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Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna

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Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna
« on: January 28, 2010, 04:18:26 AM »
I posted on Portland Craigslist looking for a Tornado. Snake eyes(Kent) worked with me to find the correct table for our needs. We purchased a 2007 T-2000 grey marble. Snake also turned me on to this site for parts and this forum for advice. He even called me after I bought the table to give me some more pointers on table maintenance and play. No one half way across the country would ever do this for any other sport I know.

Also, a quick thanks to bbtuna for all the table advice here.

This is a great forum.

Offline snake eyes

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Re: Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2010, 08:10:17 AM »
Hey Paul great to see you here. Hows that coin-op doing ya? You get your 5-hour tumbled balls yet? I suspect your already working on your rollover...I will help a fellow fooser out anytime. Good advice in here, view some of the video's and get a feel for the 5-bar.


Snake

Re: Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2010, 10:20:35 AM »
Practicing and learning like crazy. Even though I like watching the snake shot (youtube) and trying it, I am working more my spray shots, push and pull. Also, zekefooser released another video on stationary stick bar passing and combination's thereof. I get my order from foosball.com tomorrow and can't wait to try the 5hr tumbles.

Thanks again for all your help

Offline bbtuna

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Re: Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 12:02:09 PM »
Paul,

get your practice and foosball life started off the right way...build good habits that will give you the biggest and best impacts short and long term

1. Practice ball control more than anything else...many reasons, see Practice, Repetition is the more of genius for much more detail
2. Start every day's practice with at least 20 minutes of 5 man control practice...in the end, five man wins games more often than any other rod
3. Pick a pull or a rollover and stick with it...tick tack stuff is fun and maybe easier in some ways in the beginning but it is MUCH less effective...nice as options where you throw one in maybe 1 out of every 10 to 20 shots.  It takes a very long time to teach your body the strokes needed to be really sucessful and to face enough different defenses with that shot to know how to adjust and what to do under certain circumstances.  Out of the Top 100 US tournament players there is maybe 1 player who shoots something other than a Pull or a Rollover (Chris Dube shoots a pull kick and this is a leftover from many years ago when the table was different than today) but no great player has ever used a tick tac shooting style as their primary (or secondary for that matter) shot in competition.  There is much more that could be said about this but for now, trust us on this stuff.
4.  Learn now, the game is not primarily a game of speed, it is a game of strategy and nerve.  It is natural to be wowed by the speed and see the game as a man to man sort of race offense verses defense.  Now speed is good and certainly can't hurt but speed can be nuetralized through strategy and nerve.

It is easiest to see it from a defenders point of view to start with but it can infor your offensive approach too.  As a defender most people jump when the shooter shoots but right now in the beginning you want to fight this natural reaction.  It is your job as a defender to get into the shooters head and make them have to think and worry if possible about where and when your men will be in one place or another.  If you can accomplish this, you are already winning the battle because once the other player begins to think about anything other than what he wants, their stroke, timing, and choices are impacted.

You want to see the goal in the beginning as 3 parts evenly divided.  Your 2 men can be in 2 out of those 3 holes when the person begins to shoot.  Even if you get scored on a lot in the beginning, practice being where YOU want to be when the shooter starts and make yourself mentally tough and not move when they go to shoot.  I don't mean stand dead still the hole time.  I mean move your men in and out of those 3 positions in as random and irregular a fashion as possible so that you are where you want to be when the shot begins (and ends).  This is VERY VERY hard to do, even for the most experienced players.  This is what I mean by "nerve".  What I mean by "strategy" is the random movement of your men and your plan to get into the shooters head.

Last thing I will say about this.  Study the people you play and when building your "strategy" start with understanding what shot/hole the person favors.  For the pull shooter on all but the lowest levels and a rare exception here or there, the favored shot is the Long hole (you know what this means right?).  With the rollover it is either the long pull side of the long push side and a small % of people may favor straight but I'm talking even then of maybe 5%.  Higher than a pull shooter favoring the straight but still a small %.

Usually these people will shoot that hole 80% or higher of the time.  With this in mind, as a defender you want to ensure you take this hole away and make them shoot other options which they will not be as comfortable with or as good at shooting.  They will try early to make you think otherwise to stop you from taking the long away but you have to stick with the plan playing the odds.  So, even though you are going to move your men randomly, and this means spending different amounts of time with your 2 goalie men in one of the 3 parts of the goal I mentioned earlier - you want to spend more time in the hole you want to take away than you spend out of it.

Offensviely the reverse of all this is true.  You need to devleop your long stroke to build the rest of your shot around because if you are not a threat long, the goalie can make the goal smaller in defending it.  BUT you want to develop the many other options as well and not be afraid to shoot them at any time.  I summarize this idea with this saying "Favor No Hole" ...yes, yes, its suggestive too, ha, ha...but get the simple truth of this...it is very hard to do even for the best players in the world. 

Start with a solid foundation and your game will progress faster and it will bring you more pleasure because of it.

okay, there is tons more but there are my two cents at the beginning.

charles

Re: Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 12:30:50 AM »
BBtuna,

Thanks so much for the advice and very informative post. To be honest, I had to read through twice (I printed out too). As per your advice, I have slowed things down, focusing on ball control, practicing a lot (20' on 5 man), developing some nerve on "D", and having a ton of fun. Who says a 44 year old guy can't learn some new tricks. Thanks for the table advice also. Your post about merkel rods and the differences in Grey Marbles not only made my decision easier, but it helped me point out a couple things and get a better deal. Knowledge is king in negotiations.

You guys are great and as I pick up more, I will share and pay it back in this forum.

Oh, one quick item. My table had a couple of small nicks on the play field. I went down to Ace Hardware and bought green and white acrylic, matched, and filled in with a tiny brush and scraped with a blade when wet. It came out really good and almost unnoticeable. It took a while experimenting with the correct mixture, but it turns out the kind of acrylic I bought dries the same color as when wet. :)

Take Care,

Paul (bmxracer4)

Offline snake eyes

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Re: Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 09:45:30 AM »
Hey Paul-Practice weaving the ball between all your 5-men. Get a rhythem going and execute a stick wall or lane pass far or near wall. When 5-Bar to 3-Bar offensive passing make sure your catching man on your 3-Bar is tilted forward enough to take the initial impact and not bounce backwards behind your 5-Bar. The lighter the grip on the 3-Bar handle the more likely you are to catch the pass. It's alot of muscle memory and your body will teach itself to be in specific spots. Tuna is right repetition and ball control wins matches.  I highly recommend viewing youtube: Foosball Practice for Worlds 2009 Passes, Shots and Hacks by Ryan Knapton. Very good warm up vid. I get to our DYP about an hour early and practice some of his passing series.

Snake

Re: Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 10:44:42 AM »
Hey Paul, you said you are from Portland. Portland, OR? If so have you tried playing at The Home Turf Bar in Tigard or Little Italy's in Cornelius? Little Italy's is a great place to get into the game as they handicap you and all ages can play(it's a pizza joint). Those kids are brutal though,,, ;D

Re: Thanks to Snake Eyes and BBtuna
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 06:47:06 PM »
Thanks snake,

I am working on the 5-man to 3-man and back like crazy. I used your tip the other day about angling my men @45 deg. to absorb the stick passes. Excellent advice again.

Old Meister,

Thanks, Yes, Portland, OR. We actually live in Cornelius and we plan on going down to Little Italy tomorrow night. I hear they have pretty good pizza too. If you are in the Great NW, pm me and we can play.

Thanks Again Guys,

BMXRACER4