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Question:
In singles, how in the world do you stop a guy from scoring on you from
the five bar. I've tried various methods.. one hand on five, and one on
the goalie (and my right hand defensive 5 sucks), I've tried just knowing
where my holes are and trying to cover them when my opponent goes to shoot
from his five, but there are so many holes......
- Eric Dunn
Ok First of all understand that Singles is about Exploitation of FeaR..Its my Job to find out what it is that scares the hell out of you when we play and make you shake in your Boots to make beating you easier..hehehe...Most people that shoot 5 man shots do them to releave pressure on them selves and give the appearence that you suck so bad that I can just drop it out of the hole and Swat it to Beat you..So it puts the pressure back on you...Remember that the Ball doesnt even have to go in to be effective..I can tell pretty much right off the bat when I try a 5 man shot if someone hates them or not..they get panicy and freeze up on the rods..Most good players use them to open the easy passing lanes ..Like Robert MaReZ and TeRRy Moore and Steve Murry...ect..even Loius Cartright has been using them pretty well lately...it makes passing much easier when you hack a few Five mans at the hole....What to Do You ASk? well Remember that most players have a limited numbr of Shots they can do well from the Five bar..Terry for instance does the Middle man smash well but not the fourth man very well...its much slower and you can see the difference between the two...and its much riskier to him so he doesnt do it that much..the same for Robert Marez..So you have to use a defence that forces them to take chances Shooting the shots that are Risky for them and not thier Favorites..and make them do more than one of them before you panic and throw in the towel..there is always something you can do...When you look at the tapes..look at where they place there men at back and what holes they are leaving..usually its the fourth man Five bar Shot that they leave open but its not an easy shot...NEXT..yes learn the one hand on both back rods Defence..Ive found that even if you dont know how to use it well, it still keeps people from shooting with there 5 man...I use my middle finger and my thumb and place them on the rods, not the handles....It takes a while to get used to but doesnt everything...If that doesnt werk then try putting your left hand on the two rod instead of the golie..But you must know what your going to do with it before you get in the tournament...Dont just try it without some sort of preperation before hand...And the last step is like with all things learn to shot the shots that bother you and it will give you a better feel for defending them..... Good Luck..Todd..=)
Question:
Hi,
just wondering if you could answer a few quick questions for me..
im a fooser from fargo nd, and have been playing for a few years now. i went from stick passing to a chip on the five row. i have used it in state tourneys and some of the majors. how far will this pass get me? people always try to race it, but it is too steep to race. i usually dominate my opponant on the five row. hwow long can i milk this pass?
like many, i started out shooting a snake, but over the last year i have developed a pretty good pull. do you think i should go with one or the other, or should i continue to shoot both? pull is more fun to shoot, but i score a little higher percentage with my rollover.
i learned foos from john davis(arizona, fargo, atlanta, who knows where next)! now that he is gone, all that is left for compitition is lee bruse and he shoots a push. not very good practice for my "d". trying to get more people into the game so i have some compitition, what whould you recomend for my singles game? keep in mind that im still in school and cannot travel around the country (yet).
thanks for your time and hope to see you in mpls.
later,
-J.J. (Jeff J Winter)
DeaR J.JChiP Passing..
The only Problem with a Chip pass is that the very good players will learn to use a tilt Defence against it where the second man comes into play for blocking the angle..They bluff with the first man and point the toe forward and get the foot of the fist man right in line with the chip and it tends to make the chip go deeper and then the colapse to the wall tilting the men back and compressing the bumper to cut the angle down..and its hard to consistantly hit the chip well enough to get underneath that second man ..especially when you have a guy like Terry Moore on the other side that can really compress that bumper...Basicly if your not hitting that chip perfect, the defense" The Tilt defense" will take away both passes, wall and Chip..But its a great pass to throw in as an alternate every so often with other passes..And some people have no Clue how to block the Chip pass at all so you'll have to figure who those people are and use it when you can against them..But learn to do a brush Pass and throw the Chip in with it but make sure your Brush pass doesnt go to deep otherwise your defeting the purpose of using the two passes together...Stick passes are to inconsistant to execute..and should also be used only for add-ons to a series of Brush passes to supprise opponents and break down zone and timing defences..But they definetly serve a purpose when using all the passes together..Watch John Smith pass sometime..He uses all three together better than just about anyone..Brush, Chip, and stick pass....PuLL Shot VS RoLLover..This is a tough one since Ive seen you shoot neither..But I would contine to shoot both..Personally it takes a long time to master a pull and a rollover is much easier to master..Especially under pressure a rollover is alot easier to ececute..If I started to play for the first time today I would learn the rollover first even though I think the shot takes little skill, it does win and get the ball in the hole and thats the bottom line..
