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snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2009, 11:41:30 AM »
If a player wants to progress in this game they should never shy away from learning the difficult. How can you have confidence if you willingly shy away from that which is hard to learn? You have to pay your dues,,,

Offline foozkillah

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2009, 07:58:32 PM »
If a player wants to progress in this game they should never shy away from learning the difficult. How can you have confidence if you willingly shy away from that which is hard to learn? You have to pay your dues,,,

That is a laudable attitude.  But I worry more about those wanting to improve that, once they learn a "proper" or "workable" (for them, at least) technique of a certain shot or a certain defense, they go on to the next one.  They spend way too little time on creating mental picture and muscle memory for each shot.

There is a similar attitude with learning pocket billiards or pool players.  They spend too much time going after the next hard "draw" and the three-rail or kick shots.  They never practice the "ducks", which is exactly where they often gag when it's "gotta run the table" time.

Back to foosball, once a noob or aspiring amateur learns a workable shot, they will warm it up and then go on to something else.  I guess it's partly boredom, but the best players will always practice the "easier" shots till it "burns" and is burned into their head, their hand-eye memory, and their muscle memory.  I've seen this a million times with players that went to the trouble of getting and situating a great table at home, but when I saw how they warmed up or practiced, they were not shooting a hundred of this in a row, or a hundred of these passes.  And then they're surprised when they lose it in meat game, with no idea why "easy" passes, catches, and shots like a straight or spray just WILL NOT FOLLOW.

Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2009, 10:27:56 PM »
Good point Killa! But it does help to defend against those shots by learning them and each person finds their niche eventually. But you do make a valid point, unfortunately I resemble what you describe at times. :-\

Offline the spray

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2009, 05:01:47 AM »

First of all the rules did not have to be changed to make a pull legal. THEY DID FOR THE "LWSS" ( for those of you who don't know, this is the technical term for the "Limp Wristed Spin Shot" according to my good friend Flair)
 
Can't handle the spin? What do you mean by that? Shoot it? Come on, anyone who whao has played tourny foos for a few years can learn how to push spin, pull spn, and straight spin on goal in a matter of a few hours. Now that yes makes it eaiser for beginers to have a 3 man shot. That is why I am not saying make the LWSS illeagal, I am just saying don't allow it at the PRO LEVEL, I am saying keep it legal at the novice amature and and all non- pro levels. possibly smaller dollar amount tours like the nike league is in golf and the tornado is in foosball.
 
this is about the dumbest reply i have ever had. are you camparing setting the pull shot rule to the snake complaints? started in 1979 and didnt hear new or older players complain about setting the pull!? stopped in 1993 and from then til now still hearing complaints about the snake so GTFO

I've read in another forum that they used to call the Pull Shot "Monkey Shot" when it came up, because the traditionalists thought you could teach a monkey how to do it. Note that neither Pull nor Snake ever where subject matters of a serious discussion since it's perfectly clear they are legal, effective techniques. There were, however, people who started whining about them because they felt unable to adjust. Those people want things they can't handle to be regarded as being wrong, illegal, or, if that doesn't help them, gay.

There's a name for those people which I'm not going to quote here.

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this is about the dumbest reply i have ever had. are you camparing setting the pull shot rule to the snake complaints? started in 1979 and didnt hear new or older players complain about setting the pull!? stopped in 1993 and from then til now still hearing complaints about the snake so GTFO

I've read in another forum that they used to call the Pull Shot "Monkey Shot" when it came up, because the traditionalists thought you could teach a monkey how to do it. Note that neither Pull nor Snake ever where subject matters of a serious discussion since it's perfectly clear they are legal, effective techniques. There were, however, people who started whining about them because they felt unable to adjust. Those people want things they can't handle to be regarded as being wrong, illegal, or, if that doesn't help them, gay.

There's a name for those people which I'm not going to quote here.

-

Offline foozkillah

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2009, 08:16:19 AM »
To the Spray and theBodyGroove,

It's pretty obvious that those who grew up with a shot find nothing wrong with it, seeing it as the most natural shot.  When Wiswell developed the pull in the early 70s, and outstanding players in Texas and Seattle and Colorado started using the correct techniques, it became a dominant shot, so dominant that it was allowed half-points in early dyps and pickups.  It was the "devil's" shot, and vilified by those who couldn't shoot it, happy with their older styles.  In fact, a lot of detractors said the pull dominated so much that it killed the variety in the game, despite the same folks agreeing that the game was in the 5bar passing and defense, not the 3bar.  But by the time the Spray started in 1979, it was the accepted kill shot.

