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Chat Area => General Chat => Topic started by: kgstewar on November 17, 2012, 08:29:01 AM
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I recently acquired a "vintage" B60 Bonzini table (early 70s, perhaps? I'm sending the serial number to Bonzini in hopes of discovering the actual manufacturing date). It clearly was a well loved table and now is in need of a little TLC. First thing I want to do is give it a thorough cleaning and was wondering if there are any particular tips or tricks to disassembling the table.
Do the men slide off easily once you loosen the bolt holding them on? Removing rods, etc. is fairly intuitive?
Also, am I correct that to maintain the value of such a table I should clean and lube but not try to refinish the cabinet, etc?
The Gerflex is not bad but there is one fairly deep scratch. Has anyone ever tried replacing this?
Thanks!
Kevin
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Well I discovered at least one thing the hard way :-). Not sure if there are many Bonzini people here but once I finish this project I'll post a how-to on Bonzini cleaning and disassembly for newbies like me.
Kevin
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And let me also put in a plug for bonzini usa. They have been really helpful!
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The one-man thread continues...
Three of my rods (both two-mans and one three-man) were bent enough that it really hampered their function. I debated about buying new ones (and may still eventually) but thought I'd try unbending them. I cooked up a scheme that really worked well!
The rods are 14 mm in diameter. I bought a 9/16" drill bit which is ever so slightly larger than 14 mm (by about .01"). I drilled a hole in two identical blocks of wood and clamped these into a vice so they were about 7" apart and the holes lined up (so imagine you could now slide the rod through the holes and the rod would be parallel to the jaws of the vice)
I removed all the men and hardware from the rods and rolled them back and forth on a flat surface and was able to identify the spot on the rod where the bend was. In all cases my rods were bent at a single spot: not a smooth arc but rather a straight segment, then a slight kink then another straight segment at a slightly different angle. I could even see a barely visible line on the rod where the bend was located. I suspect these are places adjacent to a man since the sharp edge of the man would concentrate the bending stress and tend to localize the deformation.
I marked the bend with a Sharpie and then slid the rod into the two clamped blocks. I positioned the mark so that it was right at the outer edge of the hole in one of the blocks. I then gently pushed the rod down to unbend it. I tended to push a little, let go, push a little, let go, and then would check my progress. It worked like a charm! I was able to get out ~95% of the bend in each rod. Not perfect, but WAY better than they were.
Kevin
P.S. I sent my serial number to the Bonzini factory and they told me my table was manufactured in 1972. Looking forward to playing on this 40-year-old table soon!
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Hi Kevin,
You've possibly been talking with Gloria at Bonzini USA. I'm the other half.
Where are you located?
If you need any help let me know, I love to refurb Bonzini's in my spare time.
Alan
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Hi Alan,
I have indeed been talking to Gloria. She has been great help!
I'm located in Raleigh, so not far from you at all. I definitely acquired an old Bonzini, lol, but even though it was built in 1972, as you well know, all the new parts are the same as the old ones. I'm trying to refurb it so it's clean and plays nicely but trying not to "over" restore it, if that makes sense. I don't want this great old table to lose its vintage character. Unfortunately, someone must have lost the cabinet key at some point and screwed a big padlock latch onto the front. The latch came off easily enough but now there are a bunch of ugly screw holes. Still trying to decide how to deal with that. Certainly won't affect how the table plays.
I've already ordered two batches of parts from you and no doubt will be ordering more. It's great to have you guys near by!
Kevin
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Kevin, it's always great to find Bonzini enthusiasts in the area. I'm trying to restore an old Rene Pierre myself, and Alan's definitely the man to hook you up when it comes to Bonzini. Just to let you know, we have a group of players that play Bonzini Friday nights at Fat Daddy's on Glenwood Avenue. We have a DYP(draw your partner) starting at 9. We have players of all levels and are always looking for more. If you're interested in playing some, come on by.
Mark
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for the invitation. On a scale from 1-10 my skill level is a solid 1. Once my table is operational and I can raise that level to 1.5 I'll be there!
Kevin
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Thought I'd post a few pics to show the work in progress. When I picked up the table, it looked like it had not been cleaned in 40 years. And not just grease and grime - SMOKE! A lot of the dirt was really hard to get off, almost like the nicotine and tar from the cigarettes had combined with the other dirt to form an incredibly durable filth shellac. Here is a man before and after. I tried soaking and scrubbing with a toothbrush but that only got off the surface dirt. Real success came after plunking the man into an ultrasonic cleaner with a splash of Simple Green in the water. The paint is a little rough but at least they are clean now!
Kevin
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0626.jpg)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0630.jpg)
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Clearly too much time on my hands today, so another post....
There are several pieces of aluminum on the Bonzini B-60 including 8-sided nuts that screw onto the bearings, the goals/scorekeepers/ashtrays, and the ball tray. Like the men, these were all really dirty and dull. I wanted to bring these parts back to the mirror shine that I've seen in photos of new tables.
I tried Nevr-Dull polish and some other liquid polish and those helped but the finish was still a ways from mirror-like. Then I picked up the "aluminum polishing kit" from Harbor Freight ($20 - 20% coupon, what a deal!). This has several buffing wheels that fit into your electric drill and three sticks of polishing compound in various grits. I started with the black, then moved to the brown, then finished with the white. It actually went pretty fast. First pic shows the original dull finish on the left and the polished finish on the right. Second pic shows the whole thing polished up and the score beads cleaned and Armor-all-ed.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0657.jpg)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0672.jpg)
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^^^^'solid 1'^^^^.........ROFLMAO
Tyler
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The aluminum ball tray was filthy but I could see that the outside of the tray was smooth and likely was once shiny so I took some sandpaper (400 through 1500 grit, wet sand) and then started to polish and it looks like it will shine up nicely (first pic). In contrast, the underside of the tray and the inside of the tray (second pic) are rough and full of casting marks, etc. This clearly never had a high polish. So, I have two questions:
1. Do modern B60s have a completely polished ball tray, inside and out? If so, I COULD sand and polish my ball tray so that it was completely shiny, but I'm thinking that would not match how the ball tray looked when it left the factory in 1972.
2. Does anyone know if any early 70s-era B60s had a completely shiny ball tray?
I know, I know...I'm overthinking this, but I like the idea of historical accuracy :)
Kevin
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0663.jpg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0665.jpg)
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That's a great project, and for my money, those beat up--but now clean--men are just great as is. So much character and history. Keep the photos coming!
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Cleaning the chrome...
