Topic: Money for winning

[chance37]

Just curious how you all feel about the payouts at the big events.  I think that unless you are pro, or semi-pro you should only win trophies-jackets-entry fees to next tournament.  I cant think of any other sports where an amateur gets money especially the money like they put up at the bigger events.  I would think that the more money you make as a pro would be more incentive to be pro.  Rookie doubles payout is 1000 and pro is 2000...JMO...By the way I am a beginner been lpaqying for 2 years...you an have the money for now....give me the trophies...

chance

[Steve]

I think there`s to many  rankings rookie should be the lowest then novice pro master thats it then more money could go the top winners brackets trophies should go down to 5th place also you need some insentive to get more players the money just is`nt there anymore.

[Daniel]

What ever makes the turnout better.

[chance37]

I dont have the answer for turnout, but I see all the patouts for the eventsand its pretty evenly distributed.....I also see the "rookie" level guys that play here in c. fla. and they have been playing forever and a day and can hold there own against a lot of pros.  They enjoy the tournaments because winning rookie is usually not too tough....maybe im off topic there but its monday morning and my mind is scattered....Pay the Pros cash and give the amateurs and rooks trophies and tables....To get to play against the pros is rewarding enough...

[Will17]

I have never been to a tournament before, but I really do want to see the sport grow a lot. I think one major problem is that whenever I tell anyone i'm going to play in a foosball tournament next month people laugh like I'm joking. Either way I am bringing 5 or 6 other rookies/non tournament players with me to the tournament. Coming from my perspective I am curious as to how the better players will treat us. Honestly if we get to experience the atmosphere of the tourney and have a good time there is no way we will be kept away from tournaments, i'm worried that it won't be a great time for everyone - maybe have people looking down on "rookies" and then 7 new players would be out of the tournament scene forever. Also I would rather win a table than money, if I win money i'll buy a table. so I could be wrong here, but in short, one problem may not be recruiting rookies but rather getting them to keep playing...

[chance37]

when i went to my first tournamentthe overall reception was pretty good...buyt after a few weeks you will see who the assholes really are.  And i do have to say newbies arent always treated like they should.  But you should play because you love to play not because you like the companionship of the ther vets.  I play them to learn from them and your only as good as your competition so the more I play against them the better im getting and the better it will feel real soon when i wipe the floor witht their asses......This past draw I placed in the money for the first time and beat several of the guys that used to sigh when they drew my name..We lost our first match then went all the way throguhthe losers bracket and one the first match of the final but couldnt double dip them lost last match 3rd game......The biggest a hole in town that Ive almost come to fists with before congratulated me and couldn't believe how far ive come in a year....thats why I play...bitter sweet

[crazy]

When you say you've never been to a tournament, but you're bringing a bunch of guys - I guess you mean one of the larger events - maybe a 'state' tournament.  If so, six or seven new beginners/rookies will hardly be noticed except by the other beginners/rookies you play - though they'll be greatly appreciated by the promoter.

If you show up at a local DYP with five or six friends who've never played tournament foosball, the reactions could be varied - because anyone would prefer to play with an experienced player.  I think the best way for a newbie to be accepted is to show up all the time, learn from each encounter and improve.  Playing the same guys all the time can be good if they have different shots and styles.  It'll give you a solid foundation.  Then play out of town at DYP's and 'brings'.  Get used to the feeling of playing an 'away' event; it can really make you execute your best.

Soon you'll be at KY State about to play 60 other Rookies - one after the other.

I recommend going to the larger tournaments as soon as you can and as often as you can.  As everyone says - you'll learn more in one weekend than a month of staying home and practicing.  Watch the great and good players, watch the women players, watch the newbies.  Steal their secrets.

Good luck - Paul 

[Rios]

I feel that if you stop paying out Rookies, then the sport will decline even more.
With the cost of traveling now-a-days plus the cost of entries, food, hotel, etc. if you go to any descent sized tournament you are looking at a minimum of about a $500 trip and if you go to a major then probably a $1,000 trip. Spending that kind of cash and then not being able to win just a fraction of it back will not make alot of Rookies interested in traveling to play foosball.

No Rookies attending tournaments = lower pay-outs for the upper ranks

[chance37]

how many rookies win 500?  As far as paying for a trip isnt that the whole idea of attending a tournament its a trip.  A chance to get out of town and test your skills against others.  See old friends and have a good time while competiting.  Its a competition menaing the best man or woman or teams win.  But spreading out the winnings to rookies the same as a Pro or even close to what the pros win to me is ridiculous.  I realize we dont agree on this but the Pro payouts should be considerably higher than rookies and newbies.  I guess I think differently than others but at my level of play I dont care about the cash.  It would have to be a hell of a lot more money just to subsidize me missing 2 days at work on the weekend.  The trip cost isnt my concern its the missing work cost that I have to sacrifice.  And I will gladly give up a weekend every now and then for a chance to play the best... 