Singles: Learn everything you cant do to get better at singles..Singles is all about adapting...If your Scoring on your opponent everytime then its easy but if you dont then you have to figure out other ways to score or get the ball...Practice Five bar shots...All of them..And passing from the two rod to the five bar..and the most important thing is probably Defence when they have the ball at golie...All the good singles players are constatly practicing new zones and defences....
GooD luck J.J Todd Loffredo PS.. tell Lee Bruce Hi..And that Im still waiting for that Chess match..=) hahahahha
Question:
>ok, todd.. here is another one.. (thanx for the last one.. good stuff)
>How did you get your pull shot to the point where it is today?
>What practice techniques do you use?
>how do you get so much power behind it without exerting yourself.. I
see >other guys shoot a pull and they put every bit of energy and power
they >have into it, but when you shoot it, its pure speed, and it seems
>effortless..
>do you have a special grip?
>how bout your stance? whats the goal here..
>Do you have a hole in mind even before you look at the defense.. or
do you
>take a look at the defense, decide on a hole, and then wait for it?
>So you mentally keep track of what shots you've scored with and go back >to them until they stop it? or do you adjust each time?
>what are you looking for when you peel off that rolling long?
>Know anything about shooting a pull-kick? B-)
- Eric Dunn
AnSWeR:: My PuLLShot wasnt always so effortless, I went through many years of Arm and Shoulder Pain before I figured out that you can't Smash something over and over again reclessly and survive for a weekend of Pullshots..I learned to Stand up more and take my shoulder out of the shot..Which took alot of the waisted moving parts and energy out by accident..Then I learned that the power of the shot comes from the hips not the Shoulder..I learned this from playing golf of all things...The Pull shot is very simular to a Golf Swing in that the arm is an extension of the whip where the power Flows through and excelerates not where it is generated..When I learned the Timing between the Hip turn and the Snap of the wrist then I not only generated power effortlessly but created a smoother speed that is hidden to the defender , Unlike the Shoulder Dipping Pullshooters out there who give away thier takeoff on thier shot before the ball has even moved a micron..I wored with a Mirror o the other side of the table to Hide my Takeoff even more..and every now and then it needs to be re-learned from bad habbits just as in the golf Swing.. The Best Grip is at the end of the handle for power and at the front of the handle for controll so I guess it depends on which you need worse...Sometimes I move up on the handle becuase my Hand has a bad bone that gets bruised from Smashing longs and having the end of the handle prying on my hand..but I prefer the end of it in the Biggest Tournaments...
Stance ..This is Important..Ive seen so many good Shooters lose becuase of poor Stances..The one to me that comes to mind is Steve Murry...He is almost standing sideways when he is in his set stance to shoot and has a real problem with getting the Wifs or loosing feel...A lot of old Texas players used to shoot that way..It puts to much strain on the shoulder and takes the Hips out of the shot..Basicly its like Running uphill in a race thats on a flat track..Its good to have a little angle so you can clear the hips easily and get easy access to the power of the hips but not that much..Tracy McMillin has an Excellent Stance to Copy for Beginners...So does ToM Spear...Basicly you want to stand as if there were a Rope on your right side and someone were about to pull on the other end of it hard..You want to be in a position to be Braced for the yank of the person pulling on the other side...Now Steve Murry would get yanked across the table Quick in his stance becuase he's in a weak posistion..But Tracy and Tom would be Braced for a good Yank...
Do I have a Hole in mind? of course I do..its LONG..hehehhehe..And Im going to make the Golie prove to me that he can stay on that Long..Usually I watch the people play in a match before I Play them...That really helps becuase I can go into the match with a good Idea of what Im going to shoot right off the bat and when to shoot it..Otherwise I base everything on Experience...You see, they may want to block the long but I want to make the long..May the best man win...Im not so DuM that you can just leave the man there so you have to hide it well..And if its timable you can bet I'll see it..Offense has the advantage becuase I decide When...=) hehehe..If I know the Golie it changes things and I usually know what to look for right off the bat and how to Adjust...You get a sixth sense about when to adjust to golies..and when you think they finally have had enough of you dictating a certian hole..That just comes with experience.. AS far as a Rolling Long goes...well that ones easy..People know I Like the long and that I have a good long so in thier Vainity they think going into the match that they will "bait" me for it when I roll the ball over..This is how you say "STuPiD" hahahaha NeVER!!!, EVER!!! Bait a guys Favorite Shot when the shot is faster than you are..Thats like Standing behind a Wall of Glass and Jumping out to Bait a Guy with a Gun..What! you think your going to be able to Duck? hehehehehe...Whoops Sorry, You got Shot..hahahaha...I know Im being kinda Cocky here but Sometimes it really is a Comedy with the defences guys show me...To execute the Rolling Pull just takes Practice on tossing the ball over the right way and Shooting like anything else..Why give a Golie time to Relax when your setting up the Ball...I dont want to Give him time to do anything but Panic! =) Hope this helps you out....EricTodd L
PS..Pullkicks like Pushkicks are two easy to cut down to a percentage becuase of The Speed factor..The Defense is faster than the Shot..Not an advantage to the Shooter unless both forwards are having problems Scoring..then its an advantage..But with the Top Players Scoring is usually not a big problem..
