Foosball.com Forums

Michigan

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

wittw

Re: Michigan
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2005, 02:22:19 AM »
hope you dont mind all of my questions, Im still new at the whole "USTSA" and "VIFA" thing...

Do you have to be a member of the USTSA to participate in the USTSA events?  If not, does it cost more for non-members?  (the same question applies to VIFA)

Second, are there differences in how the tournaments are orginized?  Are they all double-elimination?  Is it always best 3 games out of 5 to win the match, or does it change for different tournaments?

Thanks, and Happy Foosin'
Mick Witt

wittw

Re: Michigan
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2005, 02:48:44 AM »
Just letting you guys know about the Club I was telling you on my first post here...

So far, the club has been unofficially active for a week, and already, we have 35 members signed up!  A lot of buzz is already going around with the club and talks of playing other colleges and universitites.

We've been talking about what to do for tournaments, and we figured we'd let you guys know so you can let us know if it sounds like a good idea.  Here's what we "decided"...

Break up the players in the tourney into two groups: Recreational (R-League) and Competitive (C-League).  Both will have Double-Elim. Singles and PYP Doubles, best 2 of 3 games for the match.  The only difference between the two "Leagues" is that Recreational players are allowed to spin, and have fewer rules.  That way, the people that want to spin can spin all they want, and the people that don't like spinners don't have to play them.  We also liked PYP as opposed to DYP becuase people want to play a doubles game with their friend, not some random person they might not even know.

Of the 20+ pages of rules in the Official Rule Book, we broke down the rules as follows:

*FOR RECREATIONAL (R-LEAGUE) PLAY*
1. If a goal is scored, the player last scored upon serves the ball.
2. If a ball dies or flies off the table, the ball is served by the player last scored upon.
3. No lifting or moving of the table.
4. No banging of the rods against the table walls.
5. No distractions, such as yelling, flagrant gestures, etc.

*FOR COMPETITIVE (C-LEAGUE) PLAY*
1. If a goal is scored, the player last scored upon serves the ball.
2. If a ball dies between two rods of different color, the player last scored upon serves the ball.
3. If a ball dies between two rods of the same color or a rod and the back wall, the player using those color rods may lightly nudge the ball with his/her hand to put the ball back into play.
4. If a ball flies outside the playing area (on or directly above the surface), the player last scored upon serves the ball.
5. No curve or squeeze shots.
6. No spinning of the rods.
7. No lifting or moving of the table.
8. No banging of the rods against the table walls.
9. No distractions, such as yelling, flagrant gestures, etc.
10. Have fun, and good luck!

That's all we felt we needed for the two leagues.  We also plan to purchase small trophies and plaques for rewarding players and recording winners.

In addition, we want to start a website for the club.  Once its up and running, I will post a link here so you guys can check it out.

One last thing that I found interesting...

One of the guys that signed up for the Foosball Club was talking about how his dad's a pro fooser.  I asked for the guy's name, and it turns out that the guy that signed up for the GVSU Foosball club is the son of Mike Kuzawa.  Pretty neat, eh?

All right, well, foos on!
Mick Witt

Offline SumnerH

  • *
  • 174
  • No spinning, have fun!
Re: Michigan
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2005, 01:50:26 PM »
hope you dont mind all of my questions, Im still new at the whole "USTSA" and "VIFA" thing...

Do you have to be a member of the USTSA to participate in the USTSA events?

The USTSA only runs the 3 majors (or 4/5 next year) and you do need to be in the USTSA to play anything but DYPs at the majors.  As far as I know, those are the only events that you have to be a USTSA member to play.  It costs $20 a year to be in USTSA, and you can join on the spot (so if you show up at Worlds, you can join USTSA and play--but it's cheaper to get a package deal ahead of time).

Many large regionals are USTSA-sanctioned (e.g. Texas States) but you don't have to be a USTSA member to play in them (sometimes there's a beginner's event for non-USTSA players)

None of the weekly DYPs require USTSA membership.

Quote
(the same question applies to VIFA)

You do have to be in VIFA to play VIFA leagues.  And you have to play a certain number of VIFA league events to play in the VIFA championship events held in Vegas each year.  So if you go to the March Vegas tournament, you need to be in USTSA (which anyone can join for a year for $20) to play most events, and you need to be in VIFA (which means you have to have played a certain number of sanctioned VIFA league events over the year) to play the handful of VIFA championship events.

Quote
Second, are there differences in how the tournaments are orginized?  Are they all double-elimination?  Is it always best 3 games out of 5 to win the match, or does it change for different tournaments?