When Terry Moore started winning majors and regionals with the rollover in the early 90's, it started taking over, as more players learned how much easier it was to use the physics of the table to generate the same power as openhand palmroll shooters, but with almost the same accuracy and virtually the same precision of under-rod shots.  And yes, rules change, which can drastically affect the game, just as when they lowered the height of the major league baseball pitching mound.  This diminished the devastating nature of sinking fastballs and sliders, which of course increased scoring, the importance of having movement and timing pitches, and increased the excitement of the game, only helping baseball.  So did incorporating the three-point shot in the NBA and amateur basketball, and they are all none the worse, although pure shooters now have a more specialized and extended lease on life in hoops.

Who the f*ck cares about the old rules?  They are arbitrary parameters set by whomever "JoeBlow Tourney Director" to allow civilized play.  When they are changed, as long as there are still rules accepted by those who play, then the new rules are just as valid.  The only complaints seem to be coming from most players who cannot or never developed a decent rollover defense, which is not harder to learn than a decent pull or pullkick defense.  Especially those who are on the comeback trail, thinking the foosball world owes them jacksh*t because they were THIS GOOD or SUCHANDSUCH SOBAD during the Carter and Reagan years.  Instead of enjoying a second chance at learning foos all over again, with less strain on older hands, wrists, tendons and the back and upper musculature.

Plus for those "real" players, not the ones with the "punch N poke" 5bars, no matter how devastating their holy pull or pullkicks were, they never lost that 5bar advantage, and a few months on the comeback using their 5bar and the much easieronthebody rollover allowed them to go back on tour and keep up with their sons, daughters, nephews, and nieces, and old and new friends.  And if they had the right pull in the first place, they would still have that ace up their sleeve.  Just as today's top players who use the pull, old geezers shouldn't complain, either fix and enhance their pull with the help of 30 years of techniques, learn to defend against rollovers and Euros and keep that 5bar untracked, instead of whining about lost glories.

Offline the spray

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2009, 03:01:13 AM »
 First of all I do not think expessing my opinion on a subject is whinning just like i don 't think someone who does not want the LWSS eliminated is whining about thier opinion.

 One of your points is that it makes the game more enjoyable for older players. You are probably correct. It also is is a fact that just like golf when a pro golfer gets older or injured or if he never was or intended to be pro he will rarely ride in in a golf cart(which is not allowed at the pro level) or play from the white or blue tees rather than the "tour regulation" black tees OR take a mulligan etc. etc. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS.

                                UNLESS UNLESS UNLESSS

YOU DECIDE TO PLAY ON THE PROFESSIONAL TOUR!

Then you must walk the course play from the blacks etc. and if you can't do that, and do it better at the highest of levels, YOU ARE NOT A PRO!

Nothing wrong with that %99 of golers are not pro's walking the course and playing from the blacks must be done at this highest of levels in golf. They do not change the rules for old golfers because it's eaisier on thier old bones. they go to senior tour or they play recreational golf like everyone else.

Take note how i presented my facts without a hint of making any personal references to people who have a different opinion. Always keep your thoughts about a subject seperate from any individual if you want to come to deal logicaly.

   When you start working on this conciously Fooskillah, you will then be able to completley understand not only why you are a complete schmuk who needs to just shut the F#@k up, because it just accents you idiocy, but you will also realize that by thinking completely objectively, why, it is common sense that's what you are and this is completely independent of your opinion on the LWSS

       It is refreshing to to be able to conduct such a proffesional discussion on subjects like this, with a person who I consider at the esteemed level that I detailed in my previous paragraph

                                                          Sincerely
                                                                          The Spray
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 03:05:55 AM by the spray »

Offline foozkillah

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2009, 07:09:57 AM »
Hey Spray,

So I say you're whining, what's the prob and who cares?  Everyone whines, especially foosers, about point spots, payouts, entry fees, travel, slop shots, their balls and whatever!  And no, it doesn't make them less of a person!  Trying to convince you and anyone having a problem with the rollover to keep playing, just learn to defend the hated snake/flailing thing and redominate!  Not dismissing you at all.  And if you have a 5bar, you could certainly come back.

But the direct profanity is uncalled for.  Them's dangerous fighting words, spray... You're spoiling for a fight with the wrong guy.  Would you rather I sugarcoat the words and not say my opinion about comebackers that won't accept what's happened the past 20 years?  You want people on here to lie and veil their opinions, and just listen to what you want to hear and attack those who say otherwise?  You aren't the first snake or monkeyshot hater, not by a long shot.  You don't want people with something to say to say it straight to you?