Question:
Motovation is tough for me...Ive been playing this Game for sooooo
Long...<Sigh> >Todd, great addition to this very boring
newsgroup... You have put life
>into an otherwise dead page, thank you. You know me very well and of
>course have been through most if not all the challenges foosball has
to >offer. I feel my biggest mountain to climb in foos is the ability
to stay >motivated, you know keep the desire burning. Surely im not the
only fooser
>out there with this problem. So what do you do to keep the flame
burning?
From: kingrouie@aol.com (Kingrouie)
AKA aLouis Cartwright
ANSWER :::
For me its Simple , Dollars and cents..I figure Im there at the tournament, I may as well make as much as I can..I starve myself at Tournaments also..It seems to really help me get Mean..I woke up last tournament and Told Scottie..."ScoTTie Wydman" that is. I opened my eyes and Scott just woke up too and I said : Scott I wanna hurt someones Feelings today : He Started laughing..But I wasnt kidding..hehehehehe..I was thinking that each person stood between me and eating and I was Hungry...But it is Tough to get Motivated..I even find myself Practicing sometimes durring a match, when I should be just trying to end it as expediently as possible...Sorry I couldnt Give you more to work with.....Todd L
Dear Todd,
>Historically, the push kick shot was being used by some excellent >players, who were winning some tournaments (e.g. Ken Alwell, Mike Belz, >Steve Simon, Ric Martin, Steve Mori, Steve Boatright, Loran Wallis, and >Gary Brumley just to name a few). I realize that the pull and the >rollover have the advantage of being in front of the hole, but the push >kick has an advantage with solecting the inside game shots. What >happened to this shot's popularity? Do you see a possible resurgance of >popularity for the pushkick? I have noticed more local players in the >Pacific Northwest shooting this shot lately.
>Question two, what is your position on adapting the Tornado men to shoot >the backtoepin series? I was informed that the expense of retooling the >men prohibited that possibility. However, I was able to falsify this >premise by placing a man in a vise and carefully reshaping the foot. The
>backpin options were tremendous with just a few strokes of the file!
>This brings up point three. It is my opinion that one possible source of
>revenue for both players and the company is in parimutual betting on >matches. However, the current open style of play that emphasizes >consistency is not attractive for audience participation or observation. >I think that incorporating a man that supports backtoepins and the >ability to adjust the ball with a rollerballer or moving format would be >just the ticket to increase observer interest and to create a new profit >center for players. Your thoughts, please.
>Thanks,
>Joseph B. Stone, Shapeshifter
WeLL Joe..All those Pushkickers that you mentioned there have on thing in Common except for one of them..They all have TERRIFIC Five bars so they get more than an abundance of shots..Rick Martin was they only one that Didnt have the greatest 5-man..But he also is the only one that you couldnt Race to the long hole..Rick Martin had the Fastest pushkick Ive ever seen by a mile....Now the Problem with shooting a kick shot of any kind is 3-fold...No.1..Its very hard to shoot it for a whole tournament without shooting your arm out...unless your a Dink Freak like JeeP...No 2. is that the complexities of all the different shots, like the Slow dink, Fast dink, Middle dink, Short angle , Short kick, Middle angle, Spray middle, Tuck middle. Spray long, Square long....and then you have to pick the right shot at the right time....No 3 and most important..it can be Raced..Thats why the Rollover or Wrist-rocket is so effective, Becuase it Cannot be raced..Remember Speed makes reading a defence much simpler becuase the golie cant Bait you for more than a second or two and not at all if your ready to shoot the shot he's about to bait...."BackPin" Im for anything that helps controll..But I dont think that reshaping the foot of the man is in the near future of Tornado..=]) But I would be all for it...
and your Third comment..
I think that the only thing that would really help the sport become a Spectator Sport is to make a larger Version of the game with Bigger men and balls and bigger Table..I have thought about it often....Can you imagine the feeling of Ripping a pullshot on a 6 by 4 foot Table...With Titainum Rods and Poolball sized Foosballs...!!!..Ide love it!...heheheeHave a good one
Todd L
If anyone wants my 2 cents I'd be happy to give it but, I figure why ask me when you can ask the best. I think its great what Todd is doing. I'm enjoying reading his responses just as much as anybody. If anyone has questions I think Todd is the man to ask. David Gummeson
Reply to Gummeson:
AW, come on now Mr. Currently Reigning World Champion Singles player. Like
you don't have anything to offer. Here's a few questions for you.
