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Chat Area => Archives => Topic started by: Daniel on February 08, 2005, 03:45:28 PM
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:P
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I responded with the pull, since that's what I use.
But my favorite to see in action is a push-kick. When done well it's really fun to watch. Ditto the back-pin, but it's not really a serious shot.
The eclipse (aerial without getting the ball up on the men) is my favorite trick shot--tough to do on Tornado but I know one guy who can. You basically knock the ball off the side strip, then when it pops up off the wall you hit the bottom of the ball with the man. low-percentage but amazing. Garlando players shoot it a lot more.
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...But my favorite to see in action is a push-kick. When done well it's really fun to watch. Ditto the back-pin, but it's not really a serious shot...
Okay Sumner... It's On! All Back-Pins All Night on Wed... Get youself and bring you backpin defense to Champions! That table is great for back-pins... dead-man both sides... backpin reverses... backpin brush splits, backpin banks.. and even a masse or 2 if you like!!!
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Only 3 votes out of 717 members I guess I need better polls.
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The eclipse (aerial without getting the ball up on the men) is my favorite trick shot--tough to do on Tornado but I know one guy who can. You basically knock the ball off the side strip, then when it pops up off the wall you hit the bottom of the ball with the man. low-percentage but amazing. Garlando players shoot it a lot more.
So do Jupiter players ;D
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okay, i must admit, that my favorite shot is the snake, in any direction. only because most people i play cannot stop it yet. when i run into someone who can, i usually go with a combo of banks, and/or a straight push. but the snake is fun if it is falling.
ben
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okay, i must admit, that my favorite shot is the snake, in any direction. only because most people i play cannot stop it yet. when i run into someone who can, i usually go with a combo of banks, and/or a straight push. but the snake is fun if it is falling.
You will go a lot further if you work on improving the snake to the point where if someone is blocking it, you can adjust and find a way to score!
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I haven't seen the snake done yet, my friends and I have tried it but it seems rather weird. They were telling me how they watched some videos of Pros and the way they defend their goal is completly different than us. My favorite shot however is my friends. We can't find any shots similar, it is his own special shot, no one can stop it. This kid is amazing.
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i put the snake as my fav but ever shot is really good to know and do well since it is always good to keep them guessing
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My best shot is my pulll when my arm is healthy. I have been shooting pullkicks in tournament lately because of my arm and the ease at which they go in on many people... especially those new to the game, less than 15 years! ;)
I shot a monkey for a while with reasonable success. But became bored with it. I shoot the monkey on those old foosers who can block a pullkick. They seem to have touble with the spin shot.
And to start a flame war... I think the monkey (snake, roll over, whatever) should be banned
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i personally LOVE to shoot push....here in montreal..its revolutionizing our game....
and i forget who posted..
but yeah its to ur advantage to know more than one chot...but its impossible to master more than 2 IMO...i'd RATHER have one guaranteed shot...and a solid backup shot..than have 4 or 5 mediocre shots...u need a shot thats guaranteed...u shouldn't need to make the defender guess waht ur gonna shoot....u should beat them with them knowing what shot ur shooting..my 2 cents
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Milking the Cow, a fun shot to see the pros use. 8)
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[The Push shot is great. I like it more than the others. Also it is easy to do and can be hard to stop.
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u got taht right alberto!!
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My favorite by far is the snake, only for the simple fact i can do all angles and all sides of the hole so there is no blocking what so ever, unless you move around ALOT because I can get all the holes ill just wait for you to mess up. Now I know the snake is good but sometimes it is boring and people against me get frustrated so I switch it up, because if I beat my opponents they will not keep playing me so I have to switch it up, but now when I play against pros then thats a whole different story, because if you beat them then they only want to play more, but yet the only way I beat a pro is mostly by luck because they're are some good ones down here in Cedar Falls. yet my second favorite shot has to be the push kick, or the aerial shot because when i saw kjas do it then I was hooked and practice whenever I can. ( yet I fail to get it every time )
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The pull is just a popular as the push??? I think we need more votes.
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My favorite shot is back pin. THe reason is quick and no body can stop it.
Push kick is my back-up ,but not working everytime.
Never see snake ,I watch video carefully ,but see no difference between front pin.
Anyone can tell me?
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My favorite shot is back pin. THe reason is quick and no body can stop it.
Push kick is my back-up ,but not working everytime.
Never see snake ,I watch video carefully ,but see no difference between front pin.
Anyone can tell me?
Yeah.
The snake is also called the rollover--the reason is that the man lifts off the top of the ball, goes almost 360 degrees around, and then hits the ball in. It is shot with the wrist on the handle (rather than with the hand).
Some people who shoot the front-pin have a rollover option for the straight, but when it's moved the shot involves bringing the man around behind the ball and then hitting it forward. The snake involves bringing the man up, around, and hitting the ball.
Essentially, those 3 shots are the only ones that have been really competitive at a high level on the Tornado for the past 10+ years. The other shots have far too many limitations to be serious tournament-level shots. The keys to a good tournament shot:
1. It must be unraceable--it has to be fast enough that people can't chase it down.
2. It must be unreadable--you have to have all of your options look identical until the last second, so the opponent can't tell where you're shooting.
