Topic: Problems passing with 5 man

[gitablok]

...

[gitablok]

BB, Check out these two clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBnKNmv55hk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N7yod9oKmg&feature=user

The first is Tecball which plays a lot like Tornado. The second is Tornado of course.

Notice Rico, Todd, Trevor, and Billy all base their series's two inches off the wall. You also get to see a little bit of the " hybrid toss " I was talking about.

That is all.


ICEMAN.

[insidefoos]

Jesus Brad...we've created a monster. 

Seriously...The Iceman has become one of the best coaches in the foosball world. At events in Europe I've seen him coaching Bonzini players on Bonzini and Garlando players on the Garlando table. When other players see him giving an impromptu clinic on the pull shot (his specialty) or whatever, they flock to the table hoping to absorb some of the Iceman's infinite wisdom.

Keep up the good work Ice! You are the man!

And if any of you are in Colorado or Vienna or at the local draw, look for the world renowned Iceman, who will be happy to help you out with anything relating to your game. And he'll take your photo too! And he'll show you photos that he has taken at tournaments around the world. And then he'll show you some more...and some more....

 

Jim Stevens

[gitablok]

Ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Everybody quiet.......... Once again royalty is among us.

First it was Foosdiva Queen Melissa, now..................

ALL HAIL, the one, the only, best pushkicking fooscaster in existence, FOOSBALL HALL OF FAME member..........................

JIM      STEVENS ...............................applause...............................JIM STEVENS .................................more applause........................................ JIM..........................................STEVENS....................standing ovation.

No Jim, YOU, DA MAN,........................JIM STEVENS.


Jim is currently working on a system that will allow him to attach his voice to every post so he, I mean everyone can hear him speak.


ICEMAN.

[bbtuna]

Brad,
u sooo funny...I don't have a man-crush on the big stud hunk - I was just saying he doesn't have to justify himself with who he knows and what he has done

ICE,

I will watch those videos and I am not done with my weekend research but I had a chance to try it out against some of my local foos friends....it is a small sampling but I played for 5 hours or so and it was very very effective (until the drinks were impacting my play ) - no, very effective...I have been trying to learn to read and pass and to find people's natural bail direction (wall or lane) and their bail point....I found last night, if they were any indication, that the sweet spot is also where most people bail...aside from the angle benefits

now I think my 5 has gotten pretty good, at most any level except the very best players though I have done very well offensively against Kent and Joe Rhodes and Dube...and my 5 is much better since I played them last

I have worked on being a threat up or down at any point during the toss to make it hard to read what direction and where and since I started reading the D (primarily but that is not the only way I attack it) this has become very successful...I mix in occasional stick stuff and i have a couple easy safe tic tac stuff down in the natural flow of how I set up and last I occasionally work of the ball staring pinned on the 52

I had one of the best 5 bar players (non-pro) in our area tell me last night my series has been really working him recently and it is impossible for him to tell when or where I am going...

so, all this has been going well and then you drop the sweet spot sh!# on me...I am always open to learn and I seek new stuff all the time but I also think I know what I am doing and have been thinking I am pretty far in the development cycle...however, you drop something this simple and basic on me when I have developed a very complex hy-bred 5 and it sort of set some pride things off inside me (I noticed over the last 24 hours)

thankfully I am not so stubborn or stupid not to try and learn regardless of what I already know or what I already SHOULD know

all that, to say, "thanks" this just well could turn out to be one of the most productive tips I have employed in a very long time...

jury is still out a little because I want to finish my research but lets just say I think the verdict will be swift

THANKS big boy (thats for Bard)

talk to you soon

[gitablok]

ICE,

...I found last night, if they were any indication, that the sweet spot is also where most people bail...aside from the angle benefits

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding. Cha ching. Whistles blow. Fireworks go off. Light bulb moment.......give that man a cookie.


YOU       GOT        IT    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ICEMAN.

