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Motivation for passing rules

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Motivation for passing rules
« on: October 15, 2009, 08:26:23 AM »
Hi,

I'm curious as to why the rules for passing are so specific? Noteably, no passing from a immobile/pinned ball, and the limit on amount of times it is allowedto hit a side wall?

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Motivation for passing rules
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2009, 07:09:40 PM »
Hi,
I'm curious as to why the rules for passing are so specific? Noteably, no passing from a immobile/pinned ball, and the limit on amount of times it is allowedto hit a side wall?

Obviously, as in golf or FIFA soccer, or any other sport with a following, especially internationally, the more specific the rules are, the EASIER it is to ref, and just as easy to have official organized contests with "honesty" rules when there are few or no referees or officials available.  Most arguments and incidents happen where both contenders contend totally different views of an infraction, which is where an automatic ruling, ie "yes or no", can be easily declared by an official, leaving more time and concentration for "judgement" calls.

I would say the rules for the passing restrictions (for one area to the other only: goal&2bar to the 5bar, 5bar to the 3bar) prevent simple passes that are virtually unstoppable, although they DID NOT INCORPORATE ANY REAL SKILL, just a loophole in the structure of the table and rods.  As early professional foosball started in the heyday of "wildcat" big-money tournaments, organizers found certain actions like the one-area pass from the 5bar to the 3bar were virtually unstoppable, despite whatever skill the defender had.  There is no such restriction on passing from the goal&2bar area to the 3bar, with the added length allowing more time for defenders to get a fair shot at stopping the pass.

Most established sports and games rules have rulings that came about after certain players determined how to use certain actions to get an undue and unfair advantage.  Many major national and international ruling bodies have even adjusted the rules to increase offensive effectiveness, increase defensive percentages, or even just to speed up or slow down the game.

Perhaps defensive science & techniques have adjusted to the point where the one-area pass rule becomes obsolete, but that doesn't seem to be the case, yet.  Just the "initiative" edge of any skilled passer over a skilled defender seems to keep the defenses hopping enough.  That's not to say that a new table or table update might not change that around.  Yes, the rules are often arbitrarily changed, BUT THAT'S NORMAL IN ANY ORGANIC, LIVING ORGANIZATION OF HUMANS COMPETING AGAINST EACH OTHER.  There would always be change.

I have no problem in competition rules requiring more skill to execute a one-area pass, but I also have no problems ignoring the rule being broken by weaker or learning players during pickups at a venue or bar, for fun.   Accepting the present reality in playing competitively, I have no problems in playing "scrub" rules, because my having to learn and upgrade my skill on passing within the rules brought me to a much better place against any and ALL opponents.

Taking FIFA soccer's ruling on an indirect free kick, that rule is just as arbitrary, but most players don't even think about it.  They learn to execute the pass to the right teammate's position, which requires an additional element of skill and preparation, which IS AS IT SHOULD BE IN A GAME OR TOURNEY SHOWCASING THE BEST PLAYERS WITH THE BEST SKILLS IN THE WORLD, NOT TO MENTION THE BILLIONS BEING SPENT AND GAMBLED ON IT.  Many of the automatic or "yes or no" rules in organized competitive sports and games like in World-class or professional golf or tennis, have definitely evolved and CONTINUE TO EVOLVE through experience, but they normally just add structure to the sport or game, requiring and encouraging more skill to execute certain actions. 

Your question is like, WHY DO I HAVE TO WEAR A RAINCOAT OR BRING AN UMBRELLA WHEN I GO OUT IN THE RAIN?  You don't really have to, and it normally wouldn't kill you.  But if you expect the majority of people to go out with you for a walk in the rain, then that's just your PERSONAL PROBLEM.  If you disagree with the game being forfeited, for ex, in 8ball, if you pocket the 8ball accidentally before its turn, then that's fine, but that's just the way it's been played and how the rule has evolved for generations.  Why does one foul just going one millimeter over the foul line in bowling?  Who cares? It's the rule, and it's easy enough to learn how to deal with it.