The outer rods were in pretty good shape: no rust, a little bent, but I straightened them somewhat. The inner rods were straight, but the flange that screws to the table wall was very rusty. I don't have a "before" pic but I've attached an "after". I was able to clean these up using a buffer. Once again, Harbor Freight came through! I bought their 6" bench top buffer, normally $60, on sale for $40, and then I used my 20% coupon to get it for $32. The brown polishing stick that came with my aluminum polishing kit (see earlier post), followed by the white stick, cleaned them up nicely. I then followed with Blue Magic metal polish which cleans, polishes, and supposedly leaves a thin protective silicone film on the metal.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0683.jpg)
More chrome..The insides of the goals are thin sheets of chrome-plated metal that are nailed to the cabinet. These were dirty AND rusty. I didn't want to remove them because I thought I'd mangle them, but getting my electric-drill buffing attachment into the narrow opening was really not going to work. What to do?
A quick search of the internet turned up a GREAT way to clean rusty chrome: 1. Wad up a small ball of aluminum foil. 2. Run a little water over the ball. 3. Rub the chrome with slightly wet ball. 4. Stand back and look at the shiny, clean chrome in amazement.
(NOTE: some people recommended using Coca-Cola as the liquid for this technique. Apparently the small amount of phosphoric acid in Coke helps with rust removal. For me, plain water worked just fine and then I didn't have to clean up a bunch of sticky liquid after. If you try this, use water first, it may be all you need.)
I cannot believe how well this worked. Took all of about 20 seconds to clean up the chrome! I've attached a "before" and an "after" shot. Hard to see but there was quite a bit of rust before. After, chrome is clean and shiny and still retains all the dents, which give the table "character" :).
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0677.jpg) (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0687.jpg)
Also used this to clean up the coin-op face plate ("after" pic attached). In this pic you can also see the damage done by the padlock latch that was attached to the cabinet :(.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0693.jpg)
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kgstewar, Beautiful work on your vintage B-90 renovation. If you want the '72 autheticity ,you may want a couple of white painted cork balls-probably more for show than for go. The Rene Pierres of those days played white cork & were copys of Bonzini. I think Alan &/or Gloria would know. For modern play, you'll need the yellow ITSF-B balls. That's what you'll find at the DYP Mark Anderson mentioned,at BonziniUSA tournaments, & in Europe. They play great & will be easier on your Gerlex table top. Also, I just found out the B balls are dish washer safe. John
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John,
I wonder if you could freeze the ITSF-B balls and use them to cool drinks! Just thinking about Christmas gift ideas. Or would some of the material leech out and give you an uncontrollable urge to spin your wrists, expecting a thud sound right afterwards.....Humm.....will test it out, film at 11:00.
Tyler :)
PS. The restoration work is awesome and I really appreciate you taking the time to share it with all. It is amazing how durable Bonzini tables are.
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I had a nice conversation with Alan at BonzinUSA yesterday. He and his wife Gloria, as many of you know, are great folks and simply having them around is enough reason to own a Bonzini in itself! In addition to giving me many great tips on how to proceed with my restoration, Alan inspired me to do a FULL restoration including cabinet refinishing, etc.
I am definitely going to do this but my restoration had gotten to the point where I could actually put the table together and play on it. I stayed up til 1 am last night and got it all together and I was very pleasantly surprised at how great it feels. Rods all spin nicely (my bar straightening actually worked!), metal is all shiny, Gerflex is clean, if not pristine, and the cabinet has been thoroughly cleaned, inside and out. This table was a complete mess and unplayable when I bought it and now it looks nice and plays great!
So, I regard this point in the restoration as the end of Phase I. I envision Phase II including rehabbing the coin op mechanism (it works, it's just dirty and the coin box is missing), rehabbing the cabinet latch and hinges, replacing the red siderail strips, and possibly repainting the men. Phase III will be sanding and refinishing the cabinet and legs. Not sure when Phases II and III will be completed but I'm delighted to have a nicely working Bonzini B60!
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0281.jpg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0284.jpg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0285.jpg)
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Kevin, Looks like new. Tyler, good idea-first I'll drill a hole in it,I like those ice cubes with holes.
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Looking good Kevin for 40 years+.
Welcome to the Bonzini table owner family ;D
AC
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Thanks Alan and others for the encouraging words! I played my 8-year-old son on the Bonzini last night. His first words were "this feels weird" (as compared to the Tornado) but his last words were "I like it!". I have been amazed at how easily I can grab the ball with the toe as compared to the Tornado.
I've noticed that most modern parts fit my B60, but there have been a few minor changes over the past 40 years. Kind of fun to document when these happened. A short list:
- Sometime between 1972 and 1974 they started engraving the word "Bonzini" into the side of the cabinet
- Goal/ash tray has changed at least three times. Not sure the date of the changes. My 1972 has round ash trays with cigarette troughs that run parallel to the rods. This seems to have been superseded at some point by ashtrays that are more square with cigarette troughs that run perpendicular to the rods, which differ from the most modern ones I've seen which also have little "vents" cut out in the aluminum. Sometime in the 70s there were also ashtrays with holes in them, perhaps so the butts would drop down into a metal container inside the table? I wonder how many of these B60s went up in flames.
- cabinet lock went from skeleton key to modern key sometime between 1987 and 1990
- coin mechanism on my table takes one quarter (how quaint...) and looks a lot like the modern european coin mechanism which takes one euro. Modern USA B60s have the larger tray mechanism for multiple quarters.
- Top connected to base with three hinges at least until 1976. Modern B60s use two hinges.
- Beginning in 1987 there are 4 cabinet tie rods, before that there are only 2 cabinet tie rods.
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I need some help with a couple of issues :).
Issue 1: The locking mechanism on my ancient B60 uses this skeleton key:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/cle_bonzini_ancienne.jpg)
I have found these to be available on several French sites but the cost with shipping is ~$60. Does anyone know of a USA source for this key? Does anyone have an extra they'd like to sell? Does anyone have one they would be willing to send me so I could make a copy? :-)
Issue 2: Because the previous owners didn't have a key, I think they removed the parts that the latching mechanism slides into to secure the top. Would someone be able to snap a pic of the latch catch on the inside of their B60 so I could see what my table is missing?
Thanks!
Kevin
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Kevin,
Really interesting project. Great job!
I am curious what serial # your table is? Mine is around 6000, which places the manufactured date of 1966. This is supposed to be before any Bonzini tables were ever imported to the U.S., I really wonder if this is correct.