[bbtuna]

I should get a trophy or something but I will settle for the benefit...can't wait to work on it more against live defenses

by the way, I have seen the Todd/Rico/Trevor/Billy video many times and had already incorporated Todd and Tevor's approaches...I just didn't see it with the 2 (+ or -1/2) sweet spot concept...it is hard to believe that I have watched 100's of hours of video and never noticed this as a basic pattern

I have gotten all the 10 hour Worlds and a number of full seasons from 1998-2005 and have watched them all many times always trying to learn - it has been helpful, very helpful, and I recommend it highly

at the same time, I always learn more from a person directly...I have spent quite a bit a time communicating with Johnny Lott and during that time I asked him about things and he likes to teach and I got some valueable stuff from that..same with stuff I have read from the many posts on these subjects by good people over the last 2 1/2 years

I was taught my first time around by Jevat Meha (Chicago) but as time goes on, I realize how little I really got because he wasn't the best communicator and I am not certain he knew what the best players knew - I think he was really good as much from natural talent as anything

anyway, I have always shared and taught because it is how I am built and because I have always wanted someone to do the same for me

so, it is nice having a knowledgable source who likes to teach, is a good communicator, and takes the time to explain

this isn't as good as one on one in person stuff but it is as close as you can get if you don't have a qualified teacher livnig near by

what do I mean...heck, I don't know, just talking because this is so interesting and practical ... I consider this sweet spot thing to be a super basic concept that everyone starting to learn a brush should know - my 5 is mature way beyond this physically so that is why this sort of comes as such a shock and has me sort of babeling about nothing

anyway, thanks again...I still owe a report which I will give tommorw or Monday

[bbtuna]

ICE,

is this a literal 2 inches from the wall? is it two inches from the edge of the tape? 

I was just eyeballing it when I was practicing during play but I just took a ruler to the table and a literal two inches from the wall (not the tape) puts the ball at almost the deepest point you can still do a good brush another 1/2 inch closer and I am not sure even Mohs could do one

it looked like in that trevor/todd video that it looks closer to 3 inches from the wall or about 2 1/2 from the tape

i will be looking at this on video in stop and slow mo but I wanted to hear what you said

once I get this settled, I will put some marks on my table but I want to know for sure before I do that and before I build any bad habits

[gitablok]

Yeah BB, that 2 inches was an eyeball guess at where the spot is from the wall. After taking a ruler to my table, it " is " exactly 3 inches off the wall and goes up to 4. This is the proverbial sweet spot of which I speak. So if you want mark your table at 3 and 4, go right ahead. This area between these two marks is what you need to concentrate on in your brush series.


ICEMAN.

[bbtuna]

okay, first report...been watching Fred/Todd against Billy/Trevor 2005 Worlds final...so far, Rico is 100% within that range and his brush up is always at the 2 to 2.5...very close to the wall...his wall varies more but is still within that 3-4 range...the only brush up different is when the ball comes off the wall, usually the lane (not only with Rico on this video but others I have see) is deeper into that SZ (sweet zone)

i have always known, from the very beginning, that closer to the wall is better but I have known that for so long I forgot it as a basic principle...adding that to the SZ and remembering that the closer the ball gets to the wall the more anxious the defense gets feeling they have to comitt one way or the other are together, very powerful

I just find the SZ a much better way for me...it is good to understand both but close to the wall is undefined (for me) and SZ just says it all

what fun...I will give further progress updates, you deserve the feedback

later

[bbtuna]

5 game match, went to 4/4 fifth game...Billy was doing a stick so that is another pass for another day but Rico was doing the Brush...he passed all but maybe 2 times within the SZ (not including his quick drop "skippy" pass)...the first out of SZ was a very long off the wall brush down attempt (which was blocked) and the other one (maybe two) were off the wall lane brushes...I think there were two and one was blocked

so, almost 100% in SZ...not a big sample size but I expected to see Rico passing much higher in the zone but since he did so many lane and brush ups, he averaged most of his passes in the lower zone...

I have watched a ton of Rico and he usually goes to the wall much more (percentage wise) and a lot of those are higher up in the zone ... however, when he does a brush up, they are frequently very close to the wall (about 2/1 inches) I was surprised at out close to the wall and how deep they really were in slow mo...not as close or deep as Mohs but I think Mohs is an alien posing as a human and his species developed control of the law of physics which he suspends when doing brush ups