(1) You have one of the best double-pump (Steven's calls it "hesitation) wall passes around. How do you get such good results. Do you hesitate the same for all players or do you up-tempo it for some rather than others.
(2) What have you done to make your uphill so crisp, efficient and unreadable.
(3) You are one of the most sportsmanlike players around. Can you explain how you approach the game of foosball mentally to be so sportsmanlike.
One of the things that impressed me most in recent foosball history was when you and Robert Mares chose to play the finals of Open Singles WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL.
How about you other Masters, are you up for some questions??
Sure, Todd is doing a great job here--in fact, I'm impressed. It makes me know just how much I suck at this game. When I can play 23 years and not think things through enough to be able to describe why the chip series is not as good as the uphill downhill series.
However, more points of view would be nice and as a promoter, it gives me ammunition to help my locals. It sounds more important when I say, "Todd Loffredo says do this" or "Dave Gummeson says do that".
If Clay keeps keeping track of the thread and you guys would consent to having it edited and reprinted in the Table Talk, I'm sure it would genterate a lot of interest in this newsgroup and foosball in general. (As well as put something of real interest in the Table Talk.)
Thanks, Todd. And thanks in advance Dave.
By the way, Harley said to say "Hi". .................................Rocky [Wilson]
Hi Rocky, I'll try & answer your questions as best as I can.1) First off both Jim & you are correct about the wall pass because they are two different passes. I actually use four different wall passes in my offense.1. The regular wall pass with no fakes or anything. 2. Hessitation wall. This is when you actually pull the ball over toward the wall then let the ball come off your man & sort of let it just float or hang in between the two men your passing between. Then after just a fraction of a second you get the ball & pull it to the wall. I know this sounds confusing & it is really much easier to show on a table. 3. Double pump wall. This one is the most difficult along with the fourth one. You pull the ball toward the wall and actually pump or swing the man like your going to pass in the lane then pull the ball to the wall. 4. Reverse wall. This one is extremely effective if you have a good brush pass. You pull the ball slowly to the wall & hover or fake behind the ball using the same motion as a brush pass. When the ball gets about a inch or two from the wall you kick it back over to the second man and go into your wall pass all in one motion.
I think the key to having a successful wall pass depends on 3 things. 1. You have to be able to work your wall passes into your other passing series smoothly so it looks the same all the way up until the point when you execute the pass. You can't do anything to give away the pass. It must blend in with your other passes. 2. You need to be able to execute a fast lane pass that also has the same set-up as your wall pass. The defender can't be able to tell the two apart. If you don't set them up the same you can bet the good players will figure it out & then they'll be able to key in on whatever your doing to that gives it away. 3. Lastly, your wall can't be raceable. You should be able to let someone put their five man 2 or 3 inches off the wall & try to race you to the wall. If they can beat you to the wall then it's not fast enough. One other important note: IT HAS TO BE CONSISTANT. If you can't pass & catch your wall a high percentage(at least 80-90%) then you probably need more practice & it would'nt be a good idea to use it alot on big points.
As far as my brush uphill goes. It is crucial that you can hit this pass with no fakes as well as with fakes. You should be able to toss the ball back and fourth and hit your uphill with no fakes. Why? Alot of the better forwards are trying to set you up for the pass they want you to hit & then diving into it. This means you need to be able to take a open passing lane quickly. By the time you throw a couple of fakes in they might have switched into the hole your passing in. Besides you can't always get someone to go where you want them to by throwing that extra hitch or fake in. In reality alot of the hitches & fakes you use are only to see how they will react to help you decide what pass you want to do. Another important part of the brush in general is being able to execute it from any point between your first two men on the five row. You want to be able to hit the up from 1, 2, or 3 inches off the wall. This is what makes the brush so effective. The defender does not know when or at point on the way over to the wall your going to pass. This is the main difference between the brush & a chip pass(angle up). On a chip pass you generally know that when the passer gets the ball in that position with their man against the wall they will either hit the chip up or go along the wall. You now have a fifty fifty chance. You either take up or wall. Knowing this you have a better chance of making something happen like spiking the pass or steeling the pass. With the brush the defender does not have the luxury of being able to wait for a certain spot & guessing one or the other. The passer can pass at any time on the way over. Mix in a good lane & wall pass & it gets extremely difficult for the oppossing defender to get into any kind of good defense.
