everything that FIREBALL can do and more ..but its still foosball.......youve really made your point loud and clear, and after seeing it on yutube and hearing all the positive feedback...i want my FIREBALL too!!..........but like i said before that shippings a killer....unless Brad would like to send up a demo out hear and ill hold it..hehehe!!.....or maybe even lower the price...another hehehe!.....good review bbtuna!....
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: garabdorje on October 01, 2011, 02:06:41 PM
Anyway, thanks to garabdorje for getting me all excited about my old passion.   


Your welcome!


Foosball where I live is also dead or should I say non existent  :( I was thinking about the possibility of opening up a Foosball Bar in my home town.  I live in Ensenada Baja California in Mexico, that's about and hour and a half south of the border of San Diego. It would be a huge task to educate my people about the sport of Foosball, but maybe it will be worth the trouble.


I will need to go to bars and interview people to know if they would be interested in a Foosball bar, that will help to know my chances of success. Also I need to know how much are they willing to spend in a match, or if they preferred to play by the hour like in pool tables.


Alcohol is also important hehe it attracts people, I need to figure out permits and all that legal stuff, and also very very important I will need to talk to Brad Laurine to know If he can help me out whit some tables, maybe we can get to an arrangement that benefits both parties.


Oh well it still is an idea, I need more time and investment. Hopefully by next summer It can be a more concrete plan of business, for now I can gadder all the information regarding whats needed to make the idea happen.


And I need to improve my foosing, I have been playing for about 4 month but I need to get better and better so I can show how to make the different shots to newcomers and get them interested in the sport. I am already hooked with the snake shot, I know its and incredible fast and strong shot, thats why I like it, but my table doesn't help a lot. It has heavy telescopic 1" rods. But the good thing is that it will help me make muscle  :P, once I can get my Fireball I will be lightning fast (hopefully hahaha or I will end up with a back strain  :o)
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on October 03, 2011, 03:42:26 PM
silentsam.....read your comments again and i swear i nearly choked..i cant beleive that all that crap happend to your table...my buddy slams hard and strong on his pull shot and toes as hard as ive seen um..for what reason..i dont know, but he does...for the Warrior to warp because of that kind of play is ridiculous..and hillarious..just cant understand it..all my men and ive bought extra..have all fit snug and tight not one is loose...the chrome that flakes on your table is another story...i havent seem one speck of flake yet and these tables are over 2years old..sounds kind of flakey...when we play which is every week...its as hard core as it gets...i own 2 Warriors and both are still the same as when i first got them......i know that i would love to own a Fireball table but its not happening now.....i still play on the Warrior and ill back them up 100%...all i can say is you probably ended up with one of the lemons...thats not your fault......
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: SilentSam on October 03, 2011, 06:15:09 PM
It's good that your tables are standing up, but keep in mind that the IFP and Warrior partnership ended due to the tables not withstanding tournament play. Basically Mary demanded that Warrior make a durable coin-op that wouldn't degrade, and when that didn't happen, she went with Tornado. I'm very surprised that your rods aren't flaking though; I've almost run through the equivalent of 2 sets...
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: jagiar on October 05, 2011, 07:49:03 AM
bbtuna, my comments on my Tornado table has nothing to do with play style or my personal table preferences.  I am not so silly to post on a forum where professional players visit and base my comments on my preferences.  In fact, my comment never mentions play style or preferences at all.  My comment stems solely from my use of my grey marble table, which from the reviews on this site and others, was the 'best built table ever' (and not just best TORNADO table).  So this would, by default, categorize the grey/brown table as better than any ITSF sanctioned table as of the date of the comments that I reviewed (as these comments were comming from many pro level players) (by the way, if I remember correctly, they 'fridge' was already out).  Now, if I recall correctly, the 'best built table ever' comments comprised of not only the robustness of the table, but also what you can do with it (in terms of shot/pass/play capabilites), etc.

Now in terms of shot/pass/play capabilities, as was mentioned here many times, every table has its pro/con characteristics. eg - a pin shot is easier on a Garlando than a Tornado, while a tic-tacing stick pass from the 5 to the 3 would be easier on the Tornado.  But this is neither here nor there as a general argument for which table is 'better' because it's all dependant on your playing style.  And when it comes to playing style we need to keep in mind that we should not just focus on the styles we are familiar with but also other styles we may not be familiar with.  As such, I'm sure Fireball would have it's own limitations where this is concerned.

