Topic: Probably a dumb question but,,,

[foozkillah]

Hello Pat!

That's some great information.  Our promoter/purveyor/inventor & maintainer of Netfoos.com, Mark Winker, is on his way this Tuesday, to help Inside Foos Video productions and also to play on the US Team at the Euro TecBall championships in Germany.

I always saw Jupiter and Lehmacher tables advertised on the various foos sites, often on the same page .. probably why I always thought they were from the same maker.  My last contact and update late last summer was when Suzanne who now plays at Our House, Boston, and her friend Suzie traveled down the coast in a two-damen invasion along the US Eastern Seaboard on the way down to the Florida Keys.  They're from Dieter Mueller's longtime group, I believe, and longtime Jupiter and Lehmacher players.

Which is also why I'm now confused.  I only first heard about TecBall from my former junior high and foos friend Rene Saner, who's from Lucerne but works in Lichtenstein.  The German championships are now on TecBall?  Are they from the same manufacturer or are they muscling out Jupiters and Lehmachers with money and tournaments?

[thebodygroove]

Hi Foozkillah!

That's some great information.

I'm glad you found that interesting!

Our promoter/purveyor/inventor & maintainer of Netfoos.com, Mark Winker, is on his way this Tuesday, to help Inside Foos Video productions and also to play on the US Team at the Euro TecBall championships in Germany.

Cool! I hope they'll have a nice weekend.

Which is also why I'm now confused.  I only first heard about TecBall from my former junior high and foos friend Rene Saner, who's from Lucerne but works in Lichtenstein.  The German championships are now on TecBall?  Are they from the same manufacturer or are they muscling out Jupiters and Lehmachers with money and tournaments?

Allright, I'll try to break it down for you:

Jupiter          - Rico's home table. Manufacturer: John Gille Company, Belgium
Lehmacher     - Manufacturer. Builds the P4P (which is often simply referred to as "Lehmacher"), the official table of the biggest tour in Europe (which doesn't belong to the ITSF, though), and the Tecball, which is the table of the German Foosball Association (the German part of the ITSF).

And compared to the prize money payed in the USA, Europe is a developing country.

If you'd like to learn more about German foosball structures, feel free to ask.

Regards

Pat

[foozkillah]

Thanks Pat!

That sure clarifies it!  And I'll forward this to Mark at Netfoos!

[thebodygroove]

Hi Foozkillah,

I could have gone more into the details, but I didn't have the time when I wrote that post. For example, because of a conflict between the P4P-Tour and the DTFB (Deutscher Tischfussballbund = German Table Soccer Association), Lehmacher had to outsource the production of the Tecball to a subcompany, so that the official manufacturer of the Tecball is NOT Lehmacher.

And the Tecball is not the DTFB's only table. Each League can choose it's own table from a variety of certified models...

You see, it's a little complicated.

[foozkillah]

Hi Foozkillah,
I could have gone more into the details, but I didn't have the time when I wrote that post. For example, because of a conflict between the P4P-Tour and the DTFB (Deutscher Tischfussballbund = German Table Soccer Association), Lehmacher had to outsource the production of the Tecball to a subcompany, so that the official manufacturer of the Tecball is NOT Lehmacher.
And the Tecball is not the DTFB's only table. Each League can choose it's own table from a variety of certified models...
You see, it's a little complicated.

Thanks again,
So Lehmacher designed and outsourced the Tecball?  Interesting.  I wonder who's going to dominate?

[thebodygroove]

Hi Killah,

yes, Lehmacher designed the Tecball. Both the P4P and, increasingly, the Tecball, can be found in a lot of places in Germany. From what I've heard, they play very similar (I haven't played the Tecball yet. I'm only a rookie with very little experience).