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Hi John,
Thanks! My serial number is 20877 so if your's is only 4 digits you must be significantly older than 1972. Did you send your number to Bonzini? They'll give you the manufacturing date, although it sounds like you may have already done that.
And actually I just saw that a 1974 table has a serial number of ~25600. So, doing some Bonzini backwards math, 6000 sounds about right for 1966.
And while I've got you, do you have the skeleton key to unlock your cabinet? They are hard to find in the US!
Kevin
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I have a B90 so unfortunately I have no key. I assume you already asked Alan.
I wonder how a Bonzini got here in 1966. The first cargo container known was 1972 which might be the one your table is out of. I guess it was a private owner that brought it.
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From what little I've read I think the first big shipment came in ~1970, so mine may have been in the second or third. Must have been very few Bonzinis in the US in 1966! Do you know the provenance of your table?
Alan mentioned to me that those keys are very hard-to-impossible to find around here. I may just splurge and get one from France. If I do, I will definitely make copies!
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The particle board bottom to the table was disintegrating and had sagged enough that the ball ramp was below the level of the ball tray. I pried and chiseled the piece out (it broke into many cookie-sized chunks) until I had a nice clean hole. I cut a piece of 1/2" birch plywood (which is slightly thinner than 1/2" so was very close to the original 10 mm thickness of the particle board) and nailed it in with 18 gauge brads. Put a coat of shellac on it and the inside of the table looks pretty spiffy now. I'll post a pic soon.
Kevin
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kgstewar,
While I was in France for the World Cup, I spoke with Mr. Gerard Bergaglia (president of Bonzini) about a key for your table. Short story is, good luck finding a key. The factory doesn't have any, and the company that was making the keys, is no longer making them. And since they are no longer in production, any key you find will be very expensive. Sorry for the bad news :(
Pat Ryan
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Pat, Wow! Many thanks for your efforts on my behalf.
So it turns out, I ended up brushing off my middle school french and did a search for "bonzini clef" on the french ebay and found one! Price plus shipping ended up being about $25 so not too bad. Key arrived a couple of days ago and works like a charm. Now I am going to take it to a locksmith and see if they can make duplicates (one in Raleigh swears they can so I'm hopeful). If I succeed I'll be happy to provide old-style Bonzini skeleton keys to anyone who needs one for the cost of duplication.
Thanks again Pat!
Kevin
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Sweet table, Bonzini is a work of art! ... glad you found a key. :)
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Thanks! And I've now decided to start the full-blown restoration (refinishing the cabinet etc.). I'll post photos and details along the way.
Kevin
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I sent my rods and men to Alan to get the men's feet shaved and decided to dive in to the full-blown restoration.
Although I had polished up my goals before, I felt like they were about 85% of the way I really wanted them. Part of the reason was that before, I could not remove the scoring beads from the goal. The picture below shows the underside of the top half of my table. The nut closest to the goal screws onto the threaded end of the scoring beads; the other is a bolt that screws into the bottom of the ashtray and holds the goal assembly onto the table.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0378_zps3cc3add4.jpg)
The threaded end of the scoring beads was REALLY stuck and before when I had unscrewed all of the nuts, I could not remove the scoring beads because the whole goal assembly would just come up with it.
So, the solution was to unscrew just the nut to the scoring beads and tap on the end of the threaded rod with a slender punch, which loosened the rod and pushed it up and out of the goal.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0379_zps823e2696.jpg)
This allowed me to separate the goal from the beads and then I could really clean up the goal.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0767_zps4f0462d4.jpg)
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The red rubber/plastic rails along the sides of my table were pretty beat so I think I will replace these. The plastic is super stiff and no way were they going to come off in my cold workspace. I picked up a heat gun at Harbor Freight ($40 marked down to $30 and then I also had a 20% off coupon!) and put it on the middle heat setting. Heated up the strip and it became much more pliable. I was able to pry it up pretty easily by slowly heating and working my way along. Initially I needed a screwdriver to pry it up but then I could just heat and pull, heat and pull.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0380_zps6184bdf1.jpg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0381_zps838b0eca.jpg)
Another use for the heat gun is that it works really well at striping off the old finish on the cabinet. I'll post some pics of that process soon.
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I had the pleasure of meeting Alan Cribbs in Raleigh today and he brought my men with freshly shaved feet. As part of my restoration I was hoping to retouch the paint on my men but Alan wisely advised that the paint was too far gone for a touch up and would need a whole new paint job, so that's what I started today.
I picked up some Citristrip paint stripper, which is less toxic and noxious than the old-fashioned paint removers. I slathered it on thickly and left it on for a couple of hours. The paint bubbled and wrinkled and 90% of it washed off while the remaining 10% came off with a light scrubbing with a steel-bristle brush.
I noticed that the paint seemed to be underlain by a coat of white paint, so I suspect there was a white primer underneath the finish paint. As you can see in the photo, the metal is pretty rough so a primer will also help smooth out these imperfections and hopefully make the finish coat smoother and shinier.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0423_zps43082a73.jpg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0429_zps73328f6e.jpg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0434_zps126550d9.jpg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0447_zps72521f17.jpg)
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I've also been working on the cabinet. Stripping off the old varnish with a heat gun and scraper, and then sanding. The photo below shows one corner with the old finish, complete with cigarette burns. The next photo shows the same corner but stripped and sanded.
Before:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0380_zps6184bdf1.jpg)
After:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0442_zps9fb1bf7f.jpg)
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An interesting discovery during my refinishing of the cabinet. The serial number on the lower cabinet is 20877. I sent this number to Bonzini and they told me the table was built in 1972. When I popped off the goal I noticed a different serial number on the top of the cabinet. In pictures of other B60s that I've seen, these two numbers have been the same, so at some point my table must have gotten a new top. The second number, 22578, is from either late 1972 or 1973, so the newer top is not that much newer.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0444_zps12f29eac.jpg)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0440_zps1bf0369b.jpg)
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This is fun to watch and I appreciate you sharing the photos and commentary. Alan is as good of a friend as anyone can have. And following your progress on what truly is furniture construction is so much more enjoyable than watching someone replace formica. :)
Tyler
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Kevin,
The base color is flesh tone.
The other colors are applied on top of it.
I didn't leave Fat Daddy's till 4:30 pm on Saturday. 6 hour refurb job. And they still need a little fine tuning.
Nice seeing you and your son. Good luck with your project.
Alan
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Tyler, thanks for the encouragement!