3. It has to have enough options to open up the goal.
4. It has to be consistent and at easy enough on the arm so that you can shoot for 3-4 days in a row effectively.
There's another minor key, as well:
a) it has to be easy to learn. If it's a lot harder to learn, you're taking away practice time that could be spent working on improving your passing or other parts of the game.
So, what do the top players in the world shoot?
Here's one answer, for Tornado tables. The answer on Bonzini would be different (e.g. it's easier to square off the push-side of the front-pin on that table, and the pull is harder to execute, and the front-pin series that you set up on the far side of the goal and only shoot pull-side options is a viable series):
Just under 50% of the Pro-Master players on Tornado use the Snake as their primary shot. And about 45% of them use the Pull as their primary shot.
Taken together, those shots account for 92% of the pro-masters. They satisfy rules 1-4 and (a) for the most part--the pull is probably tougher on the arm, and slightly harder to learn, but for a lot of shooters has more options. For some people it's easier to learn, and some snake shooters have a lot of options to work with. The snake is currently the closest to the "ideal" tournament shot, but the pull is pretty close and so people who don't want to or can't shoot the snake tend to go with the pull.
There are also a few front-pin shooters, including Frederico (top player in the world). The front-pin satisfies 1-4, but it violates (a)--it's very hard to learn. A lot of people can learn to shoot the pull side effectively, the straight, and a push side that is either angled out (spray, so it can't get around a reverse defense) or slow enough to be somewhat raceable. Getting to the point where the push side is quick, square, and long (and looks like the other options) is really hard, though. But, if you put in the time it can be as effective as the pull/snake (at least if you're a Belgian whose initials are FC).
There are still a handful of push-kick and pull-kick shooters left over from the TS tour, but no pro-master under 35 years old uses either of those (and even many of the old-time guys like Jeep have switched to using a snake shot). Frank Balecha is the closest thing to a new top-level player who shoots it (he shot a push-kick at Vegas last year and got 3rd place), but I think he scrapped it in favor of a snake--at least I saw him shoot a snake this year at Vegas. Because you're involving 2 men in the shot, the timing is very delicate and it's almost impossible to shoot it consistently over the course of the weekend. It also tends to be very hard on the elbow and shoulder, and even the best are generally somewhat raceable (with a handful of exceptions through the decades). They do tend to have a ton of options to work with.
The only pro-master in recent years to shoot a push was Maggie Strong, but she's retired. The push is really hard for most people to square off, which limits your options. I mean _really_ hard. Most people cannot hit a square short push (just around a man covering the straight and then either in straight or cutting back) and many can't hit a square long (they usually have a very fast spray long). There are a handful of people out there (Frank Goff, Kevin Munroe) who can shoot the heck out of it. But I'd say it tends to violate 3 and (a).
The back-pin has basically the same options as the front-pin, except that it's impossible to shoot a straight without rocking off the ball first. So it has all the advantages and limitations of the front-pin, except it inherently violates #2 and there's no good way to prevent that. It is a bit easier to square off than a front-pin. Regardless, it's so easy to block compared to other shots that not only have there been no Pro-Master players who shot it in recent memory, but no pros or even good semipros. It's a lot of fun to shoot and people mess around with it, but it's nearly impossible to shoot at a high tournament level.
What do I shoot? Primarily a pull in tournament play. My favorite in funsy games is a back-pin, and from time to time I'll mess around with all of the above.
What should you shoot? Whatever gets the ball in the goal. Even if other people have trouble shooting a push-kick, you might have a really nice one--if so, keep using it. But if you're trying to develop a tournament caliber shot, it's worth looking at what has worked for other people before.
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My favorite and best shot is the pull shot. I can effectively shoot it with the middle or far man. My friends have a very hard time stopping it and i still havent mastered all the options that can be used the pull shot.
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Is the push shot the same as the pull shot except that you push the ball away from you and shoot (all with the middleman)? If so, why is this such a terrible shot (according to this website)? It doesnt seem any different than the pull shot. Could someone explain this please as well as why it is so easy to block. Thanks.
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Is the push shot the same as the pull shot except that you push the ball away from you and shoot (all with the middleman)? If so, why is this such a terrible shot (according to this website)? It doesnt seem any different than the pull shot. Could someone explain this please as well as why it is so easy to block. Thanks.
I'll give it a go. I'll start off by saying that:
1. The push is not a horrible shot per se, there are a few out there (Frank Goff, Maggie Strong, Kevin Munroe) that shoot it effectively. But it does seem to be really hard for most people to shoot effectively on top goalies.
2. Of the top 200 players in the world, about 45% of them shoot a pull; none of them shoot a push. Personally, unless I had a pretty good affinity for one shot, I'd lean toward something that's proven to be effective for players at the top level--but if you're smoking your push, by all means stick with it.
Most push shooters can shoot the straight, and they can shoot a very fast spray long (move the ball about to the big dot or slightly past, then it angles out to the far corner). And they can hit a little slice angle without moving the ball (so if the opponent is blocking straight with the goalie and long with the 2-rod they can angle between them).