It is all up to the tournament director.

Typically (but double-check first):
At a weekly DYP event, it'll be best 2 games out of 3.  Sometimes the first round or two in the loser's bracket may be best 1 game to 7 points (aka "race to 7") if that is necessary to make the tournament end on time.

At a major or regional event, open singles and doubles will generally be best 3 games out of 5 in the winner's bracket, and best 2 of 3 in the loser's bracket.  Other events will typically be best 2 of 3, possible 3/5 in open mixed or open women's events.  Sometimes rookie/amateur events will be 1 game to 7 points in the loser's bracket (sometimes they're 2/3 all the way).

Normally an event goes back to the winner's bracket format once you're playing for money--so if it's 2/3 winners, race to 7 loser's, and pays out to 3rd place then you'll be playing 2/3 in the loser's bracket finals and possibly semifinals (whether it starts when the winner would get money or when you're already in the money varies from tournament to tournament).

Often specialty events like goalie wars and forward shootout are 2/3 single-elimination.

(Nonstandard format: Some of the IFP tournaments (KY States, Superbowl of Foos, etc) use a matchplay format where you play single elimination, but each match is best 2/3 of 3/5 matches.  So you play the same opponent until one of you wins 2 3/5 matches, but if you get beat you're out of the event.  IFP tournaments have a TON of events so you still wind up playing a lot of different opponents over the weekend)

Offline snake eyes

  • 467
  • Carpe De Foos
Re: Michigan
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2005, 07:05:09 PM »
My apologies i guess i ran before i walked on my post. Sumner i used to have a smoking pull shot and gave it up for the Snake which has it's shining moments. So far the Snake has left me with a broken knuckle and alot of on and off again accuracy. As much as i like to use this shot i am considering going back to the pull BUT i have lost some of my speed and accuracy because of not using it frequently... any tips on a shooting series that might help?

Thanks

Offline SumnerH

  • *
  • 174
  • No spinning, have fun!
Re: Michigan
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2005, 11:15:16 PM »
My apologies i guess i ran before i walked on my post. Sumner i used to have a smoking pull shot and gave it up for the Snake which has it's shining moments. So far the Snake has left me with a broken knuckle and alot of on and off again accuracy. As much as i like to use this shot i am considering going back to the pull BUT i have lost some of my speed and accuracy because of not using it frequently... any tips on a shooting series that might help?

In my opinion, the snake is the easiest shot to learn to score some on good goalies, the easiest shot to learn to shoot at a high level, and the most consistent to shoot without a lot of practice.  And it's the easiest on the arm and the most likely to crap in if you misexecute.

The pull is the next easiest to learn, but is far less consistent.  Its major advantage is that you can use it from goal--it's a little different, but you're basically shooting the same stroke a lot of the time and so you can keep in practice out of goal to some extent.  Also, I think when a top pull is really "on" then it's slightly harder to block than a good snake--but when it's "off" it's a ton more blockable.

Everything else is a far more difficult prospect to learn and requires even more work to keep up with.

I'm a pull shooter.

Offline snake eyes

  • 467
  • Carpe De Foos
Re: Michigan
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2005, 01:52:34 PM »
Hey thanks for the information. It seems my snake sprays extremely wide on the pull side often missing the goal by a good 2 inches or more. I also have this problem with my pull shot. I guess maybe i should evaluate my grip? Push side no problems, snake or push. I have adopted a push kick from the first dot on the near side which a video i recently purchased showed a wrist roll for some power with some suprising results, maybe i should reconsider this for my primary shot. I realize percentage goals on push kicks unless just blinding fast are pretty slim. There are very few pro's that shoot this is that correct?

Thanks-

Offline SumnerH

  • *
  • 174
  • No spinning, have fun!
Re: Michigan
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2005, 11:54:19 AM »
Hey thanks for the information. It seems my snake sprays extremely wide on the pull side often missing the goal by a good 2 inches or more. I also have this problem with my pull shot. I guess maybe i should evaluate my grip? Push side no problems, snake or push. I have adopted a push kick from the first dot on the near side which a video i recently purchased showed a wrist roll for some power with some suprising results, maybe i should reconsider this for my primary shot. I realize percentage goals on push kicks unless just blinding fast are pretty slim. There are very few pro's that shoot this is that correct?