The P4P is still the dominating table for two reasons:

Firstly, it is the modern version of the Löwen table, which is still the standard table in most bars. Now, when a bar owner has to replace his old table, he is very likely to do so by choosing a P4P as a replacement. Lehmacher's most relevant competitor is Leonhard, whose tables are indistinguishable from the Lehmachers by a layman (except for the colors). Leonhard also used to build the old Löwen tables for most of the time.

Secondly, the P4P Tour is THE foosball tour in Europe. For example, Billy and Rico play on that tour, as well as the best German and Swiss players. So whoever wants to practice his skills with the biggest tour in mind will buy a P4P for his basement.

Future developments are hard to anticipate. One would have to take into account where the game is going in general, which new tables have a chance to prevail in the market, what the ITSF and P4P will be doing in the future, etc. If I had to guess, I'd say that the Lehmacher P4P will continue to be the dominant table for at least another 5 or 10 years. But who knows? The Fireball, for example, seems to be on the rise at the moment. If the manufacturers will be able to get their table into a well paid tour, it could break Lehmacher's dominance very quickly, since the official tournament table can be purchased for less than half of the price of a P4P. We'll have to wait and see...

[spooled]

Hi guys,
 I played alot back in the late 70s early 80s. The other day my daughter dragged me into the local habitat for humanity store to look for some things we could use to do a little remodeling here at the house. I stumbled over a foosball table, and after looking it over it was in good shape, so I bought it. The men are the common  hard plastic ones. I remember playing with men that were of a hard rubber. The hard rubber gave the feet excellent ball control especially with what we used to call toe shots. After searching the internet looking for men that are made from the hard rubber, I thought I found them so I ordered them and they are the same as the ones I already have. Does anyone know where I can find the ones I'm looking for, or do they not make these anymore, or have I lost my mind and they never did?

[MR.STEVE]

I don`t remember any hard rubber ones what kind of table is it.

[spooled]

I don't know what kind of table it was, just a coin op barroom type job. Also, I could swear the rods had a spring on each end, but I don't see anything like that on any tables for sale online.

[papafoos]

Foosball Match had hard rubber men and cork balls.  I think Deutscher Meister also had hard rubber men but used the plastic balls.  Mirco might have had hard rubber men.

I haven't seen one of these tables in over 30 years, so my memory is a little weak when it comes to....What was the question?

[Old Meister]

Sounds like a Deutscher Meister.

[foozkillah]

I don't know what kind of table it was, just a coin op barroom type job. Also, I could swear the rods had a spring on each end, but I don't see anything like that on any tables for sale online.

Didn't it have a surface with the brand name, like Deutscher Meister or something on it?  Hard brittle rubber or compound would make the men you remember the Deutscher Meister players.  Of course the hard plastic ones you saw may have been any of a number of older tables, or even an early Tornado.  You would probably do well to get a table with matching men.

[Fastert]

...what does banking means in table soccer?

Greetz Fastert

[bbtuna]

to "bank" is to hit the ball off a wall when you shoot...like using a bumper in pool

most common is from goalie position (the 2 bar) and then some from the forward position (3 bar)

some tables are built in such a way that they are easier to bank on than other tables and that is what comes up from time to time in this forum

Tornado, the table most used in the US for competition, has never been very good for for banking (so say the vast majority of people although there are one or two that say otherwise)...many of us though have played on tables where you could bank with skill and those of us who play on Tornado miss it

[Syronis]

It was my understanding that each Kicker club would have their specified table, and when they played a match in another town, they'd have to play on that towns home table. At least in Ostfriesland there was a small developed league of amteurs and semi-pros. You would see people playing on any variety of tables, but you would most often see, Lowen, P4P, Leonhart and there were a couple tornado teams when I was there back in 02.  I remember how excited we all were when the pub I played in picked up a new Lowen table to replace the old old leonhart they had in there for years.

I should have kept in contact with some of my foosball buddies from my time over there, because I'm actually very interested in the Fireball table that was released recently in Germany. Seems to be very similar to the Warrior table here. It's a 1 goalie system with tornado style feet.