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Terry Moore, best of all time?

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Offline bbtuna

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Terry Moore, best of all time?
« on: February 02, 2009, 11:19:06 AM »
I think Terry doesn't get near the credit he should for how good he is at all aspects of the game

yea, he was the person who pioneered the roller in competition (not the first technically but lets be real, he is the one who brought the rollover into the game as a standard forward shot)...you would think that in itself would give him tons of cred but it doesn’t

people want to argue about who invented it and if John Smith was the first to use it in competition meanwhile overlooking, in my opinion, the significance of what Terry did with it and what impact his use of it, his success with it, has done to the game…totally changing American foosball and it is now slowly spreading into Europe

Terry needs to be credited for being THE Leading Pioneer of the shot, proving it could be more than a gimmick or pocket point used on occasion

Also, Terry has in my opinion maybe the best offensive 5 of all time and his name should be mention with Spear each time the discussion comes up

I have watched hundreds of hours of major level video and I can't think of one forward who passes such a high percentage against everyone he faces every single time...its really amazing...I have only seen once or twice where it looked like a defense was getting the better of him and that didn't last long

defensive 5 is certainly as good as there is out there

his 2 bar...you know it doesn't have the speed or flash of Billy's or the variety and power Todd's does but in singles he has torn up the best players for more years now than anyone can count - certainly one of the top five best 2 bars in singles of all time and definitely one of the top 2 or 3 playing today

and then there is his defense...any of the top players today will tell you, and I can see this in all the video I have watched, that he has a top top defense...certainly one of the top 2 against the rollover and the top 5 easy on every other shot

I think if you break down his game, area by area, he is one of the top 5 (most in top 1-3) in every phase of the game...the thing is that his entire game is understated and although he is as tough a competitor as I have seen and I have seen him get upset before and speak his mind but, over all he is a quiet plodding competitor and I think this and the fact his game is not flashy, makes it so he doesn't get the run he deserves

you talk about best players all time, his name should be mentioned much more prominently then it is normally – I am guilty of it too but it just sort of came to me while I was reading his recent response of the roller on another board - I have read and heard him before and he always sounds a bit defensive and I realized that is because he is still fighting for recognition for his place in all these discussions

Forward, one of the top all time
The Rollover - other invented it, he brought the roller to the masses and the impact of the roller on the game can not be overstated – it would be one of just a few most impacting changes of all time and Terry is the one that made it a standard part of foosball and it is still changing the game today
On top of that, Terry certainly has one of the best rollers of all time

Goalie, great and I think there is more to come as he gets older
One of the best defensive goalies of all time
One of the best two bars of all time

Singles, again, one of the best of all time
One of the best two bars
One of the best zone defenses ever in singles…I don’t know better and this is another element of his game which I think is over looked and under appreciated…I mean, he didn’t invent the zone but like the rollover, I think he needs to be credited for bringing it to the masses

5 bar, I am listing this separate from the forward because I think this is the strongest part of his game…it isn’t that people don’t give him credit but they don’t talk about his 5 much when discussions come up about best of all time and I have never seen a 5 in person or on tape that is better and certainly few if any as consistent…I don’t know if he has the “best” of all time, because that distinction is impossible to nail down especially since attempts/completion stats aren’t kept but I am guessing if they were, he would be at or very near the top…simply amazing, smooth, varied, and super smart

I have learned a ton watching his 5 bar and if anyone ever took the time to make the connections, you would see a lot of Terry in my 5 and I think that if people thought about, many many others could say the same

anyway, just thought I would take a minute and recognize one of the games greatest players of all time…thanks Terry for all you have brought to the sport and all it has meant to so many…you are da man…good luck in the days ahead, I hope you get new energy and reassert yourself, either way, I know your career isn’t complete yet, but even if you stopped today, you would have to be considered with the best that have ever played…

bbt, out


Re: Terry Moore, best of all time?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 05:03:28 AM »
What does the most competent authority in the field have to say about this matter?

Interview
Name: Frederico Collignon
Home: Belgium
World Rank: 3th
Belgium Rank: 1st
Position: Forward
Main Shot: Front Pin


MP. How did you get started playing foosball?

FC. My father played foosball and we had a foosball table at home, plus I loved to watch competition and I went to tournament
with my father and mother (she played also). It's like this I started playing foosball.

MP. How old were you when you played in your first tournament?

FC. I think my first tournament was in 1987-1988 but I really start playing in competition and tournament in 1991-92.

MP. How popular is foosball in Europe compared with the United States?

FC. It's popular just like in US maybe more. They are a lot different kind of tables, rules and much players have a different
style of playing, only in Belgium they are minimum 3000 players so you can imagine in all Europe, so Foosball is quiet popular
in Europe. You also have little tournaments nearly every week but not so much big tournament because they are so many different
kinds of tables.

