Foosball.com Forums
Chat Area => General Chat => Topic started by: kgstewar on January 03, 2012, 12:10:38 PM
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Hi all,
I'm a newbie to the board but have been an avid recreational player for a while. I, like many others, am now searching for a used coin-op. I have found Tuna's thread invaluable and have set my sights on a brown marble table. I have found several on the various CL boards in NC (where I am) but the asking prices are much higher than Tuna's recommended range ($700-800 instead of ~$400). For example, one table that has remained unsold for over a month was originally listed for $500 (at which point I sent an inquiry) but now the seller reposted the same table for $800 (so I guess his strategy is a unique one: if the table doesn't sell, raise the price!). Another table, listed for $600, had so much water damage it should be thrown out.
So I guess my question is this: Are the prices I'm seeing on the NC CL boards reflecting unwarranted optimism on the part of the sellers? Or have the prices of brown marble coin-ops been rising?
Thanks!
Kevin
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Welcome to the board. I think what you're seeing right now is the same thing that I saw when looking for a table - tournament players tend to think their table is more valuable than it actually is. I can't tell you how many people I know that have a table or multiple tables for sale that have been on the market for over a year. They just can't come to grips that the market price for used tables is well below their asking price. I think Bbtuna might have mentioned in his thread you referenced that patience is key. It can be tough to wait for a good deal on getting a table when you have the foosball bug, but it tends to be well worth it. I found mine pretty quickly, but a friend of mine spent close to a year searching for deals before he finally found a good one.
What I did when I was looking was to shoot offers to people that was well below their offer price but well within the prices on tuna's thread. Of course they would turn it down, so I would just tell them that it's all I can spend right now and to let me know if they change their mind. Eventually, someone wanted to get rid of their table bad enough that they replied accepting my offer after initially turning it down.
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trust my pricing, if anything, its a little high since I last updated it...I have been tracking sales on eBay for years now and there is a big difference between what people ASK for a table and what they actually sell for...my numbers reflect actual sale prices not the silly and often insulting prices I see people post on eBay and CL. These people are either totally ignorant or they are trying to rip people off...I have seen people ask more money for a Brown Marble than you would pay for a brand new coin op purchased today and that is true of every table from brown forward. I have even seen people ask $1100-$1200 for a 5-10 year old Cyclone.
I have someone I play with regularly, new back to the game, found a current coin op model for $700, I have seen 8 different Grey's sell for $400 in the last year...these are not all on eBay most were through CL with people i was helping when they were buying. I can give you other anicdotal stories of $150-$250 Brown Marbles. As was pointed out, the key is waiting and searching the largest circle you can, getting your money ready, and making the offers. Learn what you are looking for while you search, know what to ask-what is a deal killer, what can be fixed or updated and how much it costs and how you can use that to negociate your price.
or spend the money once and buy new...if you do that, buy Fireball coin op...its a lot of money compared to used Tor coin ops but you will never regret it...but, I understand not everyone can do that but for those who can, its the best choice
good luck in your search and as xiek376 said, be patient, your deal will come...just keep asking and offering like they did, keep your search as wide as possible, and your day will come
contact me any time, I will answer questions and help in any way I can
charles
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Many thanks xiek and Tuna. Great advice and I will be patient.
Thanks!
Kevin
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So I've located a brown marble that is about 2 hours away from me. Very nice seller says it's in good shape, with some extra parts, etc. however the laminate has fallen off on three sides on the lower part. He has the pieces and says they are in good condition and could be glued back. Has anyone seen this kind of delamination before? Is it a deal killer? I have the basic skills to glue the laminate back on but was wondering if this phenomenon might be a well-known manifestation of a more serious problem. He assures me there is no water damage. We haven't agreed on a price yet. Thanks!
Kevin
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I wouldnt sweat laminate issues. Really you could use it as a bargaining chip. I have chipped off some laminate on the side of my table and I never even notice it. See if he will knock $50 off the selling price.
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I would be more concerned with WHY the laminate came off. It's unusual to just "fall off". Was it stored outside or in high humidity? I'd definitely be checking the laminate on the playing field and interior walls
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As Papa has said....lamimate does not just fall off, easpecially on 3 sides. The table was possibly exposed to humidity which can warp the playfield. Make sure the playfield does not have any problems and make for ABSOLUTE sure that you closely inspect the laminate on the inside of the table for bubbling or delaminating. Tap all of the walls with a ball feeling for any deadspots or hollow sounds.
If you think about it laminate would not fall off 3 sides and the other areas not be affected in some way.
