Topic: 2 man pull shots

[bbtuna]

why would we measure the holes based on the man width and not the ball width?  I am confused though this isn't hard

[B,inSA]

OK, a little terminology for you.

Europin/front pin(as it is sometimes refered to) - ball pinned to the playing surface by the foot of the man where the ball is in front of the rod, pinned woth the back of the foot of the player figure.  sometimes called a front pin because of the positioning of the ball in relation to the rod of possesion.  The shot is done by starting with your HAND on the handle,you roll  out of the pin to one side or the other, then moving the foot of the man around the side of and to the back of the ball, then striking the ball forward (hopefully in the direction of the goal)all with the handles still in your hand. 

The rollover starts with the ball pinned in the same manner as described above.  but the shot is performed with your wrist on the handle, you then roll out of the pin (with your wrist still on the handle), thus moving the ball to one side or the other, you strike the ball by rolling the handles down your wrist and into your hand, whish causes the player figure to spin (rotate) around the rod and strike the back of the ball, propelling it forward (hopefully in the direction of the goal).



Other things, the holes are numbered across the goal mouth with hole #1 being the one closest to the person playing goalie.
thus the "7 hole" would be the long on a pullshot and a long pullsdie  for the snake.

a "7 shot" on the otherhand describes the path a ball takes when shot. For example, a dead man pull shot is a "7 shot" .  If you were to draw a line that follows the path of the ball, both the sideways and forward motions, what you would have looksw like a "7" drawn on the table.

Hope that helps

thanks pat, thats what i thought.
you never mentioned the snake , but i know that to be the rollover.
looks like its time to learn that europin and sounds like the key lies in using the "back" of the foot
thanks again

[B,inSA]

got the feel of the europin down. just need to get faster.turns out i had shot that a couple of times in the past and didnt even realize it . its sneaky and i like that. also practiced pulls for like 2 hours tonight. smokey thunder baby thats all i can say

[Old Meister]

The "7" shot, as I mentioned was in reference to the shot Rob Atha used on Youtube where you tic tac the ball then let it hit the side wall and then hit it as it rebounds so that it angles towards the opposite goal. This terminology still gets me,,,

[PatRyan]

I believe the shot you are refering to is being called a "slingshot"

The "7" shot, as I mentioned was in reference to the shot Rob Atha used on Youtube where you tic tac the ball then let it hit the side wall and then hit it as it rebounds so that it angles towards the opposite goal. This terminology still gets me,,,

[bbtuna]

Pat is right...those are Slingshots...the 7 to my understand describes a very long pull that cuts back to the long hole...basically what a deadman pull is for most people

[foozkillah]

I beg to differ with specialization on 2bar shots from the back.  Over the years, I've played and observed Todd, Tom Yore, Johnny Horton, Mike Cody, Michael Smith, Tracy M, Stach, Swan and countless other ProM forwards with great pulls.  Yes, even Jim Wiswell and Hammer.  Even though they have great pulls from both the forward and goal positions, a lot of them have push as the primary goal shot.  Why? Because several of them choose the advantages of the push from goal area, which has much shallower lanes to the short AND long holes.  Very few had a monster square push to the long or short, but the angles plus the option to do a dink or hard lane or brushdown pass made it a good choice.  A lot of zones could cover any or all pull area shots, but to block a push from a much wider shooting area with the opposing team better sighted has to have some advantages.  To hit at or past the big dot from the push area, I have seen mostly pushkicks, which sensibly seems easier to perfect than a screaming long square push.

The push is harder to square and usually much harder, yes, to keep consistent because of the oblique look at the far corner, versus the almost direct line-of-sight look at the pull long.  And yes, I don't disagree with recommendations to get a nice solid pull for 3bar shots, although  I've seen a lot of good push shooters utilizing the deadly straight, the spray to the split, and the hard'n'fast 3/4 slight spray long.  And this can be extremely complementary to a good pushkick w/dinks series, like Jeep's, not to mention a quickset tictac crossover pullkick from the push start position.