I might even venture to say that for most people, when they're first learning it's easier to whack that nice hard, spray long push than a similar pull shot. (the spray long is the one that you shoot near the big dot or a little further, and it angles out to the far side from there).
So a lot of people start off thinking "man, the push is easier for me, I'm going to shoot that instead of the pull and be unique--goalies aren't as used to blocking it, I'll tear them up!"
But:
1. It's very difficult to square off the push. If you push the defending 2-bar all the way around you, can you shoot around the near man into the goal? There's only a handful of people in the world who can do that consistently. Whereas the deadbar pull (pull the 2-rod toward you and shoot around the far man) is a standard part of the arsenal for even semipro-level players. More important, it's hard to square off on the very short options (set the 2-rod with its corner blocking the straight, set the 3-rod so there's a hole that's exactly a ball width and no more, and try to hit it--good pull shooters can tuck back into this consistently, but push shooters tend to have trouble doing it fast without telegraphing)
A lot of reasons have been suggested for why it's harder to square off; essentially it comes down to what's natural for most people. To square the pull shot, you need to pull the rod hard toward yourself and then push it away during the shot. To square a push shot you need to do the reverse. And that is a really tough motion for a lot of people.
In fact, the reason that shooting a good pull is more comfortable might be the same reason that the rookie "spray push" is easy to learn: when you're hitting the ball hard, you have a tendency to snap the rod away from you (you're pushing it during the stroke). This translates into a recoil for the pull that squares the ball off, whereas for the push it translates into a pronounced spray. It's not impossible to get a good recoil on your push, but for a lot of people it's not natural, easy, or comfortable.
2. It's easy to telegraph. Especially because a lot of push shooters shoot some options open-handed and some closed-handed (notably the slice angle shot is almost always closed-handed). This is really weird, since there's no good reason not to use the same technique on all your options--you never see people shooting an open-handed long pull and a closed-handed straight. Even without that obvious tell, a lot of push shooters telegraph their straight vs. long decisions badly.
3. It's harder to read the long holes vs. the pull; this is offset by it being easier to read the short holes. But some people postulate that reading the longs is more important for some reason.
Anyway, I'm not sure that I buy (2) and (3) for good shooters--it's just that a lot of push shooters are kind of spray-and-pray bar hacks who haven't worked on developing all 4 holes.
But I do think there's something to (1)--very few people can really execute all the square options, even a 1- or 2-finger off of dead square long, and the tuck short shot. Even fewer can do them all at reasonable speed.
But if you feel comfortable shooting this shot, go ahead and do it. There are some people out there who can do it. Beware that by comfortable, I mean that you're really able to square off a reasonably long push (say, set the 2-bar almost against the wall, leaving the width of your thumb between the bumper and the wall, then shoot around the far man) at your "fast" speed, and you can square the short, and you shoot all the options the same way (closed vs. open-handed).
Because as I said, a lot of people are comfortable in the sense of "man, I can whack the spray long really hard and fast, and hit the straight and a little angle cut, and with those options I can tear up the local bar-hacks!". But you really need some square options to score a good percentage on tour, and being comfortable with those options is what sets Frank Goff, etc apart from the majority of people who don't ever raise the push to a high level.
And as I said, unless I were really sure I had a natural aptitude for the shot, I'd go with the pull or roller if I were trying to develop a tournament-quality shot.
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bump
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my favorite shot is the toe. push or pull. ive also been working on my monkey. with that, a pull is more effective for me at this time. but when my push monkey works, its a beautiful sight.
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MIDDLE-SET FRONT PIN Series :o
Push, pull, push-cut back, pull cut-back
Accuracy over quickness :-*
Alan
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Snake shoot pull and push :)
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Like a lot of fooser, I start to play foosball at school. It surely wasn't my best choice. For now, my favorite shot is a pull kick, but I'm now doing a very good snake ( push and pull) and a good back and front pin shot. These 4 shots are making the others foosers crazy and there's not a lot of them that't want to play with me. Why? They just have no fun. For the last 2 months have been playing agains the same guys and they start to save me, it surely piss me off, but i'm always able to win because I am able to mix all those 4 shots. I think that you cant win game with only one shot because they will know where you'll put it, that's why a now master 4 shots. It's not important the shot you prefer, what's important it's how many time your able to score with it.
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I think that you cant win game with only one shot because they will know where you'll put it, that's why a now master 4 shots.
That's a normal attitude against other new players, but it's not the best idea if you want to get really good at scoring. The thing you're running into now is players who have no idea how to block a certain shot--say, a pull-kick or a back-pin or whatever. So you learn an okay back-pin, and okay front-pin, etc and you never get to the top level with any one shot. Then when you play someone you try to figure out what they can't block and shoot it, and then mix it up when they start blocking it because they're slow at recognizing when you switched to a different shot and have to re-figure out how to block it.
