Topic: Timeout!

[kayko2000]

I've been off the boards for a short while... you could say I took a timeout.

This begs the question... when are the right times to take a timeout during a game?

When I played in Malaysia in July, my partner seemed to be taking timeouts at certain moments of our game.  During game/match points when we had the ball at the 3-row seems like an obvious place.  Where else?

Maybe when the pace of the game isn't to your liking?

It seems there are "obvious" times to take timeouts.  I was watching the 2009 Tornado Worlds, during one of the games... and Jim Stevens said "so-and-so (forgot which player) should be taking a time out after this", and he did.

I'm sure everyone has different reasons for taking timeouts.  Would love to hear them.

[kayko2000]

I should add: "when to take the timeout and why at that particular moment (what's the effect)"

[Tyler Foos]

Kayko,

Great question. I think the answer breaks down into 3 categories:
- To keep/gain your momentum
- To break your opponent's momentum
- Rest/fatigue

If you are playing well, especially in terms of time of possesion, a timeout can increase that sense of control, especially when the timeout is called from the 3 bar. Similarly, if your opponent plays a fast style and your strength is a slower, more methodical game, a timeout can help slow down the pace. Of course, what you do after the timeout is huge - if you end up losing the point you can end up hurting your own momentum.

I remember a singles match several years ago where my opponent was strong at grabbing rebounds after his 3 bar shots, and was getting 3-4 shots in succession. I used a couple of timeouts from the defensive position to try to break his rythmn and increase my own sense of control.

I am anxious to hear input from others.

Take care.................................Tyler

[alaskan thunder]

I like to burn a timeout when a weaker player (teamed with a stronger player) makes a bad play such as a turnover to my 3 bar or lets in a slow roller because he just freaked out. This works especially well if the dominant player is somewhat rough around the edges. The weaker player will spend the whole timeout feeling that he let his teammate down and he will play worse after play resumes. I know that it is cruel and I wouldn't do this at a local DYP but out on tour, I play to freakin' win!!!!!

[PatRyan]

Timeouts should only be taken, when there is a purpose.  Do not just take one for the sake of taking it. 

some good reasons for taking timeouts:
to communicate with your partner (strategy, information, morale boost, etc.)
to calm your own nerves (if you are not feeling confident, need to refocus, etc.)
to switch places with your partner (this should be known by both parties ahead of time, strategy and what not)
to take momentum away from your opponent (but only if it will not adversly affact your game)
because you are about to run out of time (possesion)

In response to Alaskan Thunder, I would not take a timeout in that circumstance...taking a timeout gives the opponent time to recoup, and refocus.  It could also give the opponent time to change strategy and possibly correct the reason for the turnovers.  just my 2 cents.

[PatRyan]

In reponse to Kayko regarding Jim S calling the timeout during the commentary before the player called it, I can probably tell you the situation (make no difference who the player is).

Player with ball on his 3 bar, game score is most likely 2 to 3 (doesn't matter whether the shooter has the 2 points or the 3)

He took the timeout because of the importance of the next goal scored, and the shooter called the timeout to refocus, and make sure the shot was executed properly, and placed on goal.

[kayko2000]

I'll have to check the footage again, I think one player had 4 points.
But you bring up a good point, because a possession on the 3-row at a 2-3 or 3-2 score is critical.  If given that situation, would you say it's recommended almost 100% of the time to take a timeout?

[PatRyan]

Nope, I would not say take a timeout 100% of the time.  It would really depend on the flow of the game, how well I am executing, how well the goalie is blocking, whether the adrenaline is flowing, etc.  It is a very important point, but I would only take a timeout if I had both timeouts left, and I needed to take it for other reasons, not just the game score as a reason.

[kayko2000]

I just watched some Tornado tournament footage, and noticed that when a player wants to take a timeout, they take it almost immediately after they get 3-row possession.  Usually, here, even if we know we're going to take a timeout, we milk the 15 seconds - letting the defense work unnecessarily.

Is there any perceived difference between the two for the opponent?  Psychologically?

If I take a timeout after 10 - 13 seconds of faking and waiting, whether the goalie may think that HE made us take a timeout - and thus have the reverse effect from the timeout.

[PatRyan]

Well, if you are simply milking the time on the three rod, what is that really accomplishing?  Are you reading the defense, are you truly focused on the task at hand (scoring a critical point)?  If you are not intending on doing something with those 13 seconds, and are just letting the clock run, you are not focused, and should just take the timeout once you have control of the ball. If you are already focused, and want to get a good read, or have some other purpose to those 13 or so seconds, then by all means use them.  But just waiting out the clock could cause you to lose focus, or even give the goalie more time to evaluate his/her defensive scheme, or change his/her approach to defending you.  (although there is that chance when you take the time-out as well)  Another thing to think about, is will the opposition switch positions during the time-out?  Does the other player block you at a higher percentage than the current goalie?  Will shooting on a different defense change the way you have been approaching you offense, or the way you execute your shot series? 