You want your own planet (or your own dimension of reality) and its sports and games and rulings, just go get yourself one!  It's easy!

Re: Motivation for passing rules
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2009, 04:36:59 AM »
So, Basically, you can do an unstoppable pass by either angling left right? i.e. a hover brush from a standing ball... ok.  Don't see why it's made that much harder by having the ball moving slowly but I guess that's the way it is...

ps i think you misunderstood, I'm not saying 'god damn why these rules' etc etc I just dont see why passing from a stationary ball would make the pass unstoppable....
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 04:38:31 AM by raithza »

Offline PatRyan

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Re: Motivation for passing rules
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2009, 09:39:08 AM »
The stationary ball doesn't make the pass unstoppable.  But it does make 5-bar passing VERY HIGH PERCENTAGE. 

This is so becuase if you set the ball about 2.5 inches(6-7 cm) from the wall, and just hover-brushpass, there is only one man that can stop you, and because the ball is stopped, you can place it in the best position for your pass to be effective.  You give yourself 3+ options, and the defender has only one man with which to block you. 

With a moving pass, there is a skill/art invlved with keeping the ball moving, while at the same time reading the defense AND trying to get the ball into the best spot to execute your pass....and executing. 

The rule really creates a battle of the minds (and execution) between the 5-man bars, similar to that of the forward shooting 3-man bar shots on the goalie.  The rule is needed because when the forward is shooting in the goalie, the goalie has 2 men he can place in front of the goal.  This is not the case on the 5-man, and thus rules are needed to, level the playing field, more or less.

Does that make sense?


Offline foozkillah

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Re: Motivation for passing rules
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2009, 06:50:21 PM »
So, Basically, you can do an unstoppable pass by either angling left right? i.e. a hover brush from a standing ball... ok.  Don't see why it's made that much harder by having the ball moving slowly but I guess that's the way it is...

ps i think you misunderstood, I'm not saying 'god damn why these rules' etc etc I just dont see why passing from a stationary ball would make the pass unstoppable....

Thanks for clarifying, raithza...

And note that even though that rule's been in for decades, which I agree with, as well as Pat's description and breakdown of the percentage play of the one-figure stopped pass from a stopped ball to the 3bar from the 5 near the wall, they might just as easily adjust it to change the percentages between offensive and defensive 5bars.  But currently, one HAS to have enough skill to make a moving pass to the 3bar.

I also remember that at the highest level, as in the days of what are now legendary pro-masters in the 70's, which I had the fortune to observe, that very high percentage could be taken to an extreme, almost ridiculous level, above 90%.  Which is exactly why the tour associations and organizations promoting professional foosball at the highest levels incorporated the rule to prevent simple forward shootouts at the 3bar alternating between opponents at each serve.  Being a natural lefty, I completely side with that rule, which has made passing and pass defense a high art, making sure the best players at the top levels HAVE to HAVE excellent lefthand control of their 5bar.

I would have to say that the same reasoning is behind the limit to a 3rd bounce off the wall by the 5bar before it has to be sent forward or backward, out of the 5bar's area of control.  Otherwise, lefthand motorcontrol-challenged players can just do what ice hockey players often do, which is to throw the puck forward and hope that their side can maintain possession in the scramble while the puck is rattling around on the back wall.  Professional hockey has its own adjustments with its icing penalty, discouraging simple continuous clears to the opposite end as a desperation move to kick the puck out of danger from in their goalside area, except during penalty periods.  Going back to foosball, almost any player with hardly any leftie control or skill can dribble the ball of the wall (as a lot of foosball goalkeepers do, but they contend with more risk in their area) and stick, spray or slam the ball forward, hoping to catch or snag the ball in the ensuing scramble, but this time AT THE OPPONENTS END.  The 3bounce limit ensures at least passable skill to advance the ball, not just dribbling and hacking it forward.