The problem comes in when you start playing good tournament goalies. They've seen all those shots before, and they have good defenses against all of them--so unless you are very good at executing a shot with a lot of different options, you're not going to score a whole lot. And because your shots have different setups (Front-pin is pinned in front of the ball, push-kick starts from the near side of the table, etc) it's very obvious to them when you change shots.
At the high levels of the game, you're going to be a lot better off learning 1 or 2 shots well. Instead of learning 4 new shots, learn 4 new options on your existing shot. For instance, with a pull, concentrate on getting:
1. A spray long
2. A normal fast straight
3. A short split (2-hole sprays to 3-hole)
4. A square long
5. A square split (2-hole square)
6. A sqare 4-hole
7. A ball-roll straight (roll 1/2 ball width, brush back to the straight)
8. A lift-fake straight
etc. Honestly, if you can just do 1-5 on that list and know how to read a defense then you will be able to score a very high percentage of your possessions.
Focus on making all of those options look the same so that your opponent can't tell which one you're going to shoot before you do it. Work on mixing up your timing so you're shooting at different times--waiting 5-10 seconds after the setup, or shooting immediately after the setup, or even shooting a rolling pull during the setup.
Then, if you are shooting spray longs and getting blocked, you can switch to another option. And your opponent won't realize that you've switched until they hear the ball hit the back of the goal.
Then if you are going to learn new shots, learn ones that can be at least partially disguised--say, learn a push-kick that starts off looking like you're setting up the pull. Or set up the pull, and start a pull but go into a push-kick immediately back to the far hole.
Then the next step is learning to read the defense effectively and use all those options.
But really, having one primary shot and an emergency backup shot is going to be a much better strategy in the long run than trying to master tons of shots from the start. There's a good reason the top pros shoot one shot almost exclusively for the course of the tournament.
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When playing around, I'm a sucker for the tic-tac series, mainly because it's fun to do and fun to watch.
When playing competitively, I like the Pull and the Front-Toe.
I've only been playing for about a year-and-a-half now, so I can only do a couple trick shots, like a basic airial, but my favorite ones to do are these other shots I do. I don't know what the names are, but if anyone knows the names, please let me know. For now, me and my friends have called them "The Full-Court Kick", "The Fake-Mistake", and the "Leap Frog".
The Full-Court Kick.
1. Start by setting up a basic Airial, but catching with the middle man on the goalie bar and one of the two-bar men.
2. Instead of tapping it onto the back of the two-rod guy, tap it onto the front of the goalie man (For me, this is the hardest part, because the front of the Tornado man).
3. As soon as you do that, drop the ball down, and as it bounces up, pop it in the air and towards the goal with your goalie.
When its done in a fast and fluid motion, it looks really cool!
The Fake-Mistake
I think this shot is hilarious. I did it on accident, but now I do it intentionally, and it's funny to do, and even funnier when it works.
1. Set up for a normal airal shot, so that the ball is on the back of a two-bar man.
2. Line it up so that you have a relatively straight shot for the goal (some people I play lift all the guys to try and block an airial in the air with the toes pointing up, so the whole table is clear!)
3. Angle your guy so that it's as far down as possible without having the ball fall off the back. Try not to look obvious, though.
4. Instead of flicking it in the air, perform a snake shot. As you come around, the ball drops on the table in almost perfect position to get hammered by a snake shot that goes zooming along the surface, while all the other player are in the air.
The Fake-Mistake is even funnier if you had just shot an arial, just to add even more irony.
The Leap Frog
This is whitout a doubt the most impressive thing I have ever done, and I know that if I do it on camera, I would post it on every site imaginable. I've only gotten it to work four times, and of those times, it scored ONCE. Luckily, there were a couple witnesses, otherwise nobody would believe me. I still practice it, and I hope one day I can do this consistently.
1. Set up for a normal airial, with the ball on the back of a two-rod man.
2. Line up one of the five-bar men with the two-bar man with the ball, and have the man's body perpendicular to the playing surface.
3. Now for the fun part. Flick the ball into the air with your left hand, and aim for a little bit passed the back toe of your lined-up 5-bar man. With your right hand, time it just right so that when you flick the 5-bar, it strikes the ball a second time into the air towards the goal.
4. If you are the Ultimate Foosball God, or if you are damn lucky (like I was), the shot will score. And if it does, you, and everyone watching, will crap your pants, change your clothes, and rejoice afterwards.
So those are my favorite shots. Again, if anybody knows the real names of these shots, let me (and the rest of us) know. If not, then maybe we could stick with these names...
~Mick~
FOOS ON!!!
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I love shooting the snake shot and now and than i like to chuck in a pull kick palm role.
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The Leap Frog
This is whitout a doubt the most impressive thing I have ever done
Unfortunately it's an illegal pass as well. If you could do it to the 3-rod then it'd be okay.
Passing rules from the goalie area (goalie or 2-rod) are the same as from 5-rod to 3-rod (except the 2-wall rule, and from 2-to-5 the rules are elminated if the ball hits the opponents' rod).
If the ball stops, or if it touches the front or back of one of your men, you have to touch 2 men before advancing it.