Your third question was about sportsmanship & how I approach the game mentally. First of all thanks for the compliment but, I have my moments of meaness like just about everyone. The one thing I've always tryed to do is be fair. I'd rather lose a match then cheat. Don't get me wrong though, I'm very competitive & I don't except losing easy. I think the one thing that took me alot of years to learn is loosing your temper or getting frustrated or getting down on yourself or your partner has a very adverse effect on your game. You really need to focus ALL your concentration on the ball on the table. The minute you look back or ahead your going to have problems. It's also important to realize that all you can do is play your heart out on every ball & when the match is over if that was'nt good enough then the better person won & you need to focus on the next match until you've won the tournament or your out. As for playing without a ref at worlds all I can say is I had no doubt in my mind that Robert would play fair & I knew I was'nt going to cheat so why have a ref? The one thing that really disturbs me about alot of the top pro's & I won't name names is the whining, bickering with the ref & their opponent that goes on. Also the stalling & inability to start a match. If all the pro's would go staight to the table when their match is called flip the coin & play a fair match instead of stalling & trying to get in each others head. Then the tournaments would run much smoother. Instead you see players argueing about refs & taking forever to start their match. I think this type of behavior sets a bad example to the Rookies who are trying to learn to play. They see this & either think it's OK to do that or they are repulsed & lose alot of interest in the game. I guess I've played the game long enough to see both types of behavior & I would rather be grouped with players like Robert Mares, Todd Loffredo, Bob Maloney, Randy Stark, Steve Beine, Bobby Diaz, Mike Bowers, Louis Cartright, Adrian Zamora and others Who I think demonstrate a real professional attitude & good sportsmanship on the table. My intent is not to offend anyone but you asked the question and thats my opinion.
By the way, say hello to Harley for me. Can you e-mail me his phone number. I miss not having him around here in minnesota. I hope he's enjoying himself out there in Washington. You all have no idea what a slow typer I am. This took me forever to write. I hope it was worth reading.
HoW in the World Did BoB DiaZ get in with that Group...? That guy would Cheat his mother for a buck..hahahahhaha...I live in Florida now..He's a great guy and a good Friend but he Cheats, especially when he gets frustrated..Better get a ReF on him..=)..I actually Saw him Slide a point on JeeP after he thought JeeP jared him..he was just frustrated that he was getting Drilled by such a Smoking Shot..hehehe It was in the Stryker tournament in where they played in the Finals last year..And there was even a Ref at the table..of course it was Johnny Lott which only counts as half a ReF..hehhehhehe..I dont like to Slam people but I love to tell it like it is...Always Todd..=)
Thanks for your time
A.D. (AKA The Foosball Fanatic)
ANSWER: Well Figure I played in Three Draws a week for 10 years 52x3x10 =1560 in the first 10 years of my Foosball life..so I was 22 at that point..and for the next 5 years I played in two a week..52x2x5 =520 + 1560 = 2082 Now that puts me at age 27 and from 27 = 30 I went back to 3 a week.
52x3x3=470+2082=2552
and then I pretty much cooled it down to one a week after that..missing some here and there for the next 3 and 1/2 years..so I'll skip the half and say 52 x 1x 3 = 156+2552=2708..and from 33 til now I pretty much am lucky if I get in one a month..so..Ide say 2700 + or - 300 is pretty close..I did this in my head so don't Slam me if the numbers are a little off..~=o)MAJORS ??? Depends on what you consider a major..To me there is only one MaJor..That would be the Worlds..so my first was in 1976..and its 96 thats 20 and two of those years it was on two different tables..so add 2 more...22 <----that many
If it were Up to me my "career" would be over and I would be teaching..But unfortunetly this game doesnt provide retirement benefits and Im not a genius when it comes to making money outside of this game..So as long as I need the Money to live and my Body keeps functioning decently, I'll be playing....REALITY SuCks sometimes..But I guess I have a lot to be thankfull for...
The experience doesnt come as easy as it used to, but maybe thats attributed to the fact that you can only learn so much about an given thing..And it seems nowadays that a lot of my wins come from experience and not so much on talent...My Shot has gotten better with experience...But it seems the more you learn the more you fear and the less you know the less you fear...I would one day like to play for a year without haveing to win to make money...If I could I would try some new things that people dont do in tournaments..I throw in a few trick shots or two but have never been had a realistic Chance to play whole tournament doing that...And I love to try it sometimes....
