Topic: Pullkick

[Steve]

Can this shot win tournaments if you can shoot all the dinks with it, I am trying to establish a shot with some speed .

[bbtuna]

Chris Dube is the only Pro Master I have heard of in the last 20 years who has used the PK and won at the highest level...if you watch Chris shoot, there is no doubt it can win but it is obviously very very hard on many levels for many reasons but it can be done

with that said, you are swimming up stream by selecting that series...

maybe the new Warrior (assuming all goes according to plan) will provide better opportunities for kickers (push and pull) - very rare breed these days at any level but especially top 100 players and non-existent in the top 10 for 20 years

As a matter of fact, I don't think a push/pull kick has won an Open Doubles major in over 30 years

Jeep (Push Kick) won several major Open Singles titles - 1 in 88 and 2 in 91 and I don't think Chris ever won a Major Open Doubles title with his Pull Kick

you can look at their stats below...I could easily be missing someone but even if I am, the story is the same...rare, very rare...what are the reasons?  you can probably guess and others can jump in and give some of them

Chris Dube
http://foosworld.com/public/main/playerProfile.aspx?id=AE5FE8F677B94EF6ACCDF0BE3703AC19

Greg (Jeep) PERRIE
http://foosworld.com/public/main/playerProfile.aspx?id=DF2969EF28104A399B5B1EA3ADF8E12D

[TSR_Brad]

Jeep (Push Kick) won several major Open Singles titles - 1 in 88 and 2 in 91 and I don't think Chris ever won a Major Open Doubles title with his Pull Kick

From "The Foosball Player Gallery" right here at Foosball.com...

"Although unseeded, nothing could stop this Kansas City foosball machine. No one (except themselves) expected this productive pair of Show-Me State foosers to win this major 1994 event [U.S.Open] in Minnesota. Dube's Lighting Dull-kick and aggressive overall play along with steady and intelligent goal tending of rising-star Srock produced an unpredictable Open victory"

And don't forget about Thor Donovan!

[papafoos]

In regards to Merv Srock:

...1994...rising star...

Funny how a well established player on the local scene (or even regional) can be regarded as a rising star.

Merv was a longtime partner with Steve Swearingen (Murray) back when Steve was busting out.  I just don't think he traveled much, and rarely played forward.

But back to the topic:

If you're going to shoot the pullkick, you HAVE to hit all the dinks.  You also need to shoot at different speeds.  You can't just blow and go, which is why a lot of the old players dislike the snake.  Ever seen a snake shooter try a slow dink? (on purpose)

[bbtuna]

sorry, let me revise, 1 Open Doubles major in the last 30 years or no Open Doubles or Singles Major winner shooting a pushkick or pullkick in 14 years and only 4 or 5 in the last 30 (and 3 of those have been in Singles by one person)

I am not against the kicks, I love them, I love foosball when it is deverse...my point is to say that they are nearly in the category with Push shots and Backpins - and remember, I shoot a backpin as my primary shot so I ain't doggin anyone

there are reasons why US is 95% Roller/Pull and Euro is 85% front Toe...why?

I have an opinion but not time to write it and there are others on here who can tell you whats what

[Steve]

I have seen a lot pull kicks off of other shots like front & back pins only as a quick shot.

[bbtuna]

yea, that is mainly pick up and bar ball not pro master tournament play and you want a shot you can count on in pressure play...

of course, it is fun to be able to crack off a variety of things whenever it suits you but at the heart of things you want to be able rely on a consistent proven shot that works well on your primary table

[redterror]

I think the problem with push/pull kicks is that, as a good goalie, it is so easy to race them, making them almost useless shots.

[foosinaround69]

The real problem is that you cannot consistantly hit the holes that you need to hit cause of the inconsistance of that shot alone. You can't pull/push the ball to the same spot every single time without angeling the ball somewhere you did not mean to. Where with other shots you can be pretty consistant with placing the ball where you want. I used to shoot a screaming pullkick,(used it to beat Clint Gandy @ a major years ago) and even though I couldn't be raced(most of the time) I couldn't hit the holes all the time. I would pull it too fast one time and whiff it or I would spray it into the wall or something.

[FoosFanatic]

The real problem is that you cannot consistantly hit the holes that you need to hit cause of the inconsistance of that shot alone. You can't pull/push the ball to the same spot every single time without angeling the ball somewhere you did not mean to. Where with other shots you can be pretty consistant with placing the ball where you want. I used to shoot a screaming pullkick,(used it to beat Clint Gandy @ a major years ago) and even though I couldn't be raced(most of the time) I couldn't hit the holes all the time. I would pull it too fast one time and whiff it or I would spray it into the wall or something.


I agree, but I do believe that you can get consistant with it. Every now and again I can hit a mean pull-kick(rarely) on my table where I can shoot a borderline deadbar pullkick without much effort or thought. I pull it at a great speed, the ball travels straight over and when I "swing/pinch" it cuts back just a hair. Sometimes the ball just hits the right place and I feel it, I think you can understand. I hit a great speed, and now on a regular day, I have an unbelievably hard time getting it to that place, but I also relatively new to foosball. I played in a league where I was shutting down a guys snake, and he switched to a pull kick and ate me up. He does it open-handed and its incredibly fast. He cant do it deadbar(openhanded anyway)but he gets it way out there. He changed his speed often, I could race him deep normaly, but he would catch me jumping deadbar with my 2 man and gaurding the dink with my goalie, and would just nail it between. He's one of the top players in my area, but is no pro. I would think so some practice you could be competitive...but I don't think you could hold your ground against a roll-over or a pull-shot.