And maybe the next time we meet, we can have a professional discussion about you trying to shut me the f*ck up.  I don't personally believe in profanity, because it's never as effective as your classic Louisville slugger or a good sturdy cast iron chair.   And I won't apologize about pushing your buttons about whining because that's my honest opinion on all the complainers about snakes or pulls or any shot that "jez ain't the way it should be."

And you can't forget that even the most complete "schmuck" can blindside you toothside or back of the head with any ole 2 x 4, and even the most accented idiot can cap you in both knees in the parking lot somewhere after you go buy something ... and the cops will dismiss it as more random violence, made to look like a professional hit, prolly due to the economic recession, while the paramedics recommend which hoverround you should buy after the hospital stay.

Oh and yeah, pro golfers are allowed to use different technologies, like belly putters, and whatever techniques they can use to better their chances to win.  Even Tiger Woods switched his swing (drastically) four times in the effort to find a better and more effective one.  And everyone on tour uses composition rods and other advanced head designs, even with the exclusion of the Boom booms, that allow them consistently longer accurate drives that the older generations of golfers could only dream of.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 01:41:40 PM by foozkillah »

Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2009, 02:29:05 PM »
When you start working on this conciously Fooskillah, you will then be able to completley understand not only why you are a complete schmuk who needs to just shut the F#@k up, because it just accents you idiocy, but you will also realize that by thinking completely objectively, why, it is common sense that's what you are and this is completely independent of your opinion on the LWSS

There's also a name for people who talk like that. It's the very same name I didn't want to quote here before...

-

Offline the spray

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2009, 03:29:06 PM »
My bad Killah,confused you with bodygroover who called me gay a couple msgs ago. did i handle it well no!? threatening me i have issues with but take the last msg away and we should be fine. i will have more time tonight for this. oh i'm not a WHINER    








Hey Spray,

So I say you're whining, what's the prob and who cares?  Everyone whines, especially foosers, about point spots, payouts, entry fees, travel, slop shots, their balls and whatever!  And no, it doesn't make them less of a person!  Trying to convince you and anyone having a problem with the rollover to keep playing, just learn to defend the hated snake/flailing thing and redominate!  Not dismissing you at all.  And if you have a 5bar, you could certainly come back.

But the direct profanity is uncalled for.  Them's dangerous fighting words, spray... You're spoiling for a fight with the wrong guy.  Would you rather I sugarcoat the words and not say my opinion about comebackers that won't accept what's happened the past 20 years?  You want people on here to lie and veil their opinions, and just listen to what you want to hear and attack those who say otherwise?  You aren't the first snake or monkeyshot hater, not by a long shot.  You don't want people with something to say to say it straight to you?

And maybe the next time we meet, we can have a professional discussion about you trying to shut me the f*ck up.  I don't personally believe in profanity, because it's never as effective as your classic Louisville slugger or a good sturdy cast iron chair.   And I won't apologize about pushing your buttons about whining because that's my honest opinion on all the complainers about snakes or pulls or any shot that "jez ain't the way it should be."

And you can't forget that even the most complete "schmuck" can blindside you toothside or back of the head with any ole 2 x 4, and even the most accented idiot can cap you in both knees in the parking lot somewhere after you go buy something ... and the cops will dismiss it as random violence, prolly due to the economic recession, while the paramedics recommend which hoverround you should buy after the hospital stay.

Oh and yeah, pro golfers are allowed to use different technologies, like belly putters, and whatever techniques they can use to better their chances to win.  Even Tiger Woods switched his swing (drastically) four times in the effort to find a better and more effective one.  And everyone on tour uses composition rods and other advanced head designs, even with the exclusion of the Boom booms, that allow them consistently longer accurate drives that the older generations of golfers could only dream of.
Hey Spray,

So I say you're whining, what's the prob and who cares?  Everyone whines, especially foosers, about point spots, payouts, entry fees, travel, slop shots, their balls and whatever!  And no, it doesn't make them less of a person!  Trying to convince you and anyone having a problem with the rollover to keep playing, just learn to defend the hated snake/flailing thing and redominate!  Not dismissing you at all.  And if you have a 5bar, you could certainly come back.