Always.. Todd " get me over the hill" Loffredo ~[]o)
ANSWER : For Pro's thats easy..its Depth...Most Pro's get good and then quit learning..they keepp the game they have and Refuse to change it becuase you loose a little bit when you try to change things..But eventually it helps you out..Most pro players I see have only one type game. and if you beat that game then there through,,,They have no Bench to go to so to speak..What you see in the first 5 or 10 minutes is it... Some do it well but not well enough to beat all the good players..only a giant or two...ToM Yore Told me once that the reason Im so Tough to play is that I have so many different Games..He Said : "Todd You have 7 different personalities and unfotunetly there all World Champions"..hehehehe Actually it was one of the best compliments Ive ever had given to me even though he may have been Ribbing me a little bit..But it told me that I had depth..So learn how to do what works.....Thats what I do, No matter if its from a rookie or not..if it Works then it Works..SeMi Pros Lack Discipline and are into Showboating is a big problem for them..They know how to score but rarely have the depth to understand why they are scoring and if so then its very limited..They are not very quick to adjust either becuse they are consummed with thier own Mechanics....There still thinking about the things that the pros can just do instinctively..They second guess thierselves alot becuase of this lack of understanding or they just get stubborn and refuse to believe the obvious..like that someone can race the or that they give away thier shot so bad they become very baitible..usually its a Discipline problem..
ALways Todd.
Thats what its here for....But if its done,,,I want it "word for word" only spell checked....Ive had problems with Table talk re-writing my shit before and it really pisses me off....Thankyou always Todd ~[]o)
If it were Up to me my "career" would be over and I would be teaching..But unfortunetly this game doesnt provide retirement benefits and Im not a genius when it comes to making money outside of this game..So as long as I need the Money to live and my Body keeps functioning decently, I'll be playing....REALITY SuCks sometimes..But I guess I have a lot to be thankfull for...Todd Loffredo
Hell, run a foos camp. Go from region to region. Find someone with a decent size basement. Take about 10-20 people at a time. Then work with them all weekend. Show them what their doing wrong/right. Run them through drills. Have a tourney at the end. At the end play each person a match or two. Eat-sleep-drink-play foos with Todd Loffredo for one weekend. You could EASILY charge $100-$300 bucks a head for something like that. (Call it the Todd and Terry College Fund Tour. :)
Have you ever though of writing a book?
Tips, Techniques, Training guide, strategy.
Making a Video?
If done right you could make a whole series of tapes. Each one on a
different aspect of the game. That Fundamentals Video you guys made is
great, but it could have been so much more. How long did that take 2-3
days? I'll bet with the right equipment, some expertiese (In video not
foos), and some real thought put into it you could easily make a
awesome series of tapes. They would sell like nobodys business.
Look at the reponse from this thread. And cyber-foosers are in the minority.
Where do I sign up?
Clay Gump
Your post was for Todd, and I hope I'm not interrupting here, but I would like to make a few comments about the viability of a foosball instructional book.
I started writing an instructional manuscript about 20 years ago--actually a little before that. I even sent it to a publisher for evaluation. They suggested that I should get Tournament Soccer (the leader in the foosball business back then to subsidize (sp?) the project). When I called TS, I found out that Johnny Lott and Kathy Brainard were working on a manuscript for a book at the same time.
How could I compete with two top pro's when at that time I was hardly a rookie. Actually, I made my spare cash by playing local tournaments locally in Seattle (at Goldies, etc, while I was going to college) but nationally, I was an unknown.
I politely tucked my tail between my legs and put my manuscript away. It was probably best that way anyway. The manuscript sucked. Some of the advice was OK, but I really didn't know how to write, and Johnny and Kathy didn't do so well with their book--which was published anyway. When it was finally published, foosball was on its downslide in the late seventys.
Since that time, I've finished college and have been a member of a amateur writing club for about 9 years. The writing club has a number of professional writers like F.M. Busby, and Gordon Ecklund. From these guys, I've learned a lot about writing a book. It's not fun, unless you enjoy writing--in fact, it's damn hard work. More importantly, even for well known published authors like these guys, there is not a lot of money in it.
Even knowing that, about a year and a half ago. I got the wild hair to try again, so I asked Ed McCloud if it would be alright to write a manuscript entitled "Playing Foosball Tornado Style". He gave me the permission, with the caveat that he wanted to read it before I sent it to a publisher to correct "factual errors".
As of this date I have written all of 30 pages, and it is slow dreary work. I still have my 100-200 pages from the first manuscript in the desk this computer is sitting on, plus dozens and dozens, perhaps hundreds, of notes.
People have read what I've written and have enjoyed it, and really, I know what I'm talking about. After being a promoter for 7 years and a player for about 23 years, I've taught my fair share of rookies and amateurs, and I know how to explain things.
Todd, of course, has me beat all to hell in the knowledge about foos department. But getting that message in a readable form involves a lot of work that is real difficult without any assurance of profit what so ever.
I'm not trying to discourage anyone here. What Todd has written on this news group is GREAT STUFF. If he wrote a book, I would be the first in line to buy it, and would encourage my players to buy it. I bought three of the "Fundementals of Foosball" videos for my local player base (as well as a couple of boxes full of Majors videos) so that I could rent them to my players, but they really don't seem interested--a few were, but most listened with deaf ears. I don't even take them to tournaments anymore and I haven't bought the last year's videos.