Last time I counted there were 4 push-kick shooting pro-masters (of 200 or so pro-masters), and all of them were over 40 years old and had turned pro on older tables or before the snake was popularized.  The only one of them who's been successful on tour recently did so after switching to a rollover.  OTOH, there's a good pro named Frank Balecha who got 3rd place in open doubles at Vegas in 2004.  He highlights one of the major issues: he came out on day one and was killing his shot, scoring all over the place.  Day 2 it was a little "off" and he had a lot more trouble scoring.

The problem is that with a shot that involves 2 men there are lots of consistency issues that make it hard to have it be "on" day-to-day, especially when you're playing at a tournament with slightly different tables than you practice on at home, etc.

I can't really help you with the snake other than saying that recoil is the key to any square shot: concentrate on having the rod wind up back in the middle after the shot rather than over on whatever side you shot toward, and that might help with the recoil.

On the pull, try to find the stance that is most comfortable when the rod is in the "long pull" position (pulled all the way toward you) and then shoot from there; that way you're always shooting into a comfort zone instead of out of it.

Offline snake eyes

  • 467
  • Carpe De Foos
Re: Michigan
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2005, 12:40:47 PM »
Hey yes i remember this guy, he is from Hawaii right? Always passes form his 2 rod to his 5 man? I think i will just work on my rollover, not many around my neck of the woods shoot this shot so it gives me an advantage. So much for that if i attend any major tournaments. I will remember the recoil comment and make sure i am hitting the ball square.

Thanks-

Offline SumnerH

  • *
  • 174
  • No spinning, have fun!
Re: Michigan
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2005, 06:33:25 PM »
Hey yes i remember this guy, he is from Hawaii right? Always passes form his 2 rod to his 5 man? I think i will just work on my rollover, not many around my neck of the woods shoot this shot so it gives me an advantage. So much for that if i attend any major tournaments. I will remember the recoil comment and make sure i am hitting the ball square

Yeah, he's the one from Hawaii.  Despite that unexpectedly high placement at Vegas he came out to the next majors that year shooting a rollover, which is telling.

That said, I do think a well-executed push-kick series is one of the most fun to watch and block, and it's one of the more fun shots to shoot.  It's just not the easy road to success (and unless you spend infinite amounts of time practicing, whatever extra practice time you put into your shot is time taken away from working on the 5-bar and other facets of the game).

wittw

Re: Michigan
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2005, 12:12:42 AM »
I've decided to join the USTSA, and I plan on going to the Tourney in Lexington, KY, in late Janurary, and possibly the tourney in Las Vegas in March.  I just have a few questions about them.

First, what should I expect in either of these tournaments?  How should I expect to do?  Should I be happy if I'm out in 3 in the Amateur Singles?

As far as doubles, should I find a partner that has a similar style to mine, or a style almost polar opposite, to throw off the opponent?  How important is chemistry when it comes to a doubles partner?

What are the best strategies for Goalie War, and Forward Shootout?

Also, when I join the USTSA, do I start with 0 points, 800 points, 1000 points, or what?

What if, in Open Singles, I'm out in 2, but the two people I was defeated by were Terry Moore and Billy Pappas?  It doesn't seem right to have the full point adjustment to go into affect if I, an ameteur, were creamed by two Pro-Masters.  Do players in this situation get a "benefit of the doubt" point adjustement, or would such a situation be considered rotten luck?  Does this ever even happen?

Are points even a very good indicator of how good a player is, or is it sometimes off by a bit?

Finally, I'd like to let you guys know about the club at GVSU.  The club is still growing, and people are getting hooked.  We've got 49 members now, and recently had our first tournament.

Here's a link to the site if you want to check it out:

http://www.angelfire.com/games6/gvsufoos

Happy Foosing!
Mick Witt

Offline SumnerH

  • *
  • 174
  • No spinning, have fun!
Re: Michigan
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2005, 01:29:15 PM »
I've decided to join the USTSA, and I plan on going to the Tourney in Lexington, KY, in late Janurary, and possibly the tourney in Las Vegas in March.  I just have a few questions about them.

The KY tournaments are not USTSA, they're IFP.  You don't have to be a USTSA member in order to play in them.

Quote
First, what should I expect in either of these tournaments?  How should I expect to do?  Should I be happy if I'm out in 3 in the Amateur Singles?

If you are very familiar with tournament style play and have experience playing tour players, you can do well even at your first major.  If you've never or rarely played real tournament players, you could get killed.  Either way you learn a _ton_ at the first major and will improve your game a lot.

My first major I did okay-ish.  I got 25th (187 players) in rookie singles and 17th (97 teams) in rookie doubles.  Basically won 5-6 matches in each event.  I had only played 1 out-of-state tournament (NC States) before that, but I'd been playing local DYPs every week for a year or two.

