Topic: Probably a dumb question but,,,

[Old Meister]

What is it that is done to the balls to make them "fuzzy". I figure that the bars have them sanded somehow but is there a good way to do this. The play is so much different than what I have, which is the good red ball but untouched. Mine squirts out under the pin a lot more than a ball that is "fuzzy". Like I said, probably a dumb question but when you're working on a monster europin  deadman pull, well you just have to know,,,

[marty]

a lot of the times i just wash mine and they will refuzz, not sure if the brown marble ( red balls ) was not a slick ball to begain with
ya might have to get new balls , i no i play sometimes at a bar that
has the red balls and i shoot a europin and your right its harder to
pin but i got better at it . i also played on one of the latest gray marbles tornado came out with to me its to grippy and slow i think
if it had the slick red balls it would be better , i think it was one of the tables every one was bitching about a year our so ago its half the table of the brown marble down the street , brand new and already the play surfice top side is spliting at one goal end  these guys paid like $1700 to get it. i feel bad cause i told them that was the table to get . hope the new silver ones are better

[Old Meister]

Marty, I did order some new balls and was surprised to see that they were "fuzzy" like the ones at the bar I played at. I was under the impression that they were smooth and people made them fuzzy like that.  Like I said, it's probably a dumb question,,

[bbtuna]

the balls come fuzzy and once you are used to it players prefer them that way...they get the fuzzy by tumbling them with a sandpaper...there are a number of articles on the other board telling you how this happens and what to do to recondition older ones

the red sort of shinny, we call tomatoe ball, is stickier and bouncier and is either a bad Tornado batch or is an unoffiical knock off

the fuzzy is more like a nap and disappears after some use...the fuzzy doesn't fall off, which is why you never see little red pieces of ball, but instead, it just is packed back down on the ball so when they are reconditioned correctly, you don't loose any size on the ball you just raise the nap back up

the ball is a little slower when it has the fuzz but the ball control is much better...bar tables rarely change balls so you get to see what happens to them when they are played on over a long period of time...they go through a number of stages but the final stage is they look darker (from dirt) and they get stickier which for a backpin shooter like me is a great thing

there is much talk about Tornado changing to a ball that starts with more control...downside is that means softer ball and that means they don't last as long...there is a balancing act to find a material that is hard enough to take a beating and stay true round and soft enough to provide control...the ball/table should have more control than Tornado does currently for pins but not so much control that a pull shooter can't still do their shot with some adjustments

I am very much looking forward to a ball with a little more control...we will see how this all plays out, the Warrior is looking for the same thing

[thebodygroove]

there is much talk about Tornado changing to a ball that starts with more control...downside is that means softer ball and that means they don't last as long...
I am very much looking forward to a ball with a little more control...we will see how this all plays out, the Warrior is looking for the same thing

Judging on the basis of what I've heard so far, they should rather change the feet of the man than the surface of the ball. Everyone agrees on the ball beeing the best. Why not put a stronger ribbing on the feet for more control and leave the high quality ball as it is?

[foosman13219]

you can make them fuzzy by putting a rack or two in a sock and tie the end ..
then throw it in the wash and dry and will come out fairly decent...

we do this then trade the balls out at the bar>>

you can make a tumbler but for only a few balls here and there nt worth the time..

If you want to tumble a few hundred then build one ...

several articles around on how to build one your self

Dave J

[bbtuna]

i am not certain that deeper ribbing would make any difference...the cross-x on the foot provides a good grip I know because I have played on a man on my own table long enough to wear most of it off and it really made control difficult and when I put a new man on the table it was amazing

I never knew how much difference the ribbing made until then...with that said, having deeper ribs I think would only serve to make the ribbing last longer

maybe there is some engineering research that could be done to explore what different rib alignments and depths could provide but none has been done that I have ever heard about...they have explored recently how to deal with the edge of the man and how that impacts banking/angles and there are at least 3 schools of thought on that subject...they have also discussed and explored the idea of have the cross-x go the entire face of the foot but that doesn't address your idea

to get more control on the table you have 3 main options...the material and design of the table surface, the man, and the ball...softer material in any or all of these areas has the chance to create more control

however, softer means more friction and more friction means faster wear...so, you definately can't have the table surface wearing out...and the men wearing faster would not go over well with distributors so that leaves the ball...the same material can be used with slight changes in density...

I am okay with having to replace balls say 15% sooner because it had 15% more control...that would totally and completely rock

I have proposed before...I think there should be a least 2 balls (maybe 3) Novice Ball (beginner or consumer ball) and a "tournmament" ball

The Novice Ball would be same material just much softer and would ship with the table...change color so there is no confusion...this would make it easier for newbies to get started

The Tournament Ball - same red ball as now, just slightly more control with cool logo

[thebodygroove]

Hi Tuna,

using a deeper ribbing is one of things Fireball did in order to provide more control (they use the Tornado ball); but they also changed the shape of the feet so that now you pin the ball with a face instead of an edge (I'm not sure the technical terms are correct).

For all of those who don't know: Fireball is a German table that was constructed in order to combine Tornado-like play with the ball control typical for European tables. Their customers seem to think it worked out.

Darn, how can I insert photos from my hard disc in my posts? I wanted to show you guys what the men look like.