If players aren't willing to watch a video, will they read a book? I doubt it, but I've read both the instructional books on foosball and I have watched the "Fundementals of Foosball" tape and most of the tournament tapes.
I don't think that Lott's book was a good instructional book--good historical information, and worthwhile instructionally, but not good instructionally. Edgell's instructional book is so old that it's actually humorous. "Fundementals of Foosball" was a great effort, but I was dissapointed with the end result.
What Todd is doing here is 10 times as good! If it was on video or in an illustrated book it would be 100 times as good.
As for me, I will continue to plod along with my little manuscript and occasionally add to it. Maybe someday I'll get the energy to really do it right.
I have been taking the stuff off this newsgroup and saving it in a file, too. With Todd's permission, I'll print it out AS IS and give it to my players. (Actually, I think he has already indicated that he'd be alright with that.)
Anyway, Clay, when Todd started doing this, I started thinking on the same lines as you. If he could have a clinic at a major, a lot of people would attend, I think too, but the logistics would be tough.
The advice Todd is giving here should damnwell be worth something--somehow, someway. I can't figure it out, though.
If Todd does something with it I'll support him 100%+. I'd go to a clinic, too. Hell, I'd sell tickets for him. A new video, sure, I'd buy it.
For now I'm glad that Todd is doing what he is doing. If he continues to do it, the news group will grow, it'll help foosball to grow, and hopefully in turn people who rely on foosball for their living like Todd (and me, remember, I operate tables) will do a little better. If more masters did the same, all the better.
Anybody who wants to make a comment about my above babbling, fire away. Todd I sure would like your opinion on what I've said.
Hopefully I've continued to keep the ball rolling by the article on the previous post.
I hope I'm not irritating others with my babbling on this newsgroup. Typing these messages is not all that much fun, and if no one is getting anything out of it, I'll stop.
......................Rocky
1st... nothing worth while is easy :)
: The advice Todd is giving here should damnwell be worth : something--somehow, someway. I can't figure it out, though.
hmmmm... put him on the "payroll".... put him in a rainbow colored van (oops wrong decade there)...... and have him tour through the local and regional tour circuit - (not the national tour// pro's only and qualified/wildcard amateurs).... heck pay him 30k+ a year, plus expenses... it's a very inexpensive - yet effective marketing vehicle for the factory and growth of the valley "combined" tour...
have a more player participant players association - who's charter is to grow the sport ... .with not 8000 foosers @ $20/year ==$160,000 per year that goes into very worthwhile major tour and newsletter etc... but do a membership drive and get 10x the number of ustsa members....8000 to 80,000 players will get you 1.6 million... heck that ought to get you a few vans.. and maybe even a few "brought to you by the USTSA" friday nite foos vidoes on espn3!
: Anybody who wants to make a comment about my above babbling, fire
babble away!... it's good stuff! :) Jim
Thats "Crazy" Jim Waterman
I think its a Good thing..The problem with a Clinic and charging for it isnt with me...its with Tornado...If they think your making money wether you deserve it or not ,they want it or a big piece of it..OR they dont want to take away from thier tournament or a list of other Problems usually ego..hehhhehehe..Sorry couldnt resist..All I know is I have a Daughter now that I havent seen and she is 5 months old and I have to go to a layer and make that happen..I want to be able to give her something and have been saving my ass off to do so. And any monies that I can make to make that happen is 100 percent a great thing!!..And if the Players and the game get something from it then all the better...Im interested and any and all Ideas you or anyone else has..Yours TrulyTodd Loffredo
A BOOK or a FUTURE ?