MP. On how many different types of foosball tables have you won a tournament?

FC. I will say 10 (Löwen soccer, Bonzini, Garlando, René Pierre,
Black diamond, Jupiter, Stakanit, Soccer 2000, Luxembourg table, and Tornado). I think I forgot 1 of 2 tables but some of
these table are similar like Black diamond and jupiter or Bonzini and René Pierre or Soccer 2000 and Stakanit , .... The difference
between these tables are nearly the same difference between Tornado and Striker. But there are also tables which are quiet
different. The table we play on in Belgium is Jupiter table.

MP. What is your favorite kind of foosball table to play on?

FC. I like all types of tables because the style changes and you can learn new stuff, to learn new style makes Foosball more
interested. Since I came to the US I learned a lot, Todd teach me a lot about American style and Foosball in general, I owe
him a lot. But about your question, I like Tornado because the biggest tournaments are on Tornado. But I really like all
tables (jupiter was my first table) but in fact I think I like foosball in general, it doesn't really matter on which table.


MP. How many tournaments do you usually play in each year?

FC. Small and big tournament together, it has to be between 25 and 50 tournaments in 1 year.

MP. What motivated you to come over to the US to play in our foosball tournaments?

FC. I think it is because you have the World championship and everybody wants to play the worlds, it's the major reason I
came to US. I also like to see new styles, to discover new stuff and to have new challenge. Plus now I have also other reason,
I've good friends in US and I really like to be with them and naturally to play with them.

MP. Was there any part of your game you needed to change, in order to win in the US?

FC. Sure, there were a lot of things I needed to change. The first one is the way to think, especially for the defense (every
kind of defense), the defense is very different in US and in Europe, I had to learn how American players think, Todd help
me a lot with this because he has the knowledge and experience, he told me a lot and he is still helping me. Second point:
from the back I tried ........to learn the pull shot (to clear the ball from the back ) I still try to learn the pull shot.......
not really easy but funny(I think this is suppose to be fun?). There are other points I needed to adapt, many other points
(5 rod,... ).

MP. You and Todd have just been dominating as of late, what is about you two that make you so tough?

FC. I can answer to this question in two words: Todd Loffredo ..... More seriously ..... I think we are both forward with
two different styles, so if one gets in trouble in front we can switch. Plus Todd has experience and he knows every American
player and plus he is a great goalie and forward when we are in trouble he knows what he has to do(in general.............hehehe).


MP. Is the language difference a disadvantage for you and Todd?

FC. I don't think so, I normally can understand what he wants me to do and I think ... he can understand me.

MP. Seems as though there is only about 5 people capable of winning a national tournament, what do the top 5 players have
that the next 10 don't? Skills, strategy, focus etc.

FC. For me experience, knowledge, practice and playing a lot of tournaments are very important. But the difference between
the top 5 and the next 20 is really small, it's only little things. Those little things make the difference, I just want to
say that little thing + little thing + little thing + ...make a difference.

MP. To see how much you have influenced American foosball, you just have to look at all of the players who are now shooting
the front pin. Do you get a sense of pride seeing other players trying to shoot the front pin now?

FC. It looks like people like this shot and want to do it, if people want to do it it's because they think that this shot
works but also because it's something new. It's the same with me I also practice the pull shot and it's also because I like
it and I think it works. So I don't think a kind of shot is better than another. I think the most important is the way you
do the shot, a weak front tow stay a weak front tow and its the same with pull, ... but a good pull or front tow or snake
, ... can always be dangerous. If I'm proud, you know the front tow has been in existence for more than 50 year so way before
I was born......... but its nice to see people trying your shot and I try to help them with this.

MP. I don't know of an American who has won a major tournament in the last 10 years with a front pin, why is your shot so
much better then theirs?

FC. It's because they just start with practicing this shot. But don't
forget that Todd took second at the masters with this shot. Plus it's still not natural for a player who plays for 20 years
a pull or... and change with a front pin. It has to be a rookie who starts playing with a front pin, it will be more natural.
So, to answer to your question, I think the difference is I play the front pin for more than 10 years and nearly nobody in
America has practiced this shot for 2 or 3 years. For example, Todd practiced this shot for 6 months and took second in one
of the biggest tournament and he could win so ...

MP. Has there been a significant change in the types of defenses you're seeing now compared to when you first started shooting
the front pin over here?

FC. Sure, people watch tapes and watch us playing more and more so they adjust their defenses. Plus, more you play against
a player, more he realizes and adjusts again.

MP. Are you having a harder time scoring with the front pin now?

FC. It’s difficult to tell because you have to compare the same match (in 95 and in 2001 for example). Before I had the
advantage people didn't know our shot but now I think I have the advantage I've more option because I play 5 - 6 years on
tornado and European player have more control than 6 years ago. It also depends what you mean with "harder time", take the
example of Todd: nearly nobody let him score a rolling long pull shot but now he can score with a rolling middle or straight
so it's "maybe" harder than a long but the result stays the same, its a point. So "harder" means you have to score with an
other shot more difficult to execute but you score or "harder" means you don't score so well than before? But I want to say
that I think defenses are better now against front pin because of the snake shot.