[bbtuna]

fireball is a good looking table
I couldn't find close ups on the feet but here are some decent photos


http://fireball-kicker.de/webshop/product_info.php?info=p3_Fireball--Figur-rot.html&XTCsid=430f2063d52524f11afe551baea3b221

http://fireball-kicker.de/webshop/index.php?XTCsid=430f2063d52524f11afe551baea3b221

http://www.a-better-tablefootball.be/fireball.htm

[foozkillah]

You guys are too spoiled .. 
I played from age 13 to 18 half the time on absolutely square-toed men, where pinning the ball meant control with either knife-edge of the front or back feet of the men.  Like the original Deustcher Meisters with the thin feet with raised gridlines.
I also learned to pin & shoot with those miniature soccer balls shaped like real soccer balls.  I seriously believe this helped me in Junior High & AFS in Europe, mostly in England, France, Germany Holland & Belgium, roaming around.  Of course I came back to Mainland USA with my own foosball handles,  , only to find newer Deutscher Meisters and Greentops with the curved feet and grippier (not quite Euro except for that yellow paraffin ball I still love the best) balls.

That was my first inkling of the neurotic, para-psychotic multiple-identity crises of first TS and then Dynamo, Tornado then Valley.  New men, new feet, new balls, new rods all too often.  I wonder how many serial killers played foosball?  I'll bet most of the ones caught were natural forwards, while the natural goalies are probably still working in your local Police department's CSI unit.  Or mulching the yard next door.

[Old Meister]

It just kills me how you seem to find all these life's lessons as they relate to foosball. Lol! I remember those box footed tables, seemed like the men were always loose on the bars. The Deutscher Meister is still my favorite, bring it back and make it the only table tournaments are played on and life will be good.

[foozkillah]

I wouldn't mind playing another game or two or fifty again on those old Deutscher Meisters..

But then again, I wouldn't mind having to complain about 99cent a gallon gas again!  I remember my Senior Engineer John, in Warren Oh, in 1980, while I was working at Packard Electric(GM), declaring to all he refused to pay 99cents a gallon, loudly and to everyone in Application Engineering.  He would absolutely choke nowadays...

I wouldn't mind paying $300 again for my beater Chevy Vega, trying to race to my next destinations before the rusting chassis and body fell completely apart.  And pulling a damn U-Haul with it from eastern Ohio to Ames, Iowa to report back to engineering school each year!   And seeing my girlfriend lean back and fall all the way back to the rear seat!      That was after watching a $3.00 first-run movie, $5 each to dance at a club on the Rte 422 strip in Niles, OH, and hanging out for steakNeggs breakfasts at the Perkins CakeNSteak at 4:30 in the am, $10 for both, with the tip! 

Yeah, there're a few things we all need to come back to ... jez lemme get back to fixing that damn time machine... it keeps saying .. "Insert quarter to continue..".  And you know as a fooser, I'd rather give up a dollar or a fin before I part with my precious foos units.

[thebodygroove]

fireball is a good looking table
I couldn't find close ups on the feet but here are some decent photo

Hi Tuna, some pics that show more details of the Fireball can be found here:

http://www.kickerbau.org/08_foa_05_fb_ulle.html

The Fireball is a very good table indeed; recently, it was ranked first place in all categories of a comparative soccer table test. I've heard the Fireball will be for sale in Canada soon.   

[foozkillah]

Hey bodygroove,

I checked out that link... nice!  Back in the late 70's, "Kicker" was what all the continental lads called Tisch Fussball.  France, Belgium, just about all the Low Countries.  So KickerBau is reinvigorated and challenging the Jupiter-Lehmacher combine which took over after the Lowen table & tour, eh?  Great to see that name ... Unless it is just the name, as in "buyout".

I always liked the old "Kicker" tables...  Nowadays I think they regard it like we regard Deutscher Meisters in the age of Tornado.  I do see, however, that they had to have them made in China like everyone seems to do nowadays...

[thebodygroove]

Hi Foozkillah!

I checked out that link... nice!  Back in the late 70's, "Kicker" was what all the continental lads called Tisch Fussball.  France, Belgium, just about all the Low Countries.

 

Well, in Germany, Foosball is still called "Kicker", which is also the term used for a Foosball table. "Tischfussball" is more of an official name for the game when it is played as a sport.

So KickerBau is reinvigorated and challenging the Jupiter-Lehmacher combine which took over after the Lowen table & tour, eh?  Great to see that name ... Unless it is just the name, as in "buyout".

"Kickerbau" (which translates into "the building of foosball tables") is the website of a Foosball fanatic who (surprise!) builds his own tables. All those pictures and descriptions on that website are meant as a ressource for guys who can handle a wood router and want to try their luck in their garages...

I'm not sure if there's any cooperation between Jupiter and Lehmacher, though. As far as I know, the tables for the P4P tour, which is the successor of the Löwen Tour, are built by Lehmacher, while Jupiter is the dominant table manufacturer in Belgium. 

I always liked the old "Kicker" tables...  Nowadays I think they regard it like we regard Deutscher Meisters in the age of Tornado.  I do see, however, that they had to have them made in China like everyone seems to do nowadays...

Yes, the Ullrich and the Fireball are build in China. I guess those little companies did not want to compete angainst Leonhard and Lehmacher, so they had to find another approach. Now they're building tables that are said to have 90 percent of the quality of the "big tables'" at only 40 percent of the costs.

I hope you find these pieces of information interesting...

Regards

Pat