Topic: Trash talking

[Old Meister]

This wasn't a part of the game in the "day" as I remember it but it seems to have risen to an art form now-a-days. We have our Oregon State Championships coming up next weekend and the trash talking on the local forum is hilarious. And yes, I get into it too. Those spud hoers from Idaho are going to get chopped up and fried, Oregon style. Life is good,,,

[zeek mullins]

"When you are standing on the first tee with Jack Nicklaus, he usually said only three words. Hello and good luck. You just knew he was going to beat you. He knew he was going to beat you. And he knew you knew he was going to beat you."

Lee Trevino

not sure how this fits here. but its interesting. Have you ever seen Tiger seriuosly trash talking?

[Old Meister]

No and I never did either. But it seems that it is a normal friendly pastime these days. And that is the part that makes it fun as it is friendly. It's surprising to see it going on when it isn't so friendly like what Johnny Horton would say to his opponents. I guess that is what it is about, respect-friendly, disrespect- not friendly. I feel the only way I want to intimidate my opponent is through my play, not with words. But that isn't where I was going with this. I guess I wondered if this is a phenomenon of today's foosball scene, the banter, or is it more a local thing.

[papafoos]

It's always been a part of the game.  In the old days, it was a mental thing to get into the head of your opponent.  I think it evolved into more of a friendly banter.  Personally, I never participated much unless I got pissed off.  Eventually, I figure out that that's what they were trying to do.  I learned to focus on the game and and was able to block it out, never even hearing most of the comments.

Now that I'm older, my opinion is that it's okay among friends (and always was), but shouldn't be used against strangers unless they bring it on themselves.  With foosball in the condition it's in these days, I hate to see any new faces lose interest in the game because they get offended.  Several years ago, I knew a kid in Ft Smith who quit because a couple of guys in Tulsa were relentless in their trash talk.  I knew who the two trash talkers were and I always made a point of getting up for them.  They were decent players but no where near the best in Tulsa.  I've always gotten revenge for the kid, but he never plays anymore to see it.  I wonder how many other kids our jerks have run off.

A funny story (not really) about a trash talking friend of mine.  He was just downright rude about it.  We were playing in a cowboy bar one night and he was being a total asshole.  We probably held the table for at least an hour and sat down to take a break.  After a while, he gets up to go to the bathroom.  Next thing you know, it sounds like they're playing roller derby in the bathroom.  When the bouncer breaks things up, it turns out a couple of the guys my "friend" was a little harsh too carried a tire tool into the bathroom.  I tried to console my friend but have to admit there was a tiny hint of a smile.

Trash talk is fun among friends, but take it easy on the kids if you don't know them.  And to any kids out there, don't be offended.  Use it as inspiration to get better so you can beat your tormentors.

As for me, being able to block it out in the old days was called focus, now it's called senile.

[Old Meister]

I'm with you all the way about the kids, papa. I guess one of the things that even made me bring this up was when I first came back to the game I played one of the local semi-pros. I was just trying to get the feel of the Tornado tables while trying to do the TS type of play, and struggling at it of course. But what got me was this guy had these buds that were giving me the business the whole time we played. I guess I looked better than I played to deserve that kind of attention but it made me wonder then if this was how things had changed. As for trash talking itself, I never trash talk strangers and my game is always friendly, it's how I'm built. I don't mind beating friends;) As far as those boys from Idaho, Rick Martin started it with the Oregon-Boise football game. We(OR) had to eat crow on that one and it spilled over on to the upcoming Oregon Championships where one of the Idaho am's will still play in the am division even though he won the Washington State open, both singles and dub's. He threw out a few challenges on our local forum, so a little poking back can't hurt. As I said, it's all in fun, makes the game have a little more spice.

[WillD92]

You see trash talking in sports that are direct competition like football, basketball, soccer, hockey, tennis.  You don't see it in non-direct competition like pool, golf, darts.  Foosball is a direct competition, the same time you score a point, your opponent gets scored on.  Thus, trash talking would fit in under that definition.

[kayko2000]

Alright, I want to get in on this conversation too.  I have two bits to chime in on.

I was in Malaysia in July for the VIFA Asia Open.  Last year, my friends went and came back with a story about a UAE guy who would yap and yap.  And this time, I saw him, met him (I'll leave out his name), even had dinner with him once.  Most years, he wins the Open Singles at this event - so he's a skilled player, but he has a reputation for getting real chatty after every ball.  He said this is just part of his game, used to get into the heads of his opponents.  His game isn't the same without the trash talking.  Yes, he carries himself as an over-confident / arrogant person in general (that's just his personality), but he's actually (as far as my limited interaction with him) not a bad guy.  But I can see how playing against someone who can't / won't shut up will rub people the wrong way.  He was fairly quiet when I played against him in Open Doubles, but maybe because he didn't need to talk much - his partner was killing me up front.  Actually, I think he made an effort to tone it down this year.  But he was more chatty being a spectator watching his UAE mate play against one of the top Malaysia players.  He would stand at the side, and make comments each time his friend put in the ball.  I should note that everyone who's played in Malaysia for this event knows this guy... he's been joining for 8 years.  So they know what to expect, but I can tell he still pisses people off... a lot.  And when it comes to young players with egos, sometimes these turn physical.

Trash-talking is just a natural part of competition.  I don't think it's unhealthy, but it really depends on the level of trash-talk.  When I play with friends, we'll have friendly trash-talk, usually coupled with a friendly chuckle or "hehehe".  So it's light and easy.