MP. Excluding Todd and yourself, who is the best player on the American tour?

FC. There are a lot of good players in US (I don't want to mention those player because I'll forget some and it's not fair), but excluding Todd and if you watch all results, for me it is Terry Moore.


MP. Americans are very blessed to have such a great competitor willing to come all the way over here to play in our tournaments.
I hope some day to get to watch you play. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

FC. I hope you understand my English and if there is something, you don't understand, you can always send me a mail for further
information. I really like to come and play in U.S. and we want to thank all American to welcome us so nicely. And I want
to thank Todd for playing with me and teaching me a lot and Ingrid and I want to thank Todd and Lisa to invite us in her home
every year.









Offline bbtuna

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  • TS, Dynamo, Tornado, Warrior, & Fireball
Re: Terry Moore, best of all time?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 09:56:32 AM »
thanks, I haven't read that before...sounds like the interview was early 2001ish...do you know the date, I save things like this?

I wonder how he would answer those same questions now?

Re: Terry Moore, best of all time?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 11:38:42 AM »
Hi Tuna,

here's the site I found this on:

http://members.lycos.nl/mauricehauben/photoalbum.html

I couldn't find any date relating to this interview, sorry.

Cheerz

Pat

_

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Terry Moore, best of all time?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 11:57:03 AM »
What TBG raises is a very valid valid point.  Which is also why I like player interviews best.

Only those who have played with and against any top player at his or her level will ever be truly qualified to assess him or her.  Only other world beaters can rate other world beaters, and only legends can realistically rate other legends.  Otherwise it's a fan love-party or a detractor hate-party.  And everything else in between..  Same as a bunch of caca or doo-doo.

But it is tons of fun, as ESPN-ABC and the overwhelming majority of their analysts, who keep spouting out their "blogs" and more often than not end up as total idiots after the results, but they just pick up and keep on going with more bullfeces about the next match.  A few base their presentations on "heart to heart" or personal interviews, and can evoke or get surprisingly honest revelations, but only a very few.

Offline foozkillah

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  • Sure Ain't A Livin'
Re: Terry Moore, best of all time?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 12:10:31 PM »
Quote from: BBTuna
I think Terry doesn't get near the credit he should for how good he is at all aspects of the game

yea, he was the person who pioneered the roller in competition (not the first technically but lets be real, he is the one who brought the rollover into the game as a standard forward shot)...you would think that in itself would give him tons of cred but it doesn’t

What more credit could anyone give Terry?  Any tournament he enters immediately gets that added "cache" and all the top players know that.  And promoters CERTAINLY know that!  And anyone above amateur certainly knows that, making his matches in singles or doubles always one of the matches to watch!

Or perhaps this is your reaction to the "fan clubs" for Billy and Spredey and Rico?  I know they rub a lot of non-MTV-X'ers the wrong way.   I'm not sure Terry would like that.  Different generation...  I believe Terry's the quiet technician who likes his play AND his titles to speak for him.  And I believe he doesn't enjoy winning and the limelight more than he hates losing.  And that's how many legends are.

Offline bbtuna

  • 1465
  • TS, Dynamo, Tornado, Warrior, & Fireball
Re: Terry Moore, best of all time?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 01:35:42 PM »
no, my reason for saying this is that i have been reading these boards for near 3 years now and I have of course seen tons of posts on best this and best that, best ever this and best ever that, who started the rollover etc

during that time, Terry name comes up but not with the same passion as say Spear or Todd or Billy and Spree for that matter

he gets respect, he is respected, and at the same time, I think he is undervalued all the same...I do not have a man crush on him, although he proves that a big man can play 8), but it is really just an observation

I am not claiming best of anything because there are so many variables and opinion drives it so much and this includes players who play players because not everyone has played everyone from all generations and not everyone is equally strong against each player and not everyone's opinion is equally good

well, i will make the one "best of all time" like I have before and like I will continue to do until something very drastic changes...the best known competition foosball player of all time is Fred...not even close

he is great in large part because he played with the greatest legend and second greatest player of all time Todd L.

there may have been others who could do things as well or better but no one has for anything more than a couple years

these two have won everything and Todd has done it for 30 years over 3 tours/tables (mainly)...Terry Moore would be up in the next tier conversation for me

there are others greats from the first generation that would be in the conversation likely if they had continued to play but they didn't (Furry and others)

so there, i went and said it, I have said it before, and goosh darn it, I will say it again

i lied, i do have a man crush on Terry, Todd, and Rico - if I wrote a couple of rap songs about them, we could call the songs Master Raps