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Is it Rule 21.4 or 21.4a that makes the Leap Frog illegal? From what I am reading, 21.4 refers to 21.1, but 21.1 only mentions a pinned ball, not a stopped ball.
Also, it seems that 21.4a refers to 21.2a , but 21.2a only mentions if the ball is caught by the next rod, not struck.
Please, by all means, correct me if I am wrong.
Thanks
Mick
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Is it Rule 21.4 or 21.4a that makes the Leap Frog illegal? From what I am reading, 21.4 refers to 21.1, but 21.1 only mentions a pinned ball, not a stopped ball.
Also, it seems that 21.4a refers to 21.2a , but 21.2a only mentions if the ball is caught by the next rod, not struck.
21.4 applies 21.1 (including subsections) to 2- to 5-bar passing. This includes all of 21.1 (21.1, 21.1a, 21.1b).
21.1a and b prevent passing a ball that has been adjusted or stopped (adjusted = touched by front or back of a man).
21.2b gives the definition of a pass, which includes a ball that is quick-shot.
FWIW, I'm a certified ref. I can absolutely guarantee you that if you tried an adjustment pass from the 2-bar to the 5-bar on tour, it'd be ruled illegal (even if you quick-shot instead of catching the ball) whether it happened above or below the rod.
The rules are also heavily dependent on precedent (much like the law or the rules in, say, the NBA--travelling, for instance). So it can be difficult to get a good grasp for what the actual rules are just from reading the book. Which really sucks, and I've lobbied for a while to get a set of official interpretations published, but it's the current state of the world. Just as one instance, although 21.4a only mentions 2- to 5-bar passing, the same rule applies to goalie-rod to 5-rod passing. That's not written anywhere, but it's the official ruling. In general, if you don't have access to official rulings you should be more interested in following the intent of the rules than the slavish written word if the two are obviously in conflict.
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5 bar to 3 rod one timer....speed kills, ladies ps...cornbread is nice too
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Wow I though the rollover would beat out all by a long shot.
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Only 3 votes out of 717 members I guess I need better polls.
I think it's a good poll. Our first in the new poll section. ;)
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This is the most voted on poll!!!
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i'm not that advanced of a player but my favorite shot is the masse/ curve shot.. my other favorite is the push
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We need to see votes like this on more polls.
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I shoot a push...I hear alot of people say to stop and work on something else. I'm not sure I agree. I watched Tony shoot about 6 deadbar pushes in a row in St. Louis.(just warming up) people say its too hard to square?? My long is pretty square..I can go deadbar sometimes....1 out of 10 or so. I have a variety of about 5 pushes...seems to work pretty well. I can hit a rollover pretty good. It seems my percentage is better with the push right now...
Any one have any input?? Is the push a dead end road?
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#1 poll and #2 Viewed post.
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What about Johnny Lott and the Helicopter Shot?
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say what was the Helicopter shot anyway, how was it done
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What about Johnny Lott and the "Helicopter" shot?
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One time Johnny Lott was playing a money match in Chicago. A Toournament Soccer event in November, 1978. A good size crowd gathered to watch as Johnny took on a European team. Johnny was dribbling the ball from front to back pins using both men from the two row at goalie. He would roll over the long way (helicopter) and stub the ball loudly enough to make his opponents flinch and then fire at goal. The ball control he exhibited that day from front to back pins was astonishing. The opponents were determined to one up Johnny Lott one time before they lost. The forward heeled up the ball in a front pin, helicoptered the man all the way around to stub loudly as Lott had been doing. Johnny reacted to the thump by giving a wide open middle. The forward crushed a straight in ....
with his FOOT. Johnny smiled as the crowd went wild. I heard later it was for $500 and Lott won.
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Mine would have to be the snake. :) I'd like to learn the pull shot, but I have a lot of trouble racing the ball and straightening it out.
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To answer why a pull is so high and a snake is lower than you thought look at the list of favorite shots to block.
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Its my first time posting here so i wanted to tell you a little about me. Im a pro under USTSA and i live in Toronto Canada. I have been playing tornado since 2004, before that i played on glass tops. I started on glass tops. playing a style that is called fastball. the rules are as follows you can not touch the ball more than once on any rod. I no longer play that style competitive as i once did because no one really plays it anymore. It use to be crazy competitive i went to Italy to play and got 2nd with Paolo Zeperi in that event. Its still a great way to sharpen your hand eye.
As for what shot you should pick to start out. You can take different strategies for this. The way i did it was I started out shooting a pushkick, than a pull kick, than i shot a snake, shot a front pin, and now im starting with the pull shot. The way i look at it know i would recomend everyone should start out with a pull shot cause its ideal in the goal position. Thats were all rookies start out. You should be very diciplined find a shot that you want to perfect as best as possible and only do that, i know it might feel that its not very fun but if you want to be the best than your going to have to put your time and effort in one shot. It gets confusing when you start out trying One of every shot. When you dont have the proper mechanics it messes you up more to constantly switch your shot.