I dont think that the money put up for winning is the main incentive that gets rookies to show, or atleast not myself...

[TSR_Brad]

I will say up front that I believe that the practice of giving significant payouts to lower ranks has done serious damage to the sport of foosball. Now "getting paid" has become an expectation. It's also removed a great deal of incentive to move up. There seems to be never-ending complaints decrying all those "sandbaggers" and people that have been playing (and often cleaning up!) in Rookie/Am. events... and doing it for years. Where do you think that comes from?

A World Championships win would be the only circumstance I can see where a larger dollar reward would be fitting.

If you play the sport of foosball, play to win. Stop worrying about the money. Finally, if you have to worry about winning money to recoup your expenses, you shouldn't be "touring" in the first place.

If it's a recreational activity for you... and for most that's the case... a league might be a better fit.

BA

[bbtuna]

something needs to be done, there needs to be an incentive to keep working at it...the lower ranks need to "earn" their way to payday just like in any other sport where there are non-pros and pros...I would venture an educated guess which says that higher than 95% of people playing don't make enough to pay for all the costs associated with a tournament...so, you are just talking about degree of loss or cost depending on how you want to think about it

I think the Non-Pro's have to have incentives and recognition enough to keep them motivated and moving along while they are gaining points - some of those would be trophies, packages, jackets, jewlery, etc but also, there is a motivation to move through your lower rank points as quickly as possible so you can get to the "Pro" status which by its normal use in sports means "paid" ... I am not saying no money for non-pros but I am saying low money

see my next posts for tournament break out ideas...these ideas would also eliminate conflicts, provide plenty of table time, and highlight the final four in main events

[bbtuna]

These are the Main Events"...play total two main events (one doubles and one singles)...play rank or higher

Amateur 10% of total purse and Pro 90% of total purse


Amateur (10%) – pays for trophies and payouts for Expert
a beginner can not enter singles in Beginner, Novice, and Expert...pick one - a Beginner could pick Beginner Singles and Expert doubles or Novice Doubles and Expert Singles but not both…one singles, one doubles your level or higher


Beginner (0-1150 points):
Doubles and Singles - 1st through 6th place Ribbon/medals - free entry coupons for future tournament in winning event (singles or doubles)

Novice (1151-1500):
Doubles and Singles - 1st to 3rd place trophies 4th – 6th place ribbon/medals - packages - free entry coupons for future tournament in winning event

Expert (1501-2000):
Doubles and Singles – money breakdown 25% doubles 75% singles – 1st to 5th place trophies – coupons/packages

Amateur Women (0-2000):
Doubles and Singles – 1st to 5th place Ribbon/medals - packages - free entry coupons for future tournament in winning event

Pro (90%)

Pro (2001- 2400):
30% of the 90% (money breakdown 25% doubles 75% singles)
Doubles and Singles – 1st to 5th place trophies - packages - free entry coupons for future tournament in winning event

Pro Master (2401 and up):
65% of the 90% (money breakdown 25% doubles 75% singles)
Doubles and Singles – 1st to 5th place trophies – coupons/packages

Pro Women (2001— and up):
5% of the 90%
Doubles and Singles – 1st to 5th place trophies - packages - free entry coupons for future tournament in winning event

[Daniel]

I am not sure how paying cash to the lower ranks hurts the game if anything it should help.  If I win enough cash to cover my trip I would use that money to go to more foosball events.  Also if paying cash to lower events brings out more foosers the total pot will grow and more cash will go to the Pros.  I guess we need some promoters to answer some of these questions and tell us how paying out to lower ranks affects there turn out.

[chance37]

brad and tuna im on the page with you....you see me im right there........no over there.....I agree 100%.........This alone isnt going to spark attendance to great levels, but itll help with the sandbaggers....A sponsorship or two couldnt hurt either.....JMO

[Will17]

I know I wouldn't want to pay to play in any tournament of anything(not just foosball) against other guys that are paying to play in a tournament knowing that both of our money is going to go to someone who wins a tournament that we aren't part of... I think if there is any sponsorship money or revenue generated in any other way definately put it towards the pro players, but as far as being a rookie goes don't make them pay into a different pot or they wont come. I am not saying the reason I play is to win money, but would rather not attend if the money I am putting up is going to support competitions I am not in.

Another thing that I am thinking about it using rankings in a better way. I think if anyone wins a rookie or novice or amatuer tournament they should automatically be moved up a level. Could there be a system that every foosball tournament is registered to the same points system (ITSF maybe?) so that anyone who plays in a tournament is registered in some sort of foosball database and cant keep entering rookie/amature tournaments?