Foosball.com Forums
Chat Area => General Chat => Topic started by: FabMan on July 11, 2016, 10:50:04 AM
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NoOb here, a friend of mine is a recreational foosball player and has commissioned me to build him a table from scratch. This table will be built form steel and have an industrial look when completed.
Based on the information from my internet searches, I determined that the Tornado 3000 tournament table is a decent competitive table? I have ordered all the components I could find that are Tornado replacement or upgrade parts and will be starting the build soon. There are going to be some custom touches (custom machined players), but I want to make the table play like a Tornado when completed.
I'm hoping I can get some input from all of you on the forum since you are avid players, etc. I had my days in the 80's, hahaha.
Anyway, I anticipate I'll be posting often in this thread asking questions on dimensions, materials, quality of components, etc. I appreciate all of your feedback, (smart azz responses are acceptable as well).
Any suggestions or recommendations are welcome anytime!
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Ok, first question: Anybody know what is the measurement from the bottom of the player toe to the top of the field?
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This might this help you....
... "ROD: 3 1/8" up from playing surface O.C."
Per...
... http://www.foosball.com/tablebuildingguide.html
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Thanks Jim, I also found this;
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n290/1hackman/dim9_zpsdpltdakl.jpg)
It looks like a Tornado drawing since it has a 9/16" rod. That would make clearance of 3/8" I guess?
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It looks like a Tornado drawing since it has a 9/16" rod. That would make clearance of 3/8" I guess?
Tornado coin-op rods are 5/8".
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Everything I've seen for the Tornado Tournament 3000 tables specifies 9/16" hollow rods?
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Everything I've seen for the Tornado Tournament 3000 tables specifies 9/16" hollow rods?
Interesting. Can you post one of the links that shows that specification? This seems to come up frequently.
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I purchased my build parts through Thompsons, and the rep I spoke to told me that all Tornado's have 9/16" hollow rods. She mentioned there is, or was, a difference in length between commercial and consumer tables.
Heck, I don't know, I've seen parts advertised as OEM Tornado with 5/8" holes for the men and handles.
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Everything I've seen for the Tornado Tournament 3000 tables specifies 9/16" hollow rods?
Interesting. Can you post one of the links that shows that specification? This seems to come up frequently.
Found this on a parts site;
"Tornado foosball tables use special and unique parts. These tables use 9/16" rods that require the use of original Tornado bearings, men, bumpers and other replacement parts to work correctly."
http://www.foosballtablesdirect.com/tornado-foosball-parts-accessories.html
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Thanks for the info, that must be where people get the 9/16" number.
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Anybody know the exact rod centers on a Tornado T-3000? I've seen anywhere from 6" to 5.875"
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Anybody know the exact rod centers on a Tornado T-3000? I've seen anywhere from 6" to 5.875"
Like to help you out but my table is a T-2000. i suspect the dimensions are the same as the T-3000 but I'm not certain.
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Well, based upon the actual Tornado field size of 47 1/16" and 27 1/16" and 9/16" rods, it comes out to 5.875 rod centers. Not much room for error. Since we're fabricating the men, I think I'll go with the 6" centers to give me a little leeway.
My field came in and it's 47 1/2" x 28" x 3/8". I glued it to some 5/8" MDF and used cauls, clamps and weights to keep it level. I clamped it to my welding table which is very flat.
Think I'm going to add 1/2" to the length by adding 3/16" angle at the edges and I'll cut down the width to 26 9/16 - 27".
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/5Oh3wg.jpg)
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Looks like a very cool project, thanks for posting photos and keep us updated.
What brand of rods did you decide to go with?
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Thanks! I'll update pics as I go.
He decided to go with the 9/16" hollow Tornado rods and the split, thin walled bearings.
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Just out of curiosity, have you received the 9/16" rods yet? I'm still baffled by the 5/8 vs 9/16 issue. My coin-op has 5/8, and the modern t-3000 men fit perfectly. If the tornado rods are really 9/16, it seems the 1/16" difference would translate into loose men and other issues. Very strange.
(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o780/kgstewar/IMG_2713_zpscg1o73df.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/kgstewar/media/IMG_2713_zpscg1o73df.jpg.html)
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haha, Yup, you're right, just measured them, same dimension, .625. But they are advertised as 9/16" rod and the split bearings fit fine, WTH?
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haha, Yup, you're right, just measured them, same dimension, .625. But they are advertised as 9/16" rod and the split bearings fit fine, WTH?