If you want to get good fast forget about winning. you should never think about winning. Think about what you can possible do to get better. Stick with a shot and keep moving your hand around keep trying new things till you here a bang. Once you hear that bang try and remember what you did. It should feel natural. So you have to find your natural stroke it will come.
Its hard to explain over the computer how to shoot a pull but i will give it a shot
1 Take a step back with your right foot (its easier on the rist)
2 The back hand should be quite straight with the top of your forarm
3 Hold the handle like a tennis racket
4 You should have the handle running throught the middle of your hand so your palm by your thumb is touching the handle and kind of sitting on it.
5 Your follow threw is very important, your recoil is natural dont think about it when you find your sweet spot the ball will squeeze out. You should focus on where you want to end up hitting the ball.
The way i started learning the grip was to put the ball in the squeeze position as far back as possible without stubbing it and keep shooting. Try to find different mechanics till you hit the one. Once you hit the one keep hitting it till it starts feeling really natural. Than set the ball up on the dot and start shooting.
Trust me it will help you more if you shoot the ball on a standstill in the middle of the table. Set up like you are shooting a pull shot put the ball in the middle in the squeezed position and keep on nailing it. Learn to shoot the middle first than slowly move towards deadbar.
Mario Ariganello
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the backpin that is soooo fast it can hardly be blocked on either side as well as middle... lol
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I happen to shoot a backpin different than anyone has seen so I've been told. This is because I have perfected it hours a day. I am able to shoot it dead bar on both sides and able to shoot it in the middle as well.I can do a lightning pull kick from it and brush in a middle. It really is a shot that I have never seen anyone do before.I am still getting it so I can wait a little longer so it is more effective. which it is. I probably score on a 80% average. Most people think I should not shoot it until they actually see me shoot it!!! I however shoot many other shot as well except the rollover , but none of them are as good as my backpin so I stay with that most often :)
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Wow almost 20,000 views this poll needs a bump.
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The eclipse (aerial without getting the ball up on the men) is my favorite trick shot--tough to do on Tornado but I know one guy who can. You basically knock the ball off the side strip, then when it pops up off the wall you hit the bottom of the ball with the man. low-percentage but amazing. Garlando players shoot it a lot more.
Tough to do on Tornado? That's very strange to read, because the two "wingers" on the Goalkeeper rod make it really easy to get the ball up there. I teach most beginners who are interested to set the ball on either wall, the "winger" & 2bar flush against the side, and hit it up after setting it just behind the goal rod. Pretty easy.. then when they get used to it, they don't even need to be by the wall, no need for a walltrap as a guide.
I would have thought doing it with a single goal player was harder, with the goalkeeper on either end being used. It was easy to cheat on the old TS browntops by slinging it backwards behind the goalplayer, and up the back wall, which on a TS was high enough to allow the ball to fall forward, compared to a Tornado wall, where invariably the ball goes on top of the back wall and rolls off.
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Just 10 more votes to break a 100
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Mine would have to be the snake. :) I'd like to learn the pull shot, but I have a lot of trouble racing the ball and straightening it out.
Which is the reason 99.9% of new foosball players are shooting the snake, rollover, monkey, wrist rocket........whatever. Look, that horse is out of the barn and its not going back in. But I have to say I agree with t loffredo on this one. I think the shot has watered down the game. So easy to learn and win with, anybody can do it. I'm not saying its easy to master, just easier to learn than other shots. Just my 2 cents. I'm just getting back to the game after a 14 year lay off and I am a pull shooter. It took me years back in the late 80's and early 90's to gain a real command of that shot. When I was out of the game for all of those years I would day dream about shooting the shot. I would visualize hammering the shot from memory in big tournament points. I get a real adrenaline rush from crushing fast, long, deadmans. When I decided that daydreaming about it wasn't cutting it and bought a table earlier this year I was somewhat disheartened when I realized that I wasn't going to be shooting the pull like I did back in the 90's. However, after 5 months of practice, doing pull sessions every other day I am happy to report my adrenaline rushes are back. The shot is maybe just a hair slower laterally but just as hard to the hole. And I am crushing the dead long consistently. My shoulder and wrist can't take the pounding like when I was in my early 30's but I can shoot 50-100 hard pull shots a night and still play the next day. Day 3 is a real bitch though. I haven't taken it to a tournament yet but I'm getting close. Listen, I didn't start this post to regurgitate the history of my pull shot but what the hell. And oh by the way. This is for the "If you can't beat em' join em' category. I also started shooting a rollover because of A) its popularity B) its success in tournaments and C) I need a consistent backup to the pull for future tournament play that won't wear out my wrist/shoulder. I can shoot the push side long and pull side long but consistency is still an issue. Dam. Typing all of that was like therapy.
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I don't get all this... I look at killshot selection the same way as baseball pitching looks at pitch selection, which I've always regarded as the closest in higher speed ballcontrol and release principles to foosball 3bar shooting, and the more solid options you have, the better and more dominant you are as a shooting forward. And obviously more consistent, too, because there are more weapons to choose against varying D's.