Alan, good to know about the flesh tone base coat, that will save me some time. I like how the flesh tone paint is an auto touch-up paint...A beige Citroen must be one beautiful car :-)
I really enjoyed meeting you and Robert yesterday, and thanks again for the work you did on my men!
Six hours? Wow, I need to get over there and play on what must be some nicely performing Bonzinis while my table is still a work in progress.
Kevin
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Dilemmas....This is a bit long, apologies in advance.
Problem #1 After removing the finish and sanding the ends of the upper cabinet, there remained some dark stains. These correspond to places where there had been scuffs and scratches that were deep enough that the finish was removed and bare wood had been exposed.
Attempted solutions: I thought they might just be stains, but bleaching the wood (using dilute household bleach as well as an oxalic acid wood bleach) did nothing. They did not easily sand out. Sanding may still work if I go deep enough, but I don't want to over sand and have visible valleys in the wood.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0453_zpsf15d2f42.jpg)
So what are these stains? I think I know.
Beech wood is naturally light colored. To achieve a darker color, some beech lumber is "steamed". Not sure what goes on in the wood fibers, but steamed beech is noticeably darker than raw beech.
I think the scuffs and scratches that removed the finish exposed raw beech lumber to 40+ years of North Carolina humidity (and cigarette smoke) and effectively "steamed" these areas, thus giving the darker colors. So what to do?
1. I could try to steam the whole cabinet and maybe that would darken everything and even out the color. I fear this would warp the wood though and I don't know how I would even do this.
2. I could sand a bit more and see if it comes out with a little more sanding. Heavy sanding will damage the cabinet, so if that's what it takes, I don't want to go this route.
3. I could simply varnish over it and live with the color differences as "character".
4. I could try making the table a "rustic" finish. Perhaps the darker stain would hide these variations.
Although I'll try solution 2, I think 3 and 4 are more realistic. I've decided to go buy a piece of european beech lumber, steam part of it to get the dark color, and then apply a rustic stain to see if it colors the dark and light parts of the wood more or less uniformly. That should show me whether solution 4 is viable. If not, solution 3 it is.
Good thing my hourly wage is $0.00!
Kevin
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problem #2
The previous owner(s) had lost the key to the cabinet and had attached multiple generations (apparently) of crude padlocks to secure the cabinet. The damage done by these installations is pretty significant and wood filler and sanding probably will only minimally improve the appearance. My current plan is to rout out a rectangular depression and inlay in a new piece of beech lumber, hopefully with similar color and grain. If I go this route, I'm not sure how evenly a rustic stain will take in the two different generations of lumber so this may affect which solution I choose in the previous post.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0448_zps0bfcb524.jpg)
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It's been a while since I've had some time to work on my restoration, but finally got back to it this week. I've stripped the cabinet but was pretty unhappy with the damage caused by the crude padlock the previous owners had screwed into the cabinet front. Here's what it looked like when I removed the padlock latch:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0693.jpg)
So I stripped the cabinet, sanded it, and tried using some beech-colored wood filler to plug the holes. It didn't look too good and it also didn't repair the split wood caused by driving big screws into the cabinet without pre-drilling the holes. Here's what it looked like after that repair:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0878_zps27d0460a.jpg)
I ended up cutting out all the damaged wood with my router and fitting in a piece of beech lumber. Brand new beech lumber is sure brighter than 40-year-old beech lumber! I may try to stain the patch to make it match better, but I actually don't mind the contrast all that much. I still need to drill and cut the key hole.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0883_zps2a5f3d0c.jpg)
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And now with keyhole. I drilled the hole with a 1/2" forstner bit and then used a coping saw to cut out the trapezoid.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0888_zps76480cd5.jpg)
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The original bottom of the table was particle board and it was disintegrating. I replaced it with a piece of 1/2" birch plywood, which fit nicely. Here you can see part of the refurbished interior with the new piece of plywood on the right-bottom.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0902_zpsc75fe599.jpg)
The interior of my table was unbelievably filthy when I got it so it took a lot of work to clean it. The original ball ramp (where the balls travel when they get dumped from the coin-op mechanism) was a thin piece of hardboard that mice had decided was a perfect place to live under. I ripped it out so I could clean out all the mouse crap. The ball ramp has to slope in a couple of directions, so the way they did it at the factory was to put some tapered wooden braces under it and then fire about 50 staples into the hardboard to force it down onto the wooden braces. The end of the ramp that meets the aluminum ball tray really had to be forced down so that was solid staples.
I thought that was kind of ugly and inelegant, so I cut out a new piece of 1/8" hardboard and put just a few nails around the interior edges of the ramp to hold it firm. To secure the front lip, I squirted some heavy-duty construction adhesive along the lower edge and clamped it. Now the ball ramp is secure and has no visible staples.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0895_zps0359387c.jpg)
before, the leading edge of the hardboard ramp here was marred by a bazillion staples.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0898_zpsc015a63a.jpg)
Inside the ramp is a lot smoother now without all of the rusted staples protruding.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0901_zps1c24e6b4.jpg)
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Working on my men. They started off pretty grungy (first pic) were a bit clean-upable (second pic) but the paint was rough. Alan Cribbs kindly ground the sides of the feet flat and so I went ahead and stripped the paint off (third pic) and repainted the men. I used Testors gloss black, red, and white and bought some official Bonzini beige and blue paint from Alan. For the eyes, eyebrows, and mouth I used the extra fine Deco color enamel paint pens. These definitely make the job simple. I started with the flesh color first, then white, then blue or red, then black. I had to go back and do a second coat of white, and then a little touch up of the other colors where I missed spots or flubbed it. Last thing was to draw on the eyes and mouth. I then baked the men in a 175 degree oven for about an hour, hopefully that will harden up the paint nicely.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0626.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0626.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0630.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0630.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0447_zps72521f17.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0447_zps72521f17.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/Image-2_zpsb4dc9185.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/Image-2_zpsb4dc9185.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/Image2_zpsadc03465.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/Image2_zpsadc03465.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/Image1_zps9e76f447.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/Image1_zps9e76f447.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/Image3_zps0765fb97.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/Image3_zps0765fb97.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/Image_zps8be121d9.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/Image_zps8be121d9.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0613_zps60bcf34c.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0613_zps60bcf34c.jpg.html)
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Thank you for posting your work of art in progress, Love it!!!!
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Hey KGSTEWAR,
would you be interested in selling? please email me the details if so. I am in the market to buy a bonzini coin op table, let me know.