The internet contains erroneous info? Oh no... :)
I suspect the bearings have a little more leeway in their fit than the men would. You definitely would have discovered the problem when you were trying to slide a man with a 9/16" hole onto a 5/8" rod!
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On your table, would you mind measuring the bottom of the player foot, when in the vertical position, to the top of table?
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Sure, I'll do it tonight when I get home.
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0.214" give or take 0.001" :)
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Thanks!
Well, change of plans, I took apart the clamps, etc. and discovered a slight tear in the play field surface, crap.
Not impressed with the play surface material or masonite / MDF backer anyway. Too difficult to keep level long term.
Going with 3/8" aluminum plate as the base surface, wrapped with a custom printed vinyl play field. Aluminum plate will be perfectly flat and will not deflect. The wrap will be slightly textured and durable.
Back up, re-evaluate, move ahead! haha
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Project update. Got my plate aluminum, and of course it had a 3/8" dead center bow in it. Crap, had to drill and tap a 1/4" x 20 in the center and use it pull down on the plate to make it flat. I then decided to make a "free floating" play field which will be independent of the play field frame. This will allow the owner to easily adjust the height and level of the table, replace the wrap or field without being limited to a permanently attached field.
Anyway a few pics;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/u51Uwj.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/trHuiX.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/17SqFW.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/iNqAZJ.jpg)
protoype player drawing;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/NYHCJr.jpg)
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Looks like it's going to be pretty amazing table.
Will you be powder coating or paint in the table?
Any updates?
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Thanks!
At this point, customer is asking for a chemical faux patina finish like FX or sculpt nouveau products. So, I have to get all the mill scale off the steel for the chemical to affect the steel evenly, etc. I've already acid cleaned some parts but not the main channel steel yet.
I should get the play field channel back from the water jet cutter tomorrow and I'll mock up the table, rods, etc. to make sure dimensions and cuts were correct. Had to have 1 1/4" spacers cut to hold the rod bearings since the bearings are 1 1/2" wide and the web of the channel is only 1/4". Had them cut 3" diameter to look like hex nuts. Took 4 hours on the water jet cutter to cut 16) 1 1/4" thick spacers, ouch. Have to weld them on eventually.
Prototype player is still work in progress. Last cut had the player at 55 grams without the counterbalance head (nut). They may end up a little heavier than regulation players.
Anyway, will post up some pics this weekend, should get a lot done I hope.
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Thanks!
At this point, customer is asking for a chemical faux patina finish like FX or sculpt nouveau products. So, I have to get all the mill scale off the steel for the chemical to affect the steel evenly, etc. I've already acid cleaned some parts but not the main channe
It's going to look amazing. I looked up the chemicals/finish you'll be using, this will make the table really unique. Do you use clearcoat afterwards?
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Thanks, I hope it turns out the way I visualize it. There are a few things I'd do differently but the owner has the final say. Yes, I'll probably spray a light matte finish lacquer over the frames when completed.
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Picked up the play field frame channel from the water jet cutter yesterday;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/bUdMwE.jpg)
Spacer "nut" for the rod bearings. Will be welded to the web of the channel to get the 1 1/2" bearing length needed. I will chamfer the corners and sand before welding to the channel.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/KhdUEt.jpg)
Prototype player without "nut" counterbalance head;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/ziidyA.jpg)
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Very cool, thanks for the pictures. Fun to see this coming along.
Question: How much will each man weigh when finished? Being made of steel, I can imagine that the five-bar when fully populated will be pretty heavy. Are you concerned that the weight of the men will require a lot of torque from the player's wrist to execute quick shots and passes?
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Or maybe they are aluminum, in which case weight is a non-issue.
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The prototype and players will be aluminum, slightly heavier than the 63.8 grams that the Tornado players are. Trying to make these aluminum players as close to tournament size and weight as possible. However, customer requests are stretching the limits. If they want tournament style play, they're going to have to replace these aluminum players with the standard Tornado T3000 players. Form over function on the aluminum player design.
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Fabman: When you are milling those men, what are the chances you could mill a few more that I could simply buy and display? They look really interesting. If so, how much per man, I could load your PayPal account.
Just thought I'd ask.
-p
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I'll see what I can do, may have a few protos left over. Was planning on making a bottle opener out of one for the owner. I'm having these cut by water jet machine, no milling actually.
Do you want a completed player? Will probably have some type of nut for a head TIG welded or threaded on for the counterbalance. And some light polishing, nothing shiny. Anyway, these little buggers are pricey, I'm too scared to even say on line, haha.