But the direct profanity is uncalled for.  Them's dangerous fighting words, spray... You're spoiling for a fight with the wrong guy.  Would you rather I sugarcoat the words and not say my opinion about comebackers that won't accept what's happened the past 20 years?  You want people on here to lie and veil their opinions, and just listen to what you want to hear and attack those who say otherwise?  You aren't the first snake or monkeyshot hater, not by a long shot.  You don't want people with something to say to say it straight to you?

And maybe the next time we meet, we can have a professional discussion about you trying to shut me the f*ck up.  I don't personally believe in profanity, because it's never as effective as your classic Louisville slugger or a good sturdy cast iron chair.   And I won't apologize about pushing your buttons about whining because that's my honest opinion on all the complainers about snakes or pulls or any shot that "jez ain't the way it should be."

And you can't forget that even the most complete "schmuck" can blindside you toothside or back of the head with any ole 2 x 4, and even the most accented idiot can cap you in both knees in the parking lot somewhere after you go buy something ... and the cops will dismiss it as random violence, prolly due to the economic recession, while the paramedics recommend which hoverround you should buy after the hospital stay.

Oh and yeah, pro golfers are allowed to use different technologies, like belly putters, and whatever techniques they can use to better their chances to win.  Even Tiger Woods switched his swing (drastically) four times in the effort to find a better and more effective one.  And everyone on tour uses composition rods and other advanced head designs, even with the exclusion of the Boom booms, that allow them consistently longer accurate drives that the older generations of golfers could only dream of.

Offline foozkillah

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2009, 05:00:31 PM »
My bad Killah,confused you with bodygroover who called me gay a couple msgs ago. did i handle it well no!? threatening me i have issues with but take the last msg away and we should be fine. i will have more time tonight for this. oh i'm not a WHINER

No prob.  Keep me out of that argument with TBG.  And if he called you names, that is wrong, too.  Although I will say that at least he is usually up front about any opinions.  You must have pushed his buttons.  Remember that no matter what, even if they're adversaries, as long as they are up front, not "snarking",  or dropping PMs and hints about others that you can't see or reply to, then you can respond honestly.  And I have to say, when there is something wrong with foos or tables or rules or this and that tournament, and there isn't really much one can do, except to put the word out, then "whining" or "carping" or "complaining" is all one can do.  And if there are enough, then you can actually make change.  And you won't find me disagreeing that keeping attacks on the logic or situation and NOT on the person is the only civil way.

And what is this obsession with flamers calling each other gay, or knob-polishers?  I'm surprised that some representative fooser from groups like, for ex, the Foosball Assoc., Gehly-Gehlmen Of Table Soccer, hasn't come up here so far with a defamation law suit or something.  Because there HAS to be a bunch of gay foosers out there, prolly still in the closet, but also right behind their foosing friends, alll the wayyyy..

« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 05:03:40 PM by foozkillah »

Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2009, 10:38:33 PM »
Not behind them all the way!?!?  >:( ;D

Offline foozkillah

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2009, 10:55:06 PM »
Not behind them all the way!?!?  >:( ;D 

Yeah... those guys with the knowing look and grin as yer drunk buddies wake up or come to, in the drunk tank at the Sheriff's.  Losing their license is the last thing on their minds as they waddle to your car when you give em a ride home in the morning.  Makes you worry 'bout em as they "sashay" to their front door.

And yeah, those "secret foosers" havta be the ones always cheering, "Block that Snake!  Block that Snake!" in unison, complete with a dance routine ala NFL endzones.  No matter if their friends are shooting, defending or just striking a pose or what.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 11:01:40 PM by foozkillah »

Offline alaskan thunder

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2009, 12:56:10 AM »
As I said earlier Spray, quit your whining and adjust or STFU. I just got back from a decent sized tournament with some of the better pros from my state (FL). Can they shoot good pullshots? Yes. Do they use them? Not really. The snake is just an all around better shot for a long weekend of events. Sorry that your nostalgic glory days are no longer a reality but get the hell over it. You whine on a similar tone as a few of the scrubs I spent the weekend with. And FWIW people like you did bitch about the pullshot when it first came into use. As Brian said, there was a point in time when the pull was only worth 1/2 point.

/dumbest replier the spray has ever heard   

Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2009, 07:07:15 AM »
Spray can't even read. I would never call anyone "gay" because I think using "gay" as a swearword is absolutely disgusting.

I said there's a name for people who call the Snake Shot "gay".

The Snake Shot is the "Green Beret" of shots. Why should you try to kill an enemy with a complex kung fu combination when you can just shoot him in the head?

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Offline the spray

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2009, 03:32:55 PM »
Cool