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Another "what table should I get"

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Another "what table should I get"
« on: December 07, 2014, 12:41:27 PM »
I have enjoyed reading the forum and this is my first post. I hope I can bother you guys for another what table should I get question.

First I've been looking for a used Tornado Coin Op on and off for the last couple years and haven't even seen one within 500 miles. Also having a family gathering January 24th and would like to get something before then.

I used to play foosball all the time on some cheap Wal-Mart foosball table and at local bars but I doubt I've ever played on anything as nice as a t3000 and haven't really played in over 10 years. My dad and uncles used to also play a lot and used to play in some small tournaments. We all used to play on that cheap Wal-Mart table though and had a lot fun (even though a rod was bent right away). I have a 5 year old son and want something that will last into is teenage years. I'll never play tournament or anything just want something nice for when people come over.

So I  can get tournament used or new non coin op for right under $1700. Just having trouble justifying this much money. Then messing around today I see I can get a tournament used Warrior shipped for under $550. That's a huge price difference! I know how great the T3000s are. Warriors sound like they are good for the price but are they made to stand up for 15-20years (even if not I could by 3 Warriors for price of one Tornado!). Is there going to be a lot of play difference? Does the weight make a huge difference? I'm not that big but a few relatives and friends I guess are pretty strong guys.

Thank you very much for your time and advice!!!

Nick

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2014, 02:02:53 PM »
I would say the weight is only a small concern, as long as you have a real table vs a cheap table...   Weight prevents the table from jarring easy or shifting.  If I were you I would also consider a cyclone II , tornado classic, or tornado elite.  They tend to pop up on craigslist and ebay as often.  Short cut your searches in your browser and check often.  The tornado coin op is nice, but not necessary if your playing infrequently at home.  Most of the desireable coin features are for durability, heavy use, cleaning, repair, and portabilty. 

The warrior is fine for home use, lots of opinion on em, and some would like it better for a few reasons;  I hear it is more fun if your into bank shots.  The long term is a bit different in terms of durability, depreciation, and parts...Overall warrior is excellent value for the now.   Considering your playing foos at home its definitely an option as you could always sell it, or maintain it with minimal costs.

I troll the used market often and if your willing to spontaneouly travel for a couple hours, you can often get a deal on a tornado coin / 3000, cyclone II, shelti pro, or even fireball.  It's pretty random, but every month or two one pops up in my region.  Here in the Northwest, Seattle/Portland seems to have good turnover/listings but Canada is tough competition thus driving up prices.

What region are you in, maybe someone has a table there sitting on?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 02:06:45 PM by johnwallan »

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2014, 02:19:16 PM »
Thanks for your thoughts.

I live in south central Nebraska. So not much population but I would drive to get something. I've be disregarding any Tornados but the brown/grey marbles and the t2000/t3000. I've never even seen one Craig's list and nothing within 800 miles on ebay. My understanding was anything under the t3000 or the equivalent older models weren't and better than any other home model.

When I seen the Warriors are used in tournament play I thought, maybe naively, they had to be really good tables. Would a Warrior be better/worse/or the same as the Tornado home tables?

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2014, 03:38:31 PM »
I can only suggest that warrior is a good table for the now, and an excellent value.  It is by no means a "cheapo" but it does have some comprimises to hit a price point.  It is optimized for the home market as that is where the sales are these days.  Most players are happy it is out there and that the manufacturer is supporting tournaments.  It is overshadowing the countless crap tables that are sold for a similar price and is emerging as a new standard.  If you are price driven and wanting new, it is a best value.  If you are on their mailing list, they sometimes offer promotions on factory seconds or clearance.  I was sent a private xmas deal after ordering some warrior parts... hard to resist, but I have no room for it.

As far as Tornado is concerned they have a broad spectrum of tables, and if you will be searching in the used market it has a 40 year history.  Some tables used lightly at home, some worn out from commercial locations.   In addition, there are era's with manufacturing issues.  Bit of a mine field.

If I were to simplify, consider buying a tornado with a split bearing design or at the absolute minimum, counter balanced figures.  There are a number of other things to look for related to wear and tear, and playfield flatness I won't go into.  Given your remote location, I wouldn't be too picky, just be looking for something that appears to be in good condition, especially the goal posts, playfield and (most of) the rods.  The coin or TP is favored on this website as you are communicating with tournament players that like a high degree of consistency between practice and competition and also value ease of maintance.   