Cheers,
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Hi Boomer,
Thanks for your interest, but I think I'm going to hang on to this one. If I learn of any other B60s for sale, I'll let you know. Where are you located?
Kevin
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I'm in Vancouver Canada, please do let me know. been on the search for a while. Cheers!
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Finished up painting the men. As I said in an earlier post, I used Testors enamel for the white, red, and black, and "Pinsolac" paint from Alan Cribbs for the blue and beige. The Pinsolac paints are clearly higher quality than the Testors and are automotive touch-up paints. They dry harder and glossier than the Testors although the Testors are probably fine. One thing I learned is that to thin the Pinsolac paints you need to use lacquer thinner, regular paint thinner won't work (although regular paint thinner works fine for the Testors). In the future, I might look for a gloss black, white, and red in an automotive touch-up paint to get the same quality as the Pinsolac paints. In any case, here is a red man in all four stages stages of restoration:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0626.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0626.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0630.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0630.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0447_zpsb038fa19.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0447_zpsb038fa19.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0617_zpsbe67bbde.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0617_zpsbe67bbde.jpg.html)
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Looks great! Can't wait to see the finished product.
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Getting close to having the cabinet refinished. The cabinet was in bad shape. Here's what I did:
1. Replaced disintegrating particle board bottom with 1/2" birch plywood
2. Cleaned everything inside
3. Applied two or three coats of shellac to the inside. This basically just seals the wood and makes future cleanup easier.
4. Replaced hardboard ball ramp
5. Reglued veneers on the curved plywood on the bottom ends of the table
6. Stripped finish using heat gun and putty knife.
7. Sanded everything
8. Repaired damaged wood near keyhole
9. Applied a couple coats of SealCoat (this is just thinned shellac).
10. Sanded some more.
11. Wiped on about 8 coats (or more - I lost track) of Arm-R-Seal gloss finish. Sanded with 400 or 600 grit sandpaper between coats
12. I haven't done this yet, but once the polyurethane has cured for a couple of weeks, I'm going to sand with super fine sandpaper (MicroMesh) to even out and gloss up the finish.
Pictures to follow.
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Some pics of the lower part of the cabinet:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0621_zps5a7509ec.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0621_zps5a7509ec.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0620_zps6db7dab4.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0620_zps6db7dab4.jpg.html)
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Upper cabinet. I removed the little rounded wooden inner bumpers before sanding and replaced them using the original nails.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0630-1_zpsc022e29d.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0630-1_zpsc022e29d.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0633_zps21cfeef5.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0633_zps21cfeef5.jpg.html)
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I highly recommend Arm-R-Seal. Very easy to apply and dries super hard and glossy. This is a "wipe-on" finish so is a little runnier than most polyurethanes. I tried using a foam brush and a cotton rag but by far the best was using a folded up sheet of one of those blue "shop-grade" paper towels that you can get by the roll at Lowes or Home Depot. Wipe-on finishes go on a little thin so it takes a lot of coats to build up a nice glossy finish. I probably had between 8-10 coats, but they go on fast so its really not much trouble.
I used about a quart for this whole project.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0636_zpsc0f29207.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0636_zpsc0f29207.jpg.html)
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Working on the legs. They were in pretty rough shape: chipped paint, split wood, etc. I glued the splits back together and sanded everything with 80 grit sandpaper to get off most of the paint. I did this outside, wearing a mask, figuring that paint from 1972 probably had lead in it. I then filled all the holes and dents with wood filler and sanded everything smooth up to 220 grit. I put on a couple of coats of SealCoat, sanded with 220, and then painted with gloss black Rustoleum spray paint. Looks much better!
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0641_zpsbfeeb1b2.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0641_zpsbfeeb1b2.jpg.html) (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0673_zps503c0434.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0673_zps503c0434.jpg.html)
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And also working on the rods... In an earlier post I talked about straightening the rods and cleaning them up. I actually am going to try to do an even better job of rod straightening so that will show up in a later post. Right now I am cleaning some more. It was easy to clean the inner rods and the outsides of the outer rods, but the outer rods have a threaded end that holds an internal spring so the inside of the outer rods can't be cleaned well without first removing the threaded end and spring. The threaded end is held in place by a small 3mm pin. It turns out the head of a 4d finish nail is just the right size to push out the pin:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0667_zps88f68533.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0667_zps88f68533.jpg.html)
Once the pin is out, the threaded end slides out and so does the spring. I cleaned these up and set them aside. To clean the rust out of the inside of the rod I did the following:
1. Bought two of these gun cleaning kits from Walmart (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Outers-Universal-Gun-Cleaning-Kit/20703052. Each cost about $9, I think). It has two threaded rods which screw onto a third rod that has a handle attached as well as various brushes, etc. I bought two of these kits because I needed three handle-less rods.
2. screwed three rods together and then screwed on one of the smaller brass brushes onto the end.
3. inserted this long rod into the chuck of my electric drill.
4. Tore off a piece of steel wool and wrapped it around the brush at the end of the rod. The brush grabs hold of the steel wool.
5. Sprayed some WD-40 on the steel wool and into the rod.
6. Put this contraption into the rod and squeezed the trigger of the drill. This spun the steel wool inside the rod and I would just move it up and down the length of the rod.
7. Pulled out the drill and then used the gun cleaning rod to run a small patch of cotton cloth down the bore to wipe out all the oil and rust.
Last picture shows the inside of the rod. This was dirty and rusty and is now clean and shiny!
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0661_zps951a3cf4.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0661_zps951a3cf4.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0665-1_zps0585fcf3.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0665-1_zps0585fcf3.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0670_zps19a176e0.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0670_zps19a176e0.jpg.html)
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I don't know why it never occurred to me to use a drill. I attach gauze and use the gun cleaning solvent, but WD-40 with steel wool seems like it would work a whole lot better. The legs on yours were so much better than mine. Mine were severely rotted at the feet.
Do you know anything about brazing and unbrazing? My new Rene Pierre has men brazed to the rod as opposed to screws. I have a two man rod where the men are off by about 20 degrees. How did they miss that at the factory? I know I need to heat it up so I can turn it, but I don't want damage the rod or the men. Bonzini is so much better than Rene Pierre. I love my new table, but there's definitely a gap in quality.
Great job! Very informative for us do-it-yourselfers.
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I don't know why it never occurred to me to use a drill. I attach gauze and use the gun cleaning solvent, but WD-40 with steel wool seems like it would work a whole lot better. The legs on yours were so much better than mine. Mine were severely rotted at the feet.