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I'll take a man with the nut (counter balance) or not. They just look interesting and would be a nice addition. How much are we talking per man? I'd like to get 4 but, price will dictate the number of men.
-p
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PM sent
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A little progress over the weekend. Got the table mocked up and checked player clearances, etc.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/NmYFZ1.jpg)
fabricated both score racks;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/32Mel1.jpg)
Got both ball drops cut, welded, filled;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/5yYt15.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/gAr1xG.jpg)
Played around with some chemicals;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/Et85jH.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/b1pzIl.jpg)
Started on the goals, work in progress.
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I think "jarring" calls will be significantly reduced on this behemoth.....cool project
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Thanks!, haha, the top will weigh 160 lbs when done, the bottom frame will weigh about the same, add about 60 lbs for the legs and rods. Should gross out around 400 lbs. when done.
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Players often say Tornado tables are built like a tank... However this one now owns that analogy...
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Spent 2 days of my long Holiday weekend trying to configure a properly working goal and ball return. The first goal I fabbed up with the wire mesh actually kicked the ball back out on the table on corner shots. Not deep enough or wide enough. I had to lengthen the goal and set it back another inch. This is what it is now. Need to find a clean way to attach the wire mesh next.
I'll eventually shorten the reducer cup and attache an elbow or pipe for the ball return. Not sure if it's going to pass through the end cap and behind the channel and exit the front, or go to the corner and wrap around. Owner's call for later I guess.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/si1W8E.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/QRv74O.jpg)
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Such a cool table! Can't wait to see the end result.
D.
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Took off on a little vacation, got back and worked on mocking up one goal and return.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/WQJq7D.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/y91bjo.jpg)
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Coming along nicely! I like the look of the copper. One thought: When copper is in contact with steel, the steel can corrode (galvanic corrosion). This famously happened to the Statue of Liberty when people noticed that the iron frame had rusted out where it was in contact with the copper skin. Maybe the reaction is slow enough that it won't be a concern for your project.
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Making some headway. Got the return mocked up for one end. Need to finish the 2nd goal this weekend and get both goals acid dipped and bolted in.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/MZoKeH.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/tT0TmI.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/KWsEv7.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/JD8b0c.jpg)
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Men are cut;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/cjgQqW.jpg)
Upper and lower frames matched up,
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/w2TKNx.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/YWAWCn.jpg)
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Awesome, absolutely awesome! Have you estimated the final weight?
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Thanks!
Project about 380 lbs gross weight with the legs and cross rod.
The upper frame is removable and will only have the rods, players and goals attached when removing.
The lower frame will support the play field, goal returns and leg cross member brackets.
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A little more work this weekend. Got the final prototype counterbalance player mocked up. Needs polished.
Also mocked up the ball return for each end and sample tested the chemical patina for the frame.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/OwRhDT.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/CF7JGN.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/1tVo3p.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/naTlCU.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/3NaPT0.jpg)
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Cutting out some players with the water jet;
https://youtu.be/9Z0ourIFOVM
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Legs fabricated, need to strip the mill scale, drill and patina;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/2v7Pls.jpg)
Players tapped and tumbled. Need to add heads and pin;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/aDEfuj.jpg)
Handles stained and sealed;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/BNygAj.jpg)
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A little more progress;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/nbYlx0.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/dj2Bxo.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/XpwEKp.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/924/Wn8HaT.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/wFJ4mP.jpg)
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I see I'm not the only one who uses hockey pucks off the ice! Looking good, enjoy seeing the progress!
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haha. I don't even know why I have those pucks.
Thanks, progress finally. getting down to details now.
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I made a rebound bar out of hockey pucks with attached bumper pool bumpers to practice catching odd angle rebounds within my 3 bar. I set it up against the entire goal wall and blast shots from the 5 bar (3 bar up until the shot clears).
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Can anyone provide me the Tornado T-3000 play field line location dimensions that are on the T-3000 play field?
Thanks in advance!
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Got a little more work done;
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/gIvTZt.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/CADPTP.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/qo2ysK.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/lUsHLO.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/921/7AMJlv.jpg)
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Making some progress. test fit the counterbalance nut heads on the players. Installed bearings and rods and aligned and drilled roll pin holes.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/8u7E4C.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/84wVWw.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/xssQQY.jpg)
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Table and components are being prepped for shipment and is scheduled to be shipped, installed and completed 1/18-23 if the weather holds up.
Will update if all goes well!