My comments were based on the quality of build.  And from my experience, the 'best table ever built', simply isn't.  Now, it could be possible, as I implied to in my earlier post, that possibly the commentors who said the grey marble was the best did not have many years experience in testing the robustness of other tables to see if, over the long term, a grey marble stands up to other tables (and I'm not talking about the $100 Walmart special - which was a somewhat unnecessary comment, by the way).  This type of assesment, in my opinion, also needs to apply to Fireball.  As this is a recently introduced table, I think it may be premature to label it as the 'best' (regardless of preferences or what it can do).  Let's see how it stands up to the rogours of play over the years and then conclude.  That's all I was trying to say.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: snake eyes on October 05, 2011, 04:46:59 PM
So Jag please indulge us, If Tornado is firewood then what stand up to your rigors of strenuous play?
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: jagiar on October 05, 2011, 07:39:20 PM
Ok, I knew that posting such a comment on a predominately US based forum would get Tornado players panties in a wad, BUT I AM NOT SLAGGIN' TORNADO TABLES.

What I am saying is that we should refrain from saying "X table is the best table ever made" simply because I don't think any one player, or association for that matter, has enough experience with other tables over a long period of time and under several types of conditions to determine which is the best made.  This especially goes for Fireball tables as they are so recent to the market.  They may play nice, granted, but only time will determine of they stand up.  JUST AS THE GREY MARBLE TABLE IS NOT THE BEST EVER MADE (contrary to what you may read on foosball.com and in my opinion).

By the way, Tornado's are MDF, so not really good as firewood either. :)
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on October 05, 2011, 07:49:51 PM
thats right just like the WARRIOR tables..they fall the shreds after a period of time...they probably make good fire wood after a couple of years!!...but even the FIREBALL tables probably make just as good firewood...but very expensive wood....
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: Buckshot on October 06, 2011, 10:45:51 AM
"Best" ever made is necessarily a subjective value judgement, implying "best in my opinion". If a player has 3 or 4 decades of tournament experience under his belt his subjective opinion carries some weight. That is, he probably knows what he's talking about. Now another player with a similar background and experience may judge a different table as the best ever. So one has to ask, best based on what criteria? If their criteria are different, then they both might be correct. If their criteria are the same, then at least one of them has to be wrong. In the end, best really has to be determined by what is best for YOU, based on your own criteria and subjective judgement.
     My own personal subjective opinion of best ever was the Striker table, which they don't build anymore. Not only did it have great front & back pin and bankshot allowances, it also had better player and spectator visibility due to it's lower sidewalls and clear plastic goals. However, it wasn't really around long enough to accurately judge it's durability. Johnny Lott hit a home run with that one.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: jagiar on October 06, 2011, 05:32:10 PM
Well said buckshot.  My sentiments but better said.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: Buckshot on October 06, 2011, 06:03:12 PM
Thank you, jagiar.
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: bbtuna on October 06, 2011, 07:53:43 PM
well, again, what you are talking about is "best style of play" which is 100% subjective 100% opinion...it doesn't matter how long I have played or how many tables a person has played on, anyone can like the style of play of one table over another but build quality is NOT entirely subjective and can be compared objectively...

as an example, we can compare the build quality of Fireball coin op to a Tornado coin op and we can compare FB, T, W, and Striker top of the line home models build quality...we can compare T, W, and Striker top home models and how they stand up to rigourous use but Fireball will have to wait some time to show how their construction stands up over a period of time however, someone who knows something about how T, W, and Striker were made and what issues they had, can look at the choices FB has made and have an accurate picture of how they will stand up over time...this is true of their home models and their coin ops

W and Sriker everyone knew the tables had build issues from the first tournament on and there was no change even after they got feedback...FB on the other hand has had a bunch of tournaments and the feedback has been mostly positive and they don't have any of those same significant build issues that W & S had AND most importantly, they have taken feedback and implemented changes to develop their table and to improve even after its first run

you can objectively measure these things and compare them to Tor the table in the US that has a long history of solid build quality...not perfect for sure and I can document most of their issues and especially those in the last 7 years but still, world wide, Tor has been known as a tough table that can endure a beating which fits their original design intent...so it is pretty easy, to make item by item comparisons - leg design, table body design, materials used, how they are put together, the surface, the feet, the bearings, the rods, the bracing under the play surface, the hinges, the wall thickness and surface material used, the score marker systems, the men design intentions and end result, the surface material, the bolts used, the overall weight....all of these things can be judged objectively and a decision made as to what table does it better...and, FB is made better than Tor and far better than S and W...

now, how they play and which play style you like better is opinion
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: big al on October 06, 2011, 08:16:58 PM
once again BBTUNA has made it loud and clear..............FIREBALL!!....FIREBALL......yeah......FIREBALL!!!
Title: Re: What ever happened to Warrior tables?
Post by: eatbush on April 28, 2014, 01:41:27 AM
Warrior tables are still alive and kicking.  I plan on buying a warrior table this week. I like the great deal that I found. It'll cost me $507.00 delivered to my door complete with taxes and shipping. I would prefer to have a tornado but can't afford it. At least I'll have a better than average table to play and practice on.  But a tornado table is on my list.