Do you know anything about brazing and unbrazing? My new Rene Pierre has men brazed to the rod as opposed to screws. I have a two man rod where the men are off by about 20 degrees. How did they miss that at the factory? I know I need to heat it up so I can turn it, but I don't want damage the rod or the men. Bonzini is so much better than Rene Pierre. I love my new table, but there's definitely a gap in quality.
Great job! Very informative for us do-it-yourselfers.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your encouragement! I'm afraid I know nothing about brazing/unbrazing. I have a vague recollection of an earlier thread where someone had an old french table and ran into the same problem as you are having. I think there is a way to do it but I couldn't find the thread.
Good luck with your table!
Kevin
EDIT: Found the thread I was thinking of. Not sure if this helps - http://foosball.com/forum/index.php?topic=5126.msg23033#msg23033
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The playfield has one deep scratch (lower left in photo) and a big discolored patch (center left). At first I thought I could just get a new sheet of Gerflex from Alan and Gloria but then realized that the particle board base was really sagging in the middle. When it's installed in the cabinet it flattens it out somewhat, but it has a lot of ups and downs. The particle board they used in 1972 was really pretty bad stuff and a little moisture or humidity would permanently deform it. So, I'm going to get a new sheet of Gerflex and try to build a new base using plywood.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0684_zpsb3ebdcfb.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0684_zpsb3ebdcfb.jpg.html)
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The rods. When I first bought the table most of the rods had at least a slight bend and a few had some pretty big bends. I managed to straighten them all to the point where they were playable but wanted to see if I could fine tune their straightness. I built the jig shown below using 3/4" plywood and one thick board. I drilled two holes (3/4") and inserted a couple of the red nylon Bonzini bearings into the holes. I could slide a rod through the holes and with the handle attached, spin the rod. I could see where the high spots were and used a piece of wood as a lever and pushed down on the rod. I'd do this a few times until the rod was straighter. I was able to straighten 6 of the 8 outer rods but had to give up on two of the rods that had a pretty complicated "s"-bend in them. I ordered a couple of outer rods from Bonzini USA to replace these.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0697_zpsf4c33e0f.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0697_zpsf4c33e0f.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0699_zps505eb28e.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0699_zps505eb28e.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0700_zpsbcadb816.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0700_zpsbcadb816.jpg.html)
The inner rods were all pretty straight, but I noticed that most of them were a bit droopy; that is, when the flange side of the inner rod was mounted to the side of the table, the rod was not centered in the opposing hole but would rest on the bottom of the hole. On my jig I drilled three holes so I could mount the inner rod on one side, and cut a slot on the other side. This way I can lift and bend the rod slightly so that it is centered when mounted, shown by the pencil line. I plan to continue using this jig to keep my rods tuned up once the table is finished.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0703_zps74e651ae.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0703_zps74e651ae.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0701_zpsf61e6d52.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0701_zpsf61e6d52.jpg.html)
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Took me a few tries to get the cabinet finish just how I wanted it but seem to have found a recipe that works. As I said above, I used gloss Arm-R-Seal as the finish. This does give a nice glossy finish, but it's almost too glossy, sort of sparkly, if that makes any sense. I figured the sparkle was because the finished surface was not as flat (geometrically speaking) as it could be. To remedy this, I sanded the cured finish gently with 800 through 2000 grit sandpaper and then buffed it out using an electric polisher/buffer. Started with 3m Rubbing Compound and then followed that with Turtle Wax Polishing compound. Last thing I did was to put on a coat of Johnson's Paste Wax. Photo below shows the final surface on the top half of the cabinet:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0724_zpsaca774d8.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0724_zpsaca774d8.jpg.html)
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Now working on building a new playfield base. The original base was made from 10 mm particle board but this was in pretty bad shape and had a real sag to it. Finding 10 mm plywood is pretty hopeless but I discovered that you can get Baltic Birch plywood in a 3/8" thickness, and when I measured this with my metric calipers it came out to 9.6 mm. Not perfect but hopefully close enough, and if not I can shim it a little. I cut a piece that will serve as the base and dropped it into the upper cabinet to test the fit. At first glance, looked pretty good:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0706_zps4878fac6.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0706_zps4878fac6.jpg.html)
But on closer inspection, I noticed that the gaps between the new board and the cabinet frame were uneven. For instance, the next two photos shows the gap at one goal end is fairly large at one corner, and non-existent at the other:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0707_zps299cfec1.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0707_zps299cfec1.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0708_zpsf8b88240.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0708_zpsf8b88240.jpg.html)
So, either I cut the plywood badly or the top cabinet frame is not square. To check squareness of the cabinet, all you have to do is measure the diagonals: if it's square they should be the same. Two photos below show that is not the case. First diagonal is a bit over 65.5". Second diagonal is a hair under 66".
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0716_zps72f93447.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0716_zps72f93447.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0714_zps8d46a0de.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0714_zps8d46a0de.jpg.html)
The solution is to clamp the long diagonal and try to bring it into square. Second photo below shows a more-or-less consistent gap now along the goal-end of the base. I'll clamp it like this and glue in some small wood blocks in the interior corners to hold it square.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0718_zps30332d44.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0718_zps30332d44.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0719_zps8e10c5a0.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0719_zps8e10c5a0.jpg.html)
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Rebuilding the playing surface.
The Gerflex playing surface on the table was in pretty bad shape and the particle board base had a pronounced sag. I decided to get a new sheet of Gerflex and to build a new base.
These pictures show the old base. It was made from a 10 mm sheet of particle board, with beechwood corner ramps. Stapled to this was a 2.5 mm sheet of fiberboard, and the Gerflex was glued to that. On the underside of the particle board were strips of plywood that had various cutouts to accommodate the hinges. I disassembled the old surface and salvaged the corner ramps so I could reuse those.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0684_zpsb3ebdcfb.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0684_zpsb3ebdcfb.jpg.html) (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0688_zpsa9306816.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0688_zpsa9306816.jpg.html) (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0689_zps69bda96f.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0689_zps69bda96f.jpg.html) (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0694_zps17428bb9.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0694_zps17428bb9.jpg.html) (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0733_zpsfcf69854.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0733_zpsfcf69854.jpg.html)
I made my new playfield base out of 3/8" Baltic Birch plywood. The strips on the underside are also 3/8" plywood and you can see the rather complicated mortise I had to cut out to accommodate the hinges.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0744_zps2e947535.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0744_zps2e947535.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0752_zps19ae9bd1.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0752_zps19ae9bd1.jpg.html)
Reusing the old corner ramps saved some time. On the original play field these were glued and stapled. I used mostly glue and a couple of 18 gauge brads to hold them tight.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0755_zps8257ccee.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0755_zps8257ccee.jpg.html)
I then attached a piece of 1/8" hardboard to the surface. This is a little thicker than the original (by about 0.5 mm) which made it feel substantially sturdier than the original. The 2.5 mm hardboard that they used feels super flimsy.