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Very cool! Thanks for all of the pics and updates. How does it play?
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Well, we've never had it completely together to test. We're going to find out at the customer's home when it's done. Going to be interesting. He has a few friends that are serious foosballers. I know the action will be a little slower due to the weight of the men. And hopefully, won't need ear plugs! haha
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Finally, table vinyl wrapped and ready to ship.
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/922/TL4WpI.jpg)
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...hopefully, won't need ear plugs! haha
Ear plugs mandatory with a good mix of heavy metal I suspect! :-)
Great looking table, thanks for sharing the project!
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Well, it's finally done. I must thank all of you here in the forum that helped me and inspired me to move forward.
Project is done, delivered to the customer, (now a friend) in Breckenridge CO.
Table went together perfectly and the game play is awesome according to some of the guys that showed up to play it.
Not as loud as you think, about the same as a normal table according to the players. They like the sound of the ball circling the goal cup though, haha.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/432x506q90/r/923/jiCikZ.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/994x663q90/r/923/gi6p1G.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/442x663q90/r/923/S5yhzg.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/730x663q90/r/921/trCnW5.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/994x663q90/r/921/dJjYrj.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/880x663q90/r/923/NtcHFU.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/994x663q90/r/924/yxQDTO.jpg)
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1006x663q90/r/923/QW9Bez.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/541x663q90/r/921/1IYwg0.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/994x663q90/r/921/8OSdfy.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/883x663q90/r/923/TvSeTG.jpg)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/651x663q90/r/924/pgmTtK.jpg)
(http://[https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/883x663q90/r/921/bm583f.jpg/img]
[img]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/860x663q90/r/922/W5CXur.jpg)
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(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/860x663q90/r/922/W5CXur.jpg)
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That is pretty sick!
D.
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Someone stole your design:
(https://media.restorationhardware.com/is/image/rhis/prod3980078_E15468954_DTL?$l-pd1$&wid=646)
(https://media.restorationhardware.com/is/image/rhis/prod3980078_E15468954_TQ?$l-pd1$&wid=646)
https://www.restorationhardware.com/catalog/product/product.jsp?productId=prod3980078&categoryId=search
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;D
Actually I knocked off their design a bit. My friend, also customer, liked that particular table. He originally sent me a picture of that same table or one similar. :-X
He asked me to build him one like it if I could. He liked the wood sides and the custom players. I told him I don't fabricate anything in wood, only metal and convinced him I could design a table and men similar to that, but I would use tournament rods, bearings, dimensions and specs. If you look at that wooden sided table, it uses springs on the rods and the goals are actually inside the playing field.
My original design was to use small, custom cut gears for the score racks, and for the player counterbalance heads and larger gears for the rod bearings. But, he wanted the "nut" theme.
The only thing non-tournament about the table I built is the weight of the aluminum players. If my customer wants to have a full tournament table, he'd have to remove the aluminum players and replace with the T-3000 plastic ones.
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Oh makes sense ;)
For a second I thought some furniture company was spying on this forum to steal ideas for foosball tables to sell at a luxury price point!
Both tables are very nice, how does the it play though?
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Thanks for the heads up, when I first received your message I thought what fool would want to duplicate my steel table? Lot's of work.
When we installed it, the customer invited a few of his friends who play foosball regularly and have their own tables to play on it. We played it for a couple days on and off. They were impressed and didn't notice any lack of playability compared to the tables they play on. I expected it to play a little slower because of the player weight, but they didn't seem to notice or complain at all.
The customer, and his friends and family play on it regularly and love it, no complaints so far. Heck of a long way for a warranty call, lol, wait, what warranty? lol
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Thought I posted the final YouTube slideshow, maybe not;
https://youtu.be/uvB51HsdAu4
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I like all the beer consumed!
I would love video of it being played. No castors on it? Seems REALLY heavy to move.
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That beer can collection was one afternoon. For the overall build, with help, I probably went through 10 cases of beer. Six or seven bottles of bourbon and about 40 cigars, lolol, expensive build!
I have a video or two of it being played somewhere.
No casters, leveling feet on the bottom of the legs. if they want it moved nearby, takes a few hands and re-level. If they want to move it up stairs, need to take it apart and split it.
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looks awesome and you should totally post the gameplay video! (http://bestfoosballtables101.com)
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I'll get some video when I go back for the one year warranty follow up..lol.
I spoke to the owner and he's been playing the crap out of it. Said the rods have really loosened up in the bearing guides since the installation.
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Any update on this? I want to see this table in action! :D