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What ever happened to Warrior tables?
bbtuna:
there is no comparing these tables, Tornado has been making the premire table and only Tournament table for nearly 40 years, Warrior played great but couldn't hold up to the rigors of tournament play and the heavy solid rods took a tool on some arms and I think if it was out an extended period of time, these heavy rods would damage people
the enters Fireball...i now have over 40 hours on the table and I can tell you without a doubt its the best table ever made...I think the fit and finish is better than Tornado and Warrior isn't even in the discussion but even my first generation home model is argueably better than Tornado's coin op T3000...some will argue but let me tell you what you can not argue because it just facts...these things on the Fireball home model and therefore on their coin op too:
* BEARINGS...better made and bigger so it lets the rod through if you want to remove it
* LEGS...substantially better - metal and weight probably 4 times what a Tornado leg weighs and are hollow so they can be filled with sand or lead shot
* FEET...way better than Tornado's comparitively cheap plastic feet...these are metal, very sturdy, and have a rubber bottom with ribbed to set sturdy on any surface
* PLAYERS FOOT...Warrior is at least in the discussion and Tornado made improvements when they redesigned their foot (but didn't go the entire way) but Fireball worked out all the kinks and you get a man that can tic tac as well or better than any table made, it will handle front toes as well or better than any foot on any table, it allows for crisp exact angles every time like the old TS did which means kick shooter and banks are back in the game, it can shoot a straight set shot as good or better than any table, no sacrifice on brush passing, better in my mind than Tornado which was the best, AND last, THE BEST DESIGN FOR A BACKPIN EVER! Warrior was good, much better than Tornado and I liked Tornado, but it is out of this world on Fireball
* RODS, RODS, RODS...i have saved this for last because it is SOOOO much better...War is a universe apart with heavy solid rods and Tornado, well they are the same right? they are both hollow and both heat treated...NO! not in the same arena...if they were baseball, Fireball rods would be Major League and Tornado would be Little League...no, just kidding, they are more like single A Minor League
when i first opened it up, i had heard so much about the rods my expectations were high and at first they didn't seem special at all, they actually felt stiff at first but that improved with cleaning and silicone. I thought seems smoother a little but I don't see the big difference but i stuck with and week after week went by and i logged longer hours.
Things changed as I understood how not to use so much muscle and let the rod do the work. Every shot of mine is better and not by a small margin. Now, when I go back to my Tornado, I feel like I am pulling lead through molten rock. Two nights ago i had company and they wanted to see my foosball room and I stepped up to my Tornado like I have done a thousand times before with company...I stepped up and tried to whack a few real hard to wow them and I actually began to injure myself because the rods were so sluggish.
I literally couldn't wait to get back and sling some stuff around on my Fireball...it actually felt better to let my now injured wrist ride along with the Fireball rods. You can't get the benifit with one or two sessions or a weekend. You may see that they are faster in that time but you just can't appreciate how much difference it makes...I can shoot endless pulls and never get tired. Everythings is smoother, less effort, shots are longer and cleaner.
I could go on and on and I still would not be exagarrating...it sounds like hyperbly but its not...there are other features and parts to Fireball that make it at least as good and in most cases better than the best table EVER made but with these rods, the center of all play on a foosball table, Fireball is for sure the best table out of these 3 tables which makes it better than Tornado, which makes it better than the best made table in the world...I will go further and say, Fireball is not only the best table made in the world it is the best foosball table EVER made
oh, you may have grown up on this or that and you have your emotional favorite but putting emotions aside, there is no table that brings this kind of balance in speed, control, and precision.
Buy Fireball, you will never regret it...
garabdorje:
bbtuna,
Amazing feedback!!
I was very interested in Fireball tables, now I am really excited!
I'll keep putting money in my piggy bank too buy one by Christmas.
Thanks!
P.D.: By any chance have you played on a Garlando table? I like the euro shot or pin shot style of shooting. I wonder if I could learn to do the Garlando tricks on the Fireball table.
Anderson:
Okay everybody, I just have to chime in here.
First, I own a Fireball table and I LOVE IT for many reasons.
HOWEVER...
If they had made their ball stickier, I would agree that it's great for front toe shots. It is good, but not the best. If you enjoy euro pin style shots, you need to investigate Bonzini. If money is an issue, well find one used or find an old Rene Pierre for sale. But if you want to experiment with different styles, get a Fireball. I have already played with a Garlando rod on this table. You have options if you are willing to experiment. NO OTHER TABLE gives you those options. You can tinker with the three piece bearing and give yourself a whole lot of possibilities. I'm currently working on installing a 14mm Rene Pierre rod with older Bonzini men that were made shorter. I found 23mm OD 14mm ID nylon oil gaskets that after scraping on sand paper to get to 22mm OD, they fit perfectly inside the three piece bearing in a notch that seems almost perfectly made for it. This has given me the perfect near side bearing. Some think this is impracticable. Why change a perfectly good table? Because I CAN, with EASE. The three piece bearing makes it easy, effortless. It takes seconds. Get a Fireball.
bbtuna:
well, when i was talking about front pin i was comparing it to Tor and War...there are a bunch of Euro tables that have a lot more ball control...much "stickier" if you will...on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being stickiest the scale would look something like this
10 Bonzini/lehmacher
9 Garlando
7 Warrior (with warrior ball)
6 Fireball
4-5 Tornado
but stickier isn't better, its just stickier...all the euro tables are stickier than the american tables but they are all also terrible with inline shots, they are hard to set up and if you get them set up they are terrible hard to shoot....the ball, the playfield, the large ramps on the side or rear corners all limit how and what you can do
its just an opinion but i think a table is BETTER that allows you to do more things...there is some trade off some place, a table can not both be the stickiest and best in line...super stickie not only make inline shots (pulls, pushes, push/pull kicks) hard but they make shooting a backpin a near impossible task...there is also the issue that most of these talbes don't have counter balanced men which means playing singles is a different animal trying to manage the men falling down
then there are the funky little handles and the telescoping rods which may be safe but they do not preform like you imagine that tables would after 50-60 years of table evolution. here we are in 2011 and most of the tables in europe either are not level, or they can't make a ball that rolls true round and stays true round or the playfield has funky ramps on the sides or in back that don't allow you to use the entire field
and there is build quality...meaning, a table that can stand up to the serious abuse of unsupervised bar life for years and years....men that can be changed (unlike at least one table I know) but men that don't need to be changed and yet have the design and precision of years of experience and engineering not a table that stays mired in the past without concer for improving play, design, etc.
as i started to say, you can't have everything but IMO its about balancing all these things...a table with precision, a flat playfield, ability to shoot every shot ever designed, a ball that starts and stays round, men designed to last for ever and execute with finesse and power...
yea, you can find tables that allow you more control for a front toe but at what cost...i dont think the trade off is worth the benefit unless of course you want to play 80%-90% with the ball pinned and don't care about how the ball rolls on the table and don't want to shoot inline shots and you like men falling down every time you play singles and you love having to change out an entire rod if a man goes bad and love to pay twice as much for all this then you should for sure buy Bonzini
garabdorje:
bbtuna,
Interesting... It seems there's only one option here, Fireball.
From what I have read Fireball has the versatility to let you play any style of Foosball, gives you the best quality, durability, performance and for a very good price. That's why I want one, I was just wondering if I was going to be able to make the pin shot and its variations since that's the shoot I feel more comfortable with.
Also Bonzini is way to expensive to be an option and where I live there's no way of getting one used since all of them are on the East Coast and for local pickup only.
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