Sure, everyone will have and should have one favorite shot, but not an absolute one. If a player has never encountered a goalkeeper or two or two hundred, who just happen to have a D that is so wall-like against that player's main shot, then that player has either never really played good competition, or is just extremely lucky. If I remember the mid-90s when Tommy and Rob were dominating, besides switching up whether they were doing well in one position or the other... just to keep the opponents on their toes, they also alternated between pulls and rollovers, even within the same game. I'm not aware, but has anyone else quintupled in one Worlds like Tommy did?
If one hasn't developed or found the correct technique for say, a hard fast long pullshot, from asking a pro or asking on line or watching vids, then keep looking, because many people have been doing that shot in literally DOZENS of workable styles, FOR DECADES. Correct technique means correct drills and correct practice, not YEARS of practice (YEARS or PRACTICE = LATER YEARS of OSTEOPATHIC AND NERVE INJURIES). If one doesn't have a physical impairment that makes it difficult to open one's mind to trying out several techniques and mastering a good pull or rollover or pullkick or push within WEEKS, then it's OBVIOUSLY A MENTAL IMPAIRMENT. I keep seeing this in 20 year "forever" rookies who keep trying to reinvent the wheel, not using their means of finding out how to do it right, which gives me a ton of satisfaction when I train beginners to lambast their idiot world after a couple months work. Although sometimes it's just a personal thing, because I've seen beginners and rookies languish forever in their local BYP/DYP's, simply refusing to learn from even local Semipros or higher players. But then they go to their first superregional or intrastate, or perhaps even a tour event, and they easily absorb the correct technique from the friends and partners they make there. Go figure. The other man's grass is always higher in THC?
But just like in pitching baseball at the major league level, a respected, viable, even feared pitcher has to have one or more options to his favorite killshot. Sure, he might have a devastating nasty slider or split-finger fastball, but he should also have a workable breaking or offspeed pitch, and perhaps a decent curveball or knuckleball. Continued practice to also master these alternate pitches is what makes a dominant pitcher. Which comes to my point, IT IS JUST AS VALID TO USE AN ALTERNATE SHOT or PITCH to hit that GOAL or STRIKEZONE, if that alternate shot is less familiar or less well defended by the goalkeeper or batter.
And baseball teams that have pitchers with multiple "money" pitches also logically have more hitters that can handle more good pitches, because of the access to their own pitching staff's and coaches' philosophies and strategies. Same way with foosball shooting. Makes it a lot easier to defend a shot you might not actually use a lot, but it's still easier to defend a shot you yourself have practiced and scored with in the past. Nothing like doing a shot to get to know what makes a shooter uncomfortable or know what any shooter would be looking for with that same shot.
So I'd recommend a beginner/rookie to practice to get a killshot, sure... but also to make sure it is a correct technique that can be practiced and relatively mastered for their level within a few months. NOT YEARS. This would then leave more time to practice and make effective other killshots. Why burn the energy and concentration on forcing one's rollover or pullshot only, when an alternative (I MEAN A PRACTICED, GOOD ALTERNATIVE) can blow out the current goalkeeper with the minimum stress? Even only on 4th or 5th points? Then the player can worry about the maximum deadliness of of his/her main killshot at the next game.
I'd recommend warming up one's main or fave killshot, then also warm up one or more alternatives. Too many times have I seen where a shot percentage is lowered by good goal D, but the forward keeps insisting on figuring out the D, often with variations on the same kill shot that had never been practiced. Then it turns into a grinding defensive style attrition game, where the more dominant 5bar simply gets more shots and wins. SOUND WAY TOO FAMILIAR? A high scoring percentage can affect the opponents with pressure to score, much less pass, as much, if not more, than a game with both goal defenders dominating.
I'd just say: know your weapons as well as the enemy's, BUT bring as much of yours as you can. You'll have less to worry about .. And I like that the rollover has come about, because it does allow a higher percentage first killshot to be learned much more quickly (NOT MASTERED, MIND YOU!) , AND ALLOWING BEGINNERS AND ROOKIES TO ALLOCATE MORE TIME TO DEVELOPING THEIR 5bar PASSING and DEFENSE. I agree with many that it's probably saved both informal and organized foosball in the domestic US, the same way lowering the pitcher's mound in baseball increased scoring and made defense (pitching) much harder. The snake took over, because it was much easier and faster to learn to a useable level, but it hasn't eliminated or obsoleted the older shots. It just needed time for defenders to adjust and develop the D. And I believe Rico and other frontpin shooters have re=awakened interest in pinned shots, including the many backpins that used to be around. So all these doomNgloom predictions are a bunch of crap. And it still goes back to the 5bar, where lefties like myself have always known that the TRUE heart of foosball lies... IN THE TRENCHES BAYBEEEEE!!!!
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I suppose my favorite shot is the pull kick. It just feels right for me. Depending on the defense, I'll switch around to other shots, but for the most part -- pull kick.
I'm reasonably new to the game, but I've been playing long enough to know that the rollover is not my shot.
I've been playing recreationally for the past few years, and I think I'm not bad -- I haven't played in any tournaments (for now), but outside of that, I win more than I lose. My point is, I've heard a lot about different shots, and I wonder -- why isn't more said about the tic tac? That's generally my second choice down from the pull kick. It does wonders for confusing opposing defenses, and goes in about 80% of the time. So why is it so widely ignored?