Many, many things to think about BEFORE you take that time-out.  Remember, the purpose of the time-out is to give you, as the shooter, the best opportunity to score.  If anything will take away from that, you should not do it; whether that thing is taking the time-out, letting the clock run down before taking the time-out, taking to your partner during the time-out, whatever it may be.

I could go on for HOURS on strategy, so I will stop here for now 

[bbtuna]

i am with Pat, use the time before you call time out to your advantage...short or long, study the D, set something up, get calm, whatever the reason, lots of time or no time, use it for you...I think this should be the rule for all time outs

i will say it like this...always use time outs for you  or negatively stated, never take timeouts for the other player...i don't believe in trying to get into someones head with a time out because you don't can't be sure it always works to your advantage...that extra time may be exactly what the opposition needs.  You don't know and you can't control how they respond.  This is why you always want to take time outs when it is a benefit to you.  In addition there are too many other critical times where you need time outs (or should need if you know enough  )

watch Fred, he is the master of time outs in my opinion- no one before or since uses TO's more consistantly...he takes time outs in important situations, normally (90%+) on the 3 rod but i have seen him call one on the 5 before if he needed it

Fred takes time outs at really important times...you are up 2 to 1 and you get the ball on your 3...if you score, it is 3 to 1, if you are blocked and they score it is 2 to 2...big big big difference - also, Fred takes a TO on game ball...Fred usually uses one early, in an important score 2-1 3-2 (up or down in either score but in Fred's case it is usually up ) and likes to keep that last one for game ball

however, Fred will take one as needed if something else is happening where it benefits him

when playing with Todd, Todd, when playing goalie, will nearly never take a time out for strategic purposes, none that come to mind although i am certain it happens now and again, but he will 100% of the time, take this to the bank, take a time out if he whiffs on a shot in back...he says once you whiff, nothing good can come from going forward - i have tested this theory with many people over the last few years and it is solid - never continue in goal after a whiff - or in the context of TO's, always call a time out if you are in goal and you whiff/mis-hit a shot - why? because it benefits you!

i think Todd leaves the time outs to the forward and doesn't like taking them in goal (but Todd will take them as a forward so it isn't because he is a player who never calls them) but he knows after a whiff, you grudgingly use it

when the goalie takes the time out, it shorts, so to speak, the forward of one of the important game management time outs but it is better than making a rookie blunder by trying to make up for your whiff

anyway, besides crucial scores, there are other other reasons druing the flow of a game to take time outs but for now, to come full circle, the principle for deciding is time outs should always be taken to benefit YOU and never to try and get in the head of the opposition

[kayko2000]

This is great info, guys.  Thanks for this.  Where I play here, there really is no strategy to taking time outs.  They're taken out of necessity to avoid fouls (exceeding time limits, bouncing off the wall 3 times at the 5-bar, etc.) and that's about it.  Phil Jackson has been called the best time-out-taking coach in NBA history, and I'm sure similar type of strategies apply in foosball.  Just needed someone to explain their take.

Pat, I have hours of reading time if you have hours of writing time.   

[Tyler Foos]

Really good info, Tuna and Pat! I think the only thing I can add (and it is consistent with 'benefitting yourself') is that when Fred takes a timeout on the 5 bar, it's almost always because he has used up his 2 walls early in the possession and has therefore lost options for the pass. He is amazing at keeping/having so many options to start with.

Tyler

[JoeyDMaio]

I agree with Fred's smart-asses timeouts, but I recall an interview of Rob Atha where to answer the "When to take a time-out" question he just said "When you think about it".
I think he's pretty right on this, try to notice how much you score when you get the ball on the three, think about a time-out and finally decide to not take it, most of the time you'll miss or get blocked...

[deadbarfoos]

beware of the ones who take a TO on "0 to " ,,then another at "2 to " and then another at "4 to ??"
3 timeouts! ,i saw a local who will remain nameless commit this one ,i figured he called it on "0" to use a free one
and then 2 more

i use TO's for time running out situations ,or i need a little rest before the "big point" so that i can execute with renewed breath of fresh air ,muscles recharged, and some thought,,,,

or use them for a switching match ,swap between points then use a TO to switch for the shot up front

other rare instances ,,to regroup and think of what to do to turn things around