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Yeah papa and John are right. My laminate chipped off when I hit a door frame while moving so I was assuming that just a bit was missing. If the whole piece(s) have just fallen off there may be bigger underlying issues.
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That is sage advice. I will certainly check out the integrity of the cabinet and flatness of the playfield.
So, assuming I actually get one of these tables, for transportation it appears that removing the rods will be necessary in order to fit the table into my Jetta wagon. Is this possible without removing the men? From reading past posts I think the process is as follows:
Remove handles (using pin punch)
Remove split bearings (using bearing wrench)
Now one rod end can be slid inside the play area and then lifted up and out.
Have I got that right? This method requires two specialized tools; can I use a big crescent wrench and a nail set if I don't have the special tools?
Thanks!
Kevin
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So, you need to:
Do not remove the handles
Punch out the pins on the men
Loosen the split bearings
Slide rods out of the men and the cabinet
Remove the scoring thingy so you don't break it
Raise the split-top
Slide the top assembly off the bottom assembly - the hinges are designed to do this
Remove the legs
Take the pieces home - probably in two trips
Hey, y'all - did I miss anything?
Really? It'll fit in a Jetta?
Sincere best wishes,
Paul
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Do not use a nail punch on the men - you need something strong (won't bend or flair), straight, flat at both ends and the correct diameter.
You can probably use a Channel Lock wrench on the bearings but be careful because they're only plastic.
Where are you??? Maybe we can find someone to lend tools.
Paul
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Hi Paul, thanks for the directions. I don't know where I got the idea you could remove the rods without removing the men. I'm in Raleigh, NC and may actually just order the tools from Charles McIntosh, since his shop is pretty close to me.
You would be amazed at what can fit into the Jetta wagon. I think if I remove the rods and legs, and take off the top part of the table at the hinges it should all fit in the back with the seats folded down.
Thanks again!
Kevin
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Hi Paul, thanks for the directions. I don't know where I got the idea you could remove the rods without removing the men. I'm in Raleigh, NC and may actually just order the tools from Charles McIntosh, since his shop is pretty close to me.
You would be amazed at what can fit into the Jetta wagon. I think if I remove the rods and legs, and take off the top part of the table at the hinges it should all fit in the back with the seats folded down.
Thanks again!
Kevin
You CAN remove the rods without removing the men, and what you listed is exactly what I would do. I would just remove the handles, and wouldn't touch the men...unless you were needing to replace the men, or wanted to upgrade them to the newest version. Make sure you put a wooden block under the rods when you start pounding on the rods with that punch tool thingy.
Once the rods have been taken out, then I have no doubt that everything will fit into your Jetta Wagon.
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So, I found a nearby table for sale. It's not a coin-op, but am I correct that this is a cherry/mahogany T-2000 without the coin-op mechanism? The leveling feet are either missing or locked inside the table, and the key is missing. I saw it in person: all rods are straight, all men are in good condition. The table looks to be in great shape. I'm a bit concerned that I cannot peek inside, but I'd be surprised if there were any major issues. I know I can get a replacement key and, if necessary, feet from Mr. McIntosh.
Thanks!
Kevin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/74659059@N03/
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I convinced myself that this is in fact a Mahogany T-2000, sans coin-op, and it is in very nice condition. I took the plunge! I paid $350 and once the keys arrive from Charles Mckintosh, I'll find out if I need to spend another $50 for the feet.
Thanks to all who assisted me in this process! Great forum!
Kevin
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Wow that was a great price!
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That's a steal. I have a cherry coin op at my work. Everyone loves it. It's also on free play. A fast fun table.
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that is exactly my table except that i have upgraded it along the way and have merkel rods on my side...great table, steal at $350 even if u end up having to buy the feet
great job
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that is exactly my table except that i have upgraded it along the way and have merkel rods on my side...great table, steal at $350 even if u end up having to buy the feet
great job
I owe my good fortune to your great advice! It s a beautiful table, and after cleaning off the dust, etc. I noticed that there is not a single scratch or mark on it. It looks brand new. I'm wondering if it has ever been used - perhaps that is why the feet weren't attached? In any case, it's a beauty and I can't thank you all enough for all the great advice I got from here. I'll take some pics now that it is all set up and in heavy use!
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As far as delaminating goes, that could have just been poor quality control doing the veneer at the cabinet shop. If they use an air sprayer for the glue and don't coat both surfaces adequately AND then don't press/roller it down to make the best surface contact and remove any bubbles, then you get delamination. Once you put the laminate on wrong you usually don't get a second chance to install the same piece. I had to learn that the hard way.