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I suppose my favorite shot is the pull kick. It just feels right for me. Depending on the defense, I'll switch around to other shots, but for the most part -- pull kick.
That's great bwrist,
While you're well on the way to perfecting your pullkick, which is as righteous as any undertaking, especially with the dinks and mixed tic tac quicksets and outright powerkicks of that shot. But also, perhaps you can also keep switching around to the other shots, hopefully picking up little hints and techniques from good shooters along the way.... until you have one or two more shots that feel "right." You never know when they'll come in handy.
I've met goalkeepers that seem to defend at decent percentages against your basic good pulls and rollovers, but completely brick a pullkick. Or vicey - versey - versa. Wouldn't you think it's nice to hedge your bets against getting knocked out in an early round at a local or bigger event, just cause you happened to go up against that goalkeeper. Murphy's foos law.
:o
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That's a great point. I mean, of course I don't just use the pullkick -- I just usually use that first, and if the goalie can't stop it, I fall into using it the whole game. If they can, I switch around. But I'll work in other shots.
But the tic tac -- what's the deal there? Why does it get such little attention?
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That's a great point. I mean, of course I don't just use the pullkick -- I just usually use that first, and if the goalie can't stop it, I fall into using it the whole game. If they can, I switch around. But I'll work in other shots.
But the tic tac -- what's the deal there? Why does it get such little attention?
By tic tac, I'm assuming that you mean using a tic tac offense as a 3bar scoring shot, and not the whole slew of 5bar tic tac series very well accepted, at least in North America and Tornado regions, where the flat player figure feet and higher frequency of a solid straightening tic or tac (due to the lower, longer feet) make it a staple alternative. Having clarified that, the tic tac as a 3bar offense is probably widely practiced as a pickup game or barnstorming (showing off) or desperation shot (getting bricked otherwise). But with respect to tour play, where one has to invest real time and real money and real vacation days into events, even at the lower levels, it's quite a percentage game. No different than shots on the tennis or golf tours. It's quite extreme discipline, too, as one goes up the skill levels. You only use the shots to maximize the reliability that you'll be able to execute the shot each time you call it up.
Any one-figure front or backpin like a Euro or rollover, and any pull or push shot from a standing set (even when done as a rolling pull or push) logically offer the most reliable control and the highest possibility of as close to a perfect execution as possible. Set pullkicks and set pushkicks are only slightly less reliable, due to variations in ball grip or roundness as well as weight, or table surface conditions, due to dirt or lubricant or broken off chips or pieces from the player figures or bushings. Tic tacs and bumpkick versions of the pull and pushkicks have even less reliability. Depending and changing due to each different ball, the flatness of the 3bar player figures' feet and the rolling conditions of the 3bar rod.
Another reason why many foosers decry the loss of variety and inventiveness of top forwards at the expert and higher events. Would be nice to have in higher events, and not just when games are runaway blowouts, but only those who actually decided on using tic tacs and other high execution error risk, meaning they practice them as killshots, would bother to use them in a big money or title event. For desperation after getting bricked, or as a way to shake up the D, or a way to shake up one's own offense, they are still used, but only sparingly. More so in singles than doubles. See Billy's and Rob Atha's quickset bump pullkicks when the goalkeeper is not ready - but I believe they practice those to use every once in a while or whenever it's an easy point. But not when a money shot is needed, with the D there very present.
So I'd say it's just logical percentage play. K.I.S.S. Less fancy stuff, not those shots that always seems to go wrong at the right moment. Single player shots like rollovers, set pushes and pulls will always be more reliable than any combo shots(those that use two or more player figures), as with pullkicks, pushkicks, bumpkicks, and tic tacs, even from a set or stopped start. So-called combination shooters always have to worry about how individually round and grippy and bouncy each different ball is, plus whether it's worth the extra effort and concentration to get or synch into a rhythm, like when one REALLY NEEDS A POINT. Plus common shots have the advantage that more people you can watch, or even ask, use them, making it easier to learn from those who execute it correctly and from more different players and styles.
Plus I'm sure all foosers who ever played on tour will have played hundreds, perhaps thousands more, pickup games and less important games in their lifetime, so they can save the fancy and more complex shots for those games, anyway. And besides, do you see pro bowlers switch from their normal strike throw to a fancier cranked shot, or even use their other arm perhaps, on tour? Even switch-hitters in baseball won't use the side they're weaker on (against a particular pitcher, I mean) to hit with, against a left or right-handed pitcher they're going up against, just to show how good they are. And very few tennis players will switch from a right-handed forearm hold to a left handed forearm grip at the pro or tour level, unless they're in desperation mode. Why should foos tour players be any different or less professional?
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Indeed. Thanks, that's really helpful. :)
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How about a subconcious cutback, by accident? Just a thought... Oly
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Yea 100 votes lets see how long it takes to get 200
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I voted pull kick and push kick as my favourite shot since I use it as well.