If you have access to a table and practice time, do not neglect your possible 2nd or 3rd options!! Look at the majors in baseball, and observe what makes a great pitcher.  None of them have only one extremely dominant fastball or curveball or other pitch, but the great ones have 2-4 "money" pitches.  Same as any game.. the more weapons you have, the better chance to score!  If a football quarterback has 2 or more (note that one will usually be the more dominant) receivers, he is most effective in passing.  In soccer or hockey, the line with 2 or all deadly scorers will often dominate a line with only one "superstar".

I would even say a push series with the option to push kick, utilizing two shots, is superior to a concentrated pull series from the goal area.  Executing, clearing and Hiding, a push shot series is complementary to the push kick.long.  So is a pull or other series like a tictac or slowrolling crossover with the option to push or pull or push/pull kick.  It aint the shot, but more how many reliable ones there are to shoot or clear or pass with.  Any decent opposing team will, unless they lean over too far and their brains fall out (I swear I've seen this too many times, too!) adjust much more quickly to a limited pull than 2-3 possible release or trigger point shots from the goal area.

[foozkillah]

I have seen almost all the top players use a pull on the 2 rod why is this ? They dont seem to be clearing the ball anymore than anyone else or makeing anymore shots .Why not use pullkicks or pushkicks ?

Oh and to answer Steve's original question that started this thread, I did ask several proM's why they preferred (whether they were forward or playing the nets) a set pull or a set push series, depending on which shot from the back the goalkeeper was better at or at least more comfortable with on that particular day or instance.

A set pull or push from anywhere from the wall to outside the big box is the easiest to control and set.  I completelly agree on this point with Papafoos'  point about K.I.S.S. to minimize mistakes and make it easy on both partners.  The second major reason has to do with the emergence of forwards (overwhelmingly, I might add) with a decent high-percentage rollover.  The pass series, easiest to master and to HIDE from a set pull or push, is now a much bigger weapon. 

Especially in the Open or highest skill level events.  A set pull or push may not considerably score or clear more than other shots, but it certainly is a ton easier to develop signals and communication with your pro or promaster forward.  Most high experts and pros will have a decent snake which becomes better the more chances they get.  So any points the goalkeeper can score are icing on the cake, even when the forward's getting bricked and a team can't really hope to go far in any Expert or Open bracket without the pass to keep the other team honest.  The better the passing series, the higher the possibility of a team dominating the other team.  Scoring from the goal, while great, can always be defended much more easily at a much higher percentage than scoring from the 3bar, duhhhh. 

If you're talking about pros and promasters playing in Open, Steve, you have to realize that unless your team has no choice (your forward's getting bricked, and your teams gonna be smoked anyway) insisting on only shooting instead of passing to open up a zone easily set by the two opposing pro's (or better) is silly, versus passing to a forward like Rico or Billy or Spredey or Terry or whomever.  How best to set up a passing series?  Why a set pull or push that can easily transition into a lane pass, or a hard brushdown to the wall.  No touch required as with transitioning to a pass from a tictac or from any 2bar series that touches two players in execution.  Just practice.  Bad night, good night, tired, whatever... if you've practiced a basic set pull or push, it is easy to add and practice the lane and brushdown passes to your smokin' forward.  And the more you complete the passes, then the bigger are the holes for scoring!

Especially in an open DYP, where two pros or better may have never played before, but they most certainly have either a set push or pull series with the pass included.  Makes it simple.  As in the highest level of professional football, of course you love the bomb that scores from the first play from scrimmage, but even with Manning or other super QB's, they still plan to move from scrimmage to scoring position in the red zone.  Only shooting from goal at the higher levels without the pass option, ie, playing the hero, is just hurting your chances. Now I'm only talking about players and matches at the highest level, as you indicated.  Nothing to prevent you from going Hellboy from the back on your local teams, although each shot is another chance lost in game mode to practice your passing.  Remember that any shot from the goalkeeper that isn't an outright score is basically a turnover, as if you punted in football from the first scrimmage play, hoping to get a turnover near the far goal line.  Usually doesn't work.