Actually Ive thought about writing a book many times...I have plenty of material written down and its just getting down and putting it all together....As far as a Foos Clinic goes : Perhaps its something that can be done in the near future. I used to do Clinics for Tournament Soccer and so did a few of the other players..They paid us for our time and it was a posotive thing..Tornado on the other hand has used the Top player to the brink and Im less than eager to do it for them.....They never have given the Top players the respect that they deserve..They think that were just a bunch of kids that have some talent and no brains...And they wonder why this sport is lacking so much, They just dont get it!..Theres are a lot of great players and personalities in this game and I think that they are blowing it big time. Instead of using it to thier avantage they just go on Milking there little portions of people and have no insight of what they have..FooSBaLL / Tornado or who ever is the Driving force of the Game these days Needs a "REAL PROMOTER" or Promoters Bad!!! They could learn from what Tournament Soccer...Learn from the things they did right and from the things they did wrong..But they are like a scared and conservitive and worried only about thier little piece of pie...Unless this style of thinking changes, this game is doomed to stay the way it is or die..That Fundamentals Video was Ken ALwells Idea, Terry and I put in our two cents but were very limited in time and only had a few days to do it in.. So it was lacking to say the least..But it was a step in the right direction at least..They need to get young players back in this Game and the only way to get the kids realy serious about it is to give them somthing to look up at..A goal..I always wanted to be a pro and in my young day the top players were treated well and every one wanted to be a pro..Tornado has single handedly managed to take that glamor away...And that is the future of this game..Your Game fellow Foosers..We need a Foosball association that is run by the players and NOT Tournado..What a Crock that is...So I am thinking seriously about starting one..We can do things to help this game/sport of ours but not alone..And a players orginization should be exactly that...a "PLAYERS ORGINIZATION"! ! ! !...After the World Championships this year I will be Actively working on it...I think its needed much more than a book, Dont you? I'll write more about his at a later date..I would like some of your feedback so Dont hold back and give me your honest views..Slam me if you need to or if you like the idea then speak your mind in that direction also... Todd "The hot wind from the west" Loffredo. =)
You're know for your great deadman long on the pull shot. When a defender trys to take away the long using the deadman, do you go for it, or do you look at it and say "There is only one other man covering a lot of goal, I'd better look for an option."
Your comment about "semi-pros showboating" is what brought up this question. Is trying to go around deadman showboating? Or is it good foos?
Question 2: What's your opinion of the European style front pin?
Rocky [Wilson]
ANSWER: Watch the Tape of the Worlds last year and notice the shot I choose and the defence that was givin to me on the last point of the match against BoB Diaz..If you'll notice he was in a crossover baiting a nice looking long..=) Its good to have a great long and bang away on the crossover but your thinking one dementialy..The reason that I go long alot on the crossover isnt just becuase I can Leap around a deadman de in a single bound..hehehe It's Timing pure and simple..If I see a guy in a crossover pulsing on and off it then I time it..sometimes to the long and sometimes to the middle. But the long only has one man to beat so its much easier to time...Its not the Shot..Remmeber there are a lot of great shots out there..Its the application of the shot..To go for the long just becuase the guy is in a crossover isnt very good advice..I cant tell you how much I stress this but Work on "TIMING" 1=inthemiddle,out , 2, out.3, out= BanG!! 1,out,2out= BANG!! 1,out, 2,out, 3, out, ,4, out, 5, out , 6, out,BaNG..those were all middles..out = when there man moves out to the long..or you can do it in reverse and go long 1, out , 2=BanGLonG....The number signifies when the man is going toward the middle moving away from the long..If the men Move, they can be timmed..you just have to learn to time fast so the rythum doesnt change and you have to know when theyknow your timming..and adjust accordingly...in a good match with a good golie the thinking can get deep..But you have to get to stage one to get to stage two..Then its starts to get in to Fake moves and shoulder fakes and ect...But thats getting the cart before the horse..Work on basic timing fist.
The Front European Toe pin is a decent shot but it has down sides..its real easy to get to flashy with it and it takes a lot of Discipline to shoot well enough to get to the point of being under controll and not getting to tricky..Ive seen it done well in Germany by a few players but I do think that it lacks in areas..I think if they were here more and we got a chance to face the shot more often it wouldnt be the best shot..But it wouldnt be the worst either..The one I like is when they do it with thier left hand in singles..This I think is an awsome thing to learn and I have thought about learning it..I can be done to amazement at times...Ive seen Berszner aka ReD StaR do it in a singles tournament in Chicago on the TS Brown top years back and it was incredible to say the least..Yes he won the tournament..
Always Todd L
Thanks for your advice.
Dan Rako
ANSWER :
TeRRy MoRe is left handed....What does he shooT? yes a RoLLoVer..Cause its EASY<---....that simple..But remember RoMe wasnt Built in a day..Its going to take time...Always Todd.
P>S The Rollover Doesnt move much more than an inch to each side..it just appears that it does..
Is this an illusion? Whats the scoop?
-Clay "Better programmer than fooser" Gump
Yeah it would Seem that I go Deadman alot also...But like ive preached and preached timing is everything...Almost always with a rollover one side goes much longer than the other..For them to go that long takes a special effort and isnt the nature of the shot..The shot actually sprays a tad to get into the corner...Next time you get the chance Clay go and buy a can of PLEDGE and take it to a foosball table along with your favorite rollover shooter..Then spray the area in front of his three rod untill its a foamy white and have him shoot on you about 20 times to both sides while your defending him.Give him 50 cents for every shot he scores to give him a little ego pressure to make sure he doesnt showboat it to much and you get the real shot.....As the ball travels through the pledge it will leave tracks like a tire going through snow, and the truth and the revelation of the shot will be yours to see inbeded like a picture of the past..Always Todd..