I just think if your isolated from competitions and commercial use, you can use any qualtity home table without concern...  the cyclone II/ elite, shelti pro foos, fireball, classic/storm II even comes to mind.  If you have a 10 year plan, having a standard table become critical, and the warrior is likely not the best choice.  I would call it more of a excellent stopgap, tournament trainer, or starter table.  If you want a really good table, expect to spend more than $600 usd and be prepared to travel to get it unless you live in a large city.

Part of me likes buying used, as you can see the table setup warts and all.  Being from the country myself, I understand the frustration of waiting and/or ordering things, returning defects, resale, etc...  All part of the equation... at least your housing is cheap... 

http://www.foosballsoccer.com/tornado-tables.html

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 04:08:12 PM »
I appreciate you taking the time for your responses.

I had read somewhere on the forum it is nice to buy tournament used because then you know the table had been setup once and all the bugs worked out. I believe this was in an old post about the T3000s when there were a bunch of defects. Sounds like Tornado cleaned this up though in the past couple years.

So right now I'm really thinking about buying the tournament used Warrior. I figure bugs would be worked out of it and it saves about $100. Couple days ago I had my mind made up to buy a T3000 and probably would have already but seller hasn't emailed my back this weekend. Now I see a tournament table for $1200 less and I'm having second thoughts...

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 05:40:02 PM »
Be careful, I think you're mixing Tornado tournament used advice with the warrior tournament used pricing. With Tornado you are saving upwards of $600 and with warrior $100.  Generally, you pick the table up at the Tornado tournament so you know it's complete and can check it out a bit. Currently it's suggested Tornado quality is high, so it's very low risk to save $600.  With warrior you are saving only $100, and they ship it...there is more risk relative to savings....  The tournament used pricing has a lot to do with container costs, shipping, and handling on premium tables.  Think $250 to ship a table and insure it plus the massive hassle and risk.

I personally can't speak to Warrior's quality control at all, as no one talks about it and I do not have one (yet).  The prices seem to indicate low cost chinese manufacturing so that could be an issue at some point in the life of the table.  I can say they are really really good when it comes to cheap parts and playfields ( for their current tables ) and shipping quickly.  My gut feeling is if you buy new you likely have more recourse to replace a damaged playfield , cabinet, or order missing parts at delivery.  From a mechanical point of view, I think it is hard on a budget home table, to be disassembled and shipped a second or third time.  I could be completely wrong, but for a hundred bucks you need to consider the risk of wasting time.

In all my rambling, I suggest a lot of what ifs that are unlikely to materialize.  I think you will do well to choose either warrior or a Tornado in your case.  The warrior does have the benefits of immediacy, cost, and those removeable bars. Yet the Tornado has the American Standard playing style and high production quality on most cabinets I mentioned.  Because of your location and the costs involved, I would buy a Warrior, see how you like it, wait for a good Tornado to come up.  You never know, you might get hooked on bank shots and dislike the Tornado style...many do... The important thing is to start playing with your buddies and learning those tricky shots!

YoYoGo Foozball!!!

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 06:24:03 PM »
That makes sense to me. I was thinking of the "tournament played" as an advantage in both models. I think I agree with your logic so if I go with a Warrior I will just go new directly for Warrior.

The bad thing (in my mind and my wallet) is the used Tornados are coin op which I really don't need or don't think I really even want. So the bid I got for a used Tornado is actually $20 higher than a new t3000 non coin op. I was going to go with the used coin op because like I said above thought the "tournament played" added some good quality control and maybe the tournament players had done some "tweaks" and average guy assembling would know about. I asked the vender his thoughts but haven't heard back.



Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2014, 11:32:50 PM »
Thanks very much for taking the time to post the links.

Those are all within 5 hours so doable.

I've seen these styles (wood look with coin op mech) of Tornadoes before (and probably should have asked sooner) what are they?  I've always disregarded them and as I mentioned before have just been looking for used brown/grey marbles and the t2000/3000. I read a really nice write up on this forum "what table should I buy".

Are they mentioned here:
Blonde 1997 - 2001 This was the first color change at Valley ... it matched their ZD-7 pool table - $400-$550
consistent all the same, plays much different than the Brown Marble and has become my least favorite of all the tables

Cherry or Mahogany 2001 - 2003 Again this was changed to match the ZD-8 pool table - $450 - $650
Fastest of all the tables and because of this can be a challenge with ball control...