The original hardboard was attached with many many tiny staples and no glue. I went with many fewer 18 gauge staples (1/2" long) and some construction adhesive. The hardboard "blisters" a little around the staples so I filled and sanded those spots smooth. The sheet of hardboard I used was slightly oversized, so after I attached it, I went around the table with my router using a flush trim bit, and trimmed it flush!
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0987_zps032b8063.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0987_zps032b8063.jpg.html)
Next step is to glue the new Gerflex sheet on to the hardboard.
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Starting to put it all back together. First two shots are a before and after of the same part of the table. Really wish I had taken more "before" photos, because this thing was in ROUGH shape.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0693.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0693.jpg.html)(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0781_zpsf6496d40.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0781_zpsf6496d40.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0764_zps64d4a6e3.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0764_zps64d4a6e3.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0778_zps498f6787.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0778_zps498f6787.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0780_zpse6dee6f0.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0780_zpse6dee6f0.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0776_zpsd2f46f14.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0776_zpsd2f46f14.jpg.html)
Still need to glue on the new Gerflex, then should have the table completely finished by the end of this weekend.
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Thank you for posting all this. That looks like one hell of a project. I bet the table is going to play amazing when your finished. Awesome Job!
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Nice job man!!
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Thanks Rob and AT, it has definitely been a learning experience! I am REALLY looking forward to finishing this project :-)
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Side rails. Replacing the plastic side rails seemed like a good way to spruce up the table. They come rolled into a fairly tight coil and - at room temperature - the plastic is super stiff. The rails have a small lip on the underside that fits over a metal channel that is screwed to the top edge of the table (you can see the metal channels if you scroll up a couple of posts). The only way to get the rail on is to heat it up to make it more pliable. To do this, I submerged the rails in a pot of hot water (~180 degrees). At that temperature the plastic is very pliable and can easily be fitted onto the metal channel. The rail material is slightly long so you don't have to be super careful getting the ends just right. Just leave a little excess and then trim with a utility knife.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0791_zpsc6b07e22.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0791_zpsc6b07e22.jpg.html)
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Putting the rods in the table. I put the men on the rods using the spacing provided on the french Bonzini site, under their FAQ (http://www.bonzini.com/en/football-table/Products/FAQ-Maintenance/). When I attached the inner rods I noticed that on one side of the table, the rod rested on the bottom of the opposite hole, while on the other side of the table the rod rested on the top of the hole. I had originally thought that the misalignment was due to the rod being bent, but this pattern suggests instead that the sides of the table are in fact parallel to each other but slightly tilted. Rather than bend the rods, I just put thin paper shims under the bottom or top of the flange on the inner rod and was able to get them centered:
before shimming:
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0795_zps4844320d.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0795_zps4844320d.jpg.html)
after shimming
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0796_zps633a167e.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0796_zps633a167e.jpg.html)
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Rods all assembled and in the table.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0806_zpsd1573e65.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0806_zpsd1573e65.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0799_zps216c1649.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0799_zps216c1649.jpg.html)
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Attaching the Gerflex I used 3m 80 spray adhesive. This stuff is pretty expensive and I could only find it on the internet but it's what 3m recommended for gluing vinyl to wood.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0784_zpsc1a21e50.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0784_zpsc1a21e50.jpg.html)
When you spray it out it comes out almost like spider webs. I did a couple of criss-crossing coats on each surface.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0786_zpsd1319614.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0786_zpsd1319614.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0785_zps087109e6.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0785_zps087109e6.jpg.html)
I put the sheet on, starting in the middle and rolled it on. The Gerflex was a little oversized and I was able to trim that easily with a utility knife.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0789_zps7014de1f.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0789_zps7014de1f.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0787_zpsbf311704.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0787_zpsbf311704.jpg.html)
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Major setback....
I built my new play field base out of 3/8 plywood. I chose plywood because it was the only material I could find that was close to the 10 mm thickness of the original playfield. In hindsight, this thickness is not so critical, and plywood turned out to be a bad idea. Throughout the building of the play field I would obsessively check the flatness using a steel straightedge and it was always perfect. Then after I glued on the Gerflex, I checked again and it had warped into a "dome". Argggh. I don't know how or why this happened but plywood is warpable and I should have known that. If it had warped into a "basin" instead of a dome, then I might have been able to get it flat by putting some shims under the surface, but a dome required the following remedy. This got out some of the warp, but not all. I suspect I'll need to build a new play field, this time using particle board, which is very flat and doesn't warp because all the bits of wood in it are randomly oriented.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_0798_zps4f636736.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_0798_zps4f636736.jpg.html)
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This is very good to know since I am planning on creating a surface from scratch as well on a Rene Pierre. I'll be using my own marmoleum, which has a backing which makes it thicker, but I'm more concerned with what I use as the surface. I'll have to have a thinner surface to make it work with the marmoleum. I'm really concerned now as to what material to use. I would prefer to have a surface with ZERO give, but Bonzini and Rene Pierre should have some give to play the way that they do. Maybe quarter inch metal plate surface? I don't know. Any ideas?
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This is very good to know since I am planning on creating a surface from scratch as well on a Rene Pierre. I'll be using my own marmoleum, which has a backing which makes it thicker, but I'm more concerned with what I use as the surface. I'll have to have a thinner surface to make it work with the marmoleum. I'm really concerned now as to what material to use. I would prefer to have a surface with ZERO give, but Bonzini and Rene Pierre should have some give to play the way that they do. Maybe quarter inch metal plate surface? I don't know. Any ideas?
I think I'm going to try 5/8" particle board. This is flat, a little bendy, but not much, should not warp, and is available at Lowes. The extra thickness will require some creative shimming but shouldn't be too bad.
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I was hoping to get a surface that fits like the old one to avoid altering the cabinet.
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Yeah, you might be able to duplicate the original thickness. In my Bonzini, the total thickness of the playfield was made up from a combination of various pieces that were attached to each other. You might be able to do the same with your table. Although the individual pieces that you use may be different thicknesses from the original, the sum may be the same. Just avoid using plywood for the big sheet part of the base!
