open-handed stick pass

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open-handed stick pass
« on: October 28, 2012, 10:28:37 AM »
i'm trying to learn the stick pass on the 5-row, but i'm not quite sure how to stroke the ball. so far, i've used a closed-hand grip to pass it to my 3-row, but i can only pass the ball hard with a huge follow-through.

after watching some videos of dave gummeson it seems to me that he uses some kind of open-hand grip to stroke the ball forward, but i'm not quite sure. is this the case or some optical illusion :)?

i just tried a couple of stick passes with a kind of semi-open hand grip. it works not that bad for lane passes, but when i try wall passes i always bounce off the wall because i can't force the 5-bar to stay on the wall with an open-hand grip. also, instead of a big follow-through when using a closed-hand grip, i now have a big backswing when using an open-hand grip. otherwise i can't hit the ball hard enough.

so, what's the best/recommended way to pass the ball hard without a big backswing/follow-through? should i use a closed or open-hand grip?

Re: open-handed stick pass
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2012, 03:29:29 PM »
Most people will tell you to use closed hand grip. You should never need as much power as open-hand allows.

However, the real trick is simply to limit backswing, so if you do use an open hand stick pass and your backswing is minimal (to the point where the backswing it just enough to pass overtop of the ball) then you technically should be OK.

Follow through is OK, there's no reason that you should consider a stick pass bad because of follow through. The only things you should concentrate on are:
- Lateral toss speed (or the ability to mask whether you're going lane / wall and making each unraceable)
- Release speed (ensuring that you don't have a huge backswing, which is a tell as it takes more time to execute, as well as striking the ball with enough force that your pass is crisp)

Assuming your pass went where it needs to go, follow through should be irrelevant, unless it's so large that you lose the ability to defend afterwards.

Re: open-handed stick pass
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2012, 03:38:06 AM »
Thanks for your answer and hints!

As I said the problem I have with using a wrist flick to strike the ball is that my passes are not crisp and it sometimes even hurts when I try to strike the ball hard.

Since my first post I watched several matches from pro-masters (like moore, adkisson, yore, gummeson) and they all use an open hand stick pass. By that I mean that they start the pass with a closed hand grip, but after the lateral toss they open their hand and slide it upwards minimally (backswing). The striking motion is then a combination of rolling the hand down and a normal wrist flick. Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

I'm going to try this technique and see how that develops.

Re: open-handed stick pass
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 05:12:51 PM »
If you are hurting your wrist and not getting power, then you might have an issue with your technique. It should not hurt your wrist to do a close hand stick lane. I would try a few different ways to grip the handle, maybe be aware of the way you square up your shoulders. Find a way to strike the ball that feels comfortable for you, that's most important. I I don't think you should give up on the closed hand pass just yet.

Re: open-handed stick pass
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 10:11:26 AM »
Under normal circumstances it should suffice to just loosen the grip a little, and then close it again very quickly. You can support the motion with a minimal action from your wrist.

Offline crazy8

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Re: open-handed stick pass
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 08:48:11 PM »
Try this...

On the 5-2 bar (2nd man from you on the 5-bar)
  Set the ball just barely behind right-under-the-rod
  Set the opposing 5-bar against the wall - blocking the wall pass
  Pull the ball towards you in a short motion
  At ab out the same time - raise the man just high enough and no higher

In this example you are going to attempt a high-lane pass
   Strike the ball just past the opposing 5-2 - and strike is not the best word
     because you should brush through it with a strong follow-thru
   Catching the ball almost behind the opposing 5-2.
   Your 5-1 man's motion should be almost a snap up-and-down motion
    A little hard to describe - easier to demo

You will find that this brushing motion is the 'thing' that makes lots of stuff work:
   Such as the various pull and push shots.
   It generates wicked speed with little effort
   Brushing either forward or back on shots is what gives the control to hit tight shots
   The same motion works on passes - even without setting the ball deep behind the rod.

If you play with it - post your results.


Re: open-handed stick pass
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2013, 01:10:07 PM »
You should check this tutorial from Ezequiel Cervantes it's very good.

Look at his close hand the index finger is on the rod and not on the handle, this is very important to successively make a wall pass. Other wise your hand can slip and you will loose power.

This is a video from Ryan Knapton explaining the hand grip for passing.

Make sure you download the excel format he made to keep track of your progress. It is very helpful and you have all the links to the videos in YouTube explaining the next part.

Another very important thing is kind of what RobYates was saying

maybe be aware of the way you square up your shoulders

Your stand position is very important also. Maybe your forcing you wrist because both feet are together and pointing at the table?. Or maybe you just need to stretch those tendons on your hand. It's not a natural hand motion, you are extending the tendons from your wrist in a fast strong motion. What I have notice a lot with new people is that they tend to stand right in the middle of the two rods they are holding. They always end up bumping their belly with the handles because they are in the way. I always tell them that they need to have a stand that lets you pull all the way on the rods and not bumped. A diagonal stand is the best as you can see better and you wont get in the way of your right arm also. It is difficult to explain without pictures  :P I hope you get the idea.

I just love what these guys have done Ezequiel Cervantes, Ryan Knapton and Eric Dunn they made my foosball less frustrating  ;D

Offline crazy8

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Re: open-handed stick pass
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2013, 09:15:47 PM »
Regarding wrist pain - make sure you are not leaning your weight on the rod.  It puts a lot of strain on your wrist.

Re: open-handed stick pass
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 09:17:15 PM »
I used a variation on the open handed grip when I do an angled brush pass from the wall.  I grip the handle in my fingers not my palm.  With this grip you do not roll the bar, you rotate the handle with just the fingers of your hand.  This grip also works for quick passes to the wall.  You get more extension with your fingers and can move the ball very quickly to the wall.  This grip is not so good for tick-tack. The longer extension of the grip makes more variability in the movement of the ball.  But if you want to work with the ball in a near back pin or want to give a lot of speed to the ball, this grip works nicely.  Do not roll the bar. Just grip the handle in your fingers and rotate the bar with your fingers.  Your wrists come into play when you use the full extension of the grip.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 09:19:45 PM by jerrydiday »