 - I own this table, ball control is difficult but the speed is fun...play is improved with heat-treated rods but it doesn't really fix the control issues...however, if you can play on this table, you can play on any table...everything is easier after playing on this which in my mind makes it a good practice table

I kind of skip right past this before and they aren't really described in depth as the other tables. Sounds like the blond isn't that great. But then again this is probably in comparison to other tournament level Tornadoes and much better than a new Warrior. 

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2014, 02:56:10 AM »
Definitely don't be afraid of a Tornado coinop if it's in good shape... they are built to last a couple lifetimes and the parts have been standard since the 90s.   The coin mechanism can by easily bypassed with some simple quick temporary wood inserts, or blanks can be installed into the coin slots...

Man, those are some good prices if you can find a way to make a trip of it.. I'm jealous...Just be sure their not a total fixer upper... rods run $40ea, newer figures $5ea, wall strips handles...feet... it adds up fast.  Focus on the playfield levelness/flatness, goal post integrity, inside wall laminate separation.  its a deal breaker if it's playfield is warped or damaged.   Overall I think most will be in good shape... just ask the right questions and set the expectation on checking it's playfield with a new ball and level with the seller before you make any trip. 

As far as tournament used goes...well there are stories both ways... gooddeal/baddeal.  Most are good I think.  You want to have some control in checking out and playing the table a bit before you buy it.  There is no rule saying perfect tables show up at tournaments...

Offline papafoos

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Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2014, 10:16:08 AM »
13th Annual VVS Nebraska Foosmania
February 20-22, 2015
Garage Sports Bar & Grill - Lincoln, NE

This tournament is after the date you say you want a table, but it may be worth your time to try to contact some of the locals to see if they can help you find a table.  I think Mark Davis was trying to sell one a couple of months ago but I have no idea if he still has it.

The Nebraska  board is here:  http://www.nebraskafoosball.com/

Some of the guys are on facebook.

And don't be afraid of the cherry or blondes.  Just make sure the playfields are not warped like a lot of the 2006 batch were.

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2014, 10:34:26 AM »
I lived in Kearney for a few years and there is a pretty extensive group of foosers in North Platte, Kearney and Grand Island.  I imagine if you are in south central NE that those towns are very close.  Someone always had a Tornado they were willing to part with, they were often just uninterested in putting forth the effort to advertise and sell!  I bet the same is true now...get on Facebook and look up Tri-City Foosball, the guys on there will let you know if anything is around that is not listed publicly.  Their page looks like it doesn't get a lot of activity, but if you post something someone will respond.  Good luck!

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2014, 01:48:42 PM »
Hey that's cool. I didn't bother putting my town because didn't think anyone would know where it is anyway. I'm between Grand island and Kearney. Lived in Kearney for about 7 years.
My wife has asked to join the Facebook group for me.

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2014, 10:00:07 PM »
Hey there, thought I'd chime in with some thoughts about the Warrior table for you.  I decided to get into foosball last winter and was in the market for a table same as you.  After doing a bunch of research I wanted a Fireball first choice.  Couldn't find one.  Couldn't find an affordable Tornado either at the time.  Bought the Warrior.  Was easy to set up and it played great, loved it.  Did have one problem, the men on the 2 bar were slightly offset.  Took me a little while to notice it.  They sent me a replacement rod right away.  Great customer service.  Lots of my friends who came over to play were impressed and happy with it.  It's a good table to learn on too.  Then this summer I came across a Fireball coin op and bought it.  Seriously great table, but they're hard to come by, not cheap, and parts are hard to get for them now.  Anyway, I recently gave my Warrior table to my local brewpub and it's getting more action.  No issues.  Folks are loving it there and I am too.  I still love to play on it.  I just use a different ball on it because the Warrior ball is a little slow, but it's great to learn control with.
In your case I think the Warrior table will be fine, it's a big step up from the cheap tables you used to play on for sure.  Seems like a table that better players can respect well enough and have good times on and beginners will love it and the rod guards might be nice for your kids too.  Unless your planning on going to tournaments anytime soon, and need experience on Tornado specifically, that Warrior table seems like a fine deal for you.  I'd buy it, enjoy it, and keep an eye out for a honey of a deal on a Tornado somewhere down the line if you're still inclined that way.  Good luck!

Re: Another "what table should I get"
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2014, 10:56:21 PM »
yes... what scott said...