Kevin
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So what did you too find was the best material for buidling a new floor from scratch? Thanks, Craig
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I'm going to use particle board.
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Last time I posted I was faced with an upwarped-into-a-dome playfield and was going to build a new playfield out of warp-resistant particle board. I ended up just installing my warped playfield because it was taking me too long to actually build the new one. This turned out to be a good idea because thanks to the miracle of gravity, my playfield unwarped itself and is now pretty flat and very playable. I probably will build a new playfield at some point, but the current one works great, so no urgency. I went ahead and took some photos of the finished (for now :)) restoration. Table has been getting a lot of use!
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1098_zpsf418fed6.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1098_zpsf418fed6.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1099_zpsebda4eeb.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1099_zpsebda4eeb.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1100_zpseccc96fc.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1100_zpseccc96fc.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1102_zpsa53320cf.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1102_zpsa53320cf.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1103_zps67a5a361.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1103_zps67a5a361.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1104_zpsdff9e0d1.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1104_zpsdff9e0d1.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1105_zpsd3799f10.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1105_zpsd3799f10.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1106_zps7c74ba89.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1106_zps7c74ba89.jpg.html)
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1107_zpsa74d2296.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_1107_zpsa74d2296.jpg.html)
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Wow, Great Job!
I am now gathering the parts to build a tournament size foosbal table. I have everything in place except for the rods. I was thinking of 5/8" stainless steel tubes or full aluminium rods, but when I saw your table I thought about telescopic rods...
Can you please tell me what are the length, inner and outer diameter of the internal and external rod?
Is the internal rod welded to the flange?
Also is there any kind of slide bushing or bearing that helps the rods to slide smoothly or is it just a lubricant? Any close up photos would be great...
Thanks
Nadav
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Thanks! I'm afraid with the table assembled it's not easy to provide the measurements or photos that you have requested. The internal rod is attached to the flange although I'm not sure how. There is no internal bushing, just lubricant.
I suggest visiting the Bonzini website and they might have the information. Good luck!
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Thanks. I found 14mm external rod and 9mm internal rod which suggests maybe 1.5-2 wall thickness...
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Although there is no internal bearing or bushing inside the outer rod, it does have a rather complicated threaded end plug and internal spring. Bonzini-style rods are great, but they would be hard to duplicate unless you had access to a metal lathe and milling machine. Tornado-style rods would be much easier.
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Hello!Nice job on the table.I recently acquired an old coin op Rene Pierre table that is in good condition.I need to restore the playing surface as the table came with what appears to be a ping pong table cut to the dimensions of the table.The corners are not sloped and it doesnt have the "linoleum" surface.Any suggestions as to where I can get a schematic or plans to make my own.The slopes and linoleum are my main concerns.I know that Rene Peirre has the linoleum for sale on their website,but dont know how to purchase it.They have an American distributor,but they dont carry any parts as of yet here in the states.Also,does your coin mech work and if so,can you explain how?Any suggestions...???
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Piece of art!!!
beautiful, congratulations!
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Hello!Nice job on the table.I recently acquired an old coin op Rene Pierre table that is in good condition.I need to restore the playing surface as the table came with what appears to be a ping pong table cut to the dimensions of the table.The corners are not sloped and it doesnt have the "linoleum" surface.Any suggestions as to where I can get a schematic or plans to make my own.The slopes and linoleum are my main concerns.I know that Rene Peirre has the linoleum for sale on their website,but dont know how to purchase it.They have an American distributor,but they dont carry any parts as of yet here in the states.Also,does your coin mech work and if so,can you explain how?Any suggestions...???
Thanks! Not sure where you could get plans but the sloping corner braces should be easy to make. Just mimic the curves along the bottom of the "curbs" that rim the play field (this is assuming the Rene Pierre has these features). As far as the linoleum (actually Gerflex), contact Alan Cribbs at bonziniusa.com. I bought a sheet from him and I think the Bonzini Gerflex should be the same as the Rene Pierre. Ask Alan to be sure, he'll know.
Yes, my coin mechanism works. Not sure how to answer your second question: When you put a quarter in, it releases a catch that allows the rod to be pulled out which tips the ball tray. Is that what you wanted to know? I have mine set on free play which can be done by simply unhooking one little spring inside the mechanism.
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Piece of art!!!
beautiful, congratulations!
Thanks!
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Yeah I contacted Alan and was delighted by his knowledge of foosball.If its not a problem could you post a close up of the coin mechanism so I can see the part your talking about.Also,what type of black paint should I use to restore the players feet?Oil based,latex?Thanks again....Jeff
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I used Testors gloss black for the feet. If I had to do it over, I think I'd look for a gloss black auto touch-up paint. The paints I bought from Alan Cribbs (blue and beige) were french auto paints and gave a nicer finish. Testors works fine but is just not quite as thick, glossy, and durable as the auto paints.
Here's a link to a video I made of the coin mechanism in my Bonzini. First I show how it works with a quarter and then free play.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/th_IMG_1875_zpsnsutjuck.mp4) (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_1875_zpsnsutjuck.mp4)
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Thanks for the video.Heres a picture of one side of my coin mech.I just made a video.Just waiting for it to upload and I will link it up....
having technical troubles
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http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/Jedi711/media/20150425_195534.mp4.html
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As you can see,when I drop a quarter in the slot,it doesnt catch anything.I am wondering if there are parts missing on the right side......
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As you can see,when I drop a quarter in the slot,it doesnt catch anything.I am wondering if there are parts missing on the right side......
Could be, it looks like the Rene Pierre mechanism is different from the Bonzini. Might want to try starting a new thread and see if the Rene Pierre owners can give you some insight.
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I was excited to browse through the 7 pages of this restoration, but Photobucket sort of put a damper on that. Such a bummer!
Would love to see the final product kgstewar - I realize this thread is 2.5 years old :D
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Thanks for pointing this out. I went to photobucket to see what I need to do to reinstate 3rd party hosting and they want $400! No way! I'll take the photos and put them on a new site and get this up and running again. Might take a few days.
https://www.csoonline.com/article/3205765/internet/photobucket-replaced-millions-of-images-with-ransom-demand.html
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Yep - I'm familiar with the ol' Photobucket cash grab...such a bummer. I have some threads like this in other forums where I documented my audio journey and now all the embedded photos are gone :(
Looking forward to seeing how your project turned out. I want a Bonzini so bad!!!!
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Where do you live?
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Where do you live?
Hi Alan - I'm in Minnesota.
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If I hear of anything available in your area, I'll let you know.
Alan