More about attitudes.  Since I'm originally from Vancouver, whenever I go back home, I try to drop in for some play.  I haven't played too many places actually: Vancouver, Taiwan, and San Jose.  But the Vancouver guys as a whole are the worst as far as attitude.  Maybe just a few rotten apples spoiling the barrel.  I dropped in for a DYP after a few years away and there was a scuffle and arguing about people cheating.  Lots of poor sports who take the game way too seriously.  Then I went on their message board and saw people complaining about how they don't like the other person, how once one person choked another person, how one person wants to punch another guy in the face, etc.  I'll still go, just because I love playing foos, and because I like the challenge.  But this is something that SERIOUSLY turns people off from the sport.  No one wants to be a part of that kind of dysfunctional family.  Maybe the locals are happy with that dynamic because they know the history, they know each other well, etc.  But as an outsider, I can't tell how serious these arguments are.  And this is a factor in the stunt of the growth of foosball in Vancouver.  The promoters (like the Tielens) know that too, but they can't do much about it.

My two-cents.

[PatRyan]

Well, Kayko,

I know of whom you speak when refering to the unnamed UAE player.  Others here know him too.  And your observation is correct, he is a great guy off of the table.  But he can be a little "intense" during a match. 

As far as the trash talking and dysfunctionality of various local foosball groups, they are what you make of them.  Eventually, the poor behavior will run off all but the bad seeds, then there will be no more new players.  It is up to the local playerbase to decide what is acceptable, and police themselves.  If there is no policing, you will see the same 5 people, everytime you go to play.

just my 2 cents

[noops]

Well,

I think Old Meister might even be referring to our group in his original post.  We are a small community, and we DO do some real trash talking.  But except for one of our regulars, we all try to tone it down when new people show up.  It's just trash talking with people we've been playing with for years.  All of us ease up when somewhere else at a tourney, or usually when someone new is there.  Although admit, Old Meister joined us recently and got an unusually fast uhhh...indoctrination.  But he's been holding his own on and off the table!

[Old Meister]

As long as it is in good spirit it is fun but I could see how it could get out of hand and take away the best part of foosball, that is, having fun.

[WillD92]

You know what I want to see?  I want to see an event called Open Decibels where they microphone the two goals and broadcast it.  It would be in a separate room from main events and have bleachers.  The crowd would be encouraged to make noise.

[Mr. Ki Ki]

When "trash talkin" is involved think about who is doing the talkin. Rick Martin for example is not a "trash talker". If he is doing that, there is a hidden motive behind it. Do the attendance of NW tourneys increase when he shows up? I bet they do. Trash talkin has in the past, in several sports been used to increase interest. Joe Namath, Ali, Horton, Minnesota Fats, etc. all have used it to the benefit their sport with success. Plus WWF seems to be thriving and I think they trash talk.  Plus the ones that trash talk can usually back it up.

[Old Meister]

We had our Oregon State tournament this weekend, I did just ok . The guy I "trash talked" with a smile had a smile too so it was in the same spirit. Nice guy, Mike Viet, and a good player as were the other Boise players. Bob Cassity,who plays in Boise but lives in Oregon, was there too, killer push, as good as I've seen. So trash talking can be just an interesting side note if done in the right spirit. I never saw a player at this tournament that I didn't like but I will trade the talk with any of them,, with a smile. It really was a great tournament, great talent,,,

[wildcard]

I think trash-talking is OK as long as everyone involved is having fun with it. Some of the non-tourney players at my local bar like to trash-talk but I usually don't do so unless provoked, because I don't want to scare off any possible new players that are already intimidated by the better players' games, too much trash talk at them might get them to not want to come anymore. There's only one player at my local pub that I will trash-talk with anytime, because he usually starts it and has a big ego. HOWEVER I have become very fond of this person and look at him like a little brother or even an oldest son so it is a mutually agreed form of entertainment for us--plus he is good enough to back it up for the most part so he gets my dander up just enough that I will always try to give him a good game to keep his respect (so to speak).

Never trash-talk a beginner (unless you are friends), they are too valuable to this game.

At my old hangout (15 years ago?) there was this a-hole (initials of "D.K.", some StL players from north county may remember him) who trash-talked everyone no matter who, he was like a mini-Horton except that he would try to physically intimidate if his words weren't working. At least Johnny was neurotically creative with his comments, this guy was just a mean spirited jerk and would walk up to a table of mixed couples playing rod-spinning doubles and talk his way onto the table and then try to get them to play for money. Who knows how many people he is responsible for making leave the game before they barely got started. No one liked him, so they loved it when I wouldn't say a word back to him the whole time, just crush him whenever his quarters did come up. Funny thing was he had a better 5bar than me at the time, but my 3bar was something he just couldn't get a handle on, because I shoot so many different shots on the fly. He hated when I learned the snake because he couldn't block it, so it was a "girlie shot", lol. He got to where he wouldn't even try to play back against me. And he learned to quit flapping his yap at me because he realized it was just fuel for the fire and I would use it as motivation to cream him. I found out later he was a crack and meth-head, and now he is just pathetic, and not one person would shed a tear for him, I'm sure.

[Old Meister]

Noise is noise. It's all about why the noise is made. If it is friendly then it's fun. If it is a comedian(like Horton) then it is either funny or not depending on your sense of humor.