Quote
As far as doubles, should I find a partner that has a similar style to mine, or a style almost polar opposite, to throw off the opponent?  How important is chemistry when it comes to a doubles partner?

Chemistry mostly comes down to trust.  Partially it's finding a complimentary style--if you are in goal and do a lot of quick transition stuff, you need a partner that can cope with that.  But mostly it's finding a player you think will do their job.

I almost always go into an event expecting that I will either be staying in goal the whole time or staying up front the whole time--I know my level and my partners, and I know how we're better as a team.  If we wind up switching that's a very bad sign, it means one of us (probably whoever's up front) is struggling.

That said, I find that having a different shot (pull vs. roller) can be moderately useful if the goalie is someone who can come up out of the pits during a timeout and really hammer their shot effectively--the goalie has no idea what their options are and has been facing a different shot all game.

I find different passing series less important--even if you both brush pass, you probably do it a lot differently, different timing, etc.  Passing just naturally seems to have more variance even within a series.

But really, it's more important to get a good partner than to worry about these kinds of matchups.

Quote
What are the best strategies for Goalie War, and Forward Shootout?

The most important strategy for both of them is to not play them unless they're on the last day.

Your first major will be all about endurance management, trying to make sure you don't shoot your arm out after Amateur Singles, Am Doubles, DYP, Semipro singles, semipro doubles, open singles, open doubles, pro/am or 3500 LTD, endless pickup games, etc.

Learning how to not shoot out your arm, how to get enough sleep, deal with the tournament schedule, etc is a major part of doing well.

Goalie war is hell on the arm.

But, if you play, goalie war is all about:
1. Control the ball
2. Remember there's no forward rods so people will shoot completely different shots from what you'd actually use in a game
3. Control the ball!  Don't let it bounce off your men or off your back wall
4. Hit it HARD so that even if they block it it bounces out of their area.

Forward shootout is almost like shooting during a game.

Quote
Also, when I join the USTSA, do I start with 0 points, 800 points, 1000 points, or what?

900 points.

Quote
What if, in Open Singles, I'm out in 2, but the two people I was defeated by were Terry Moore and Billy Pappas?  It doesn't seem right to have the full point adjustment to go into affect if I, an ameteur, were creamed by two Pro-Masters.

They are using a new points system, and the details aren't out.  But word is that it's an ELO-style system (like chess uses).  In that system, your point adjustment is based on the difference between you and the ones you beat/lose to.  So if you're at 1000 points, you might get 50 points for beating another 1000-point player.  You'd only get 25 points for beating a 800-point player--but you might get 100 points for beating a 1200-point player.

So a new amateur getting clobbered by top-ranked players wouldn't lose very many points at all.

Also, you WANT to be ranked as low as possible--your entry fees are lower and you can play in more events.  You can get better partners for 3500 LTD.  There's really no advantage to having high points.

Quote
Are points even a very good indicator of how good a player is

Not really.  You can be pretty sure a 1900-point player is better than an 1100-point player, but you can't really say much about a 2400-point player vs. a 2600-point player.

And points go up kind of slowly, so you'll wind up with players who have gotten better and are playing well above their level (particularly with amateurs).

Quote
Finally, I'd like to let you guys know about the club at GVSU.  The club is still growing, and people are getting hooked.  We've got 49 members now, and recently had our first tournament.

Awesome!

wittw

Re: Michigan
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2005, 03:36:52 AM »
I have a question about personal slumps.

For the last week, my game has been just plain awful.  I've had trouble controlling the ball, my shots are nowhere near consistent, and my passing is hit-and-miss.  This has been, without a doubt, some of the worst foosball I've played in the last year.

I really don't know what's wrong with me.  I don't feel like I've been doing anything different with my playing, but it definately isnt working right now.

I imagine that, every once in a while, a pro player's game will be way off.

What is the best method for working yourself out of a foosball rut?  Do you just keep playing until the slump "works itself out", or do you stay away from the table for a while, and take a break?  Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanks
Mick Witt

Offline SumnerH

  • *
  • 174
  • No spinning, have fun!
Re: Michigan
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2005, 01:25:15 PM »
I have a question about personal slumps.

For the last week, my game has been just plain awful.  I've had trouble controlling the ball, my shots are nowhere near consistent, and my passing is hit-and-miss.  This has been, without a doubt, some of the worst foosball I've played in the last year.

I really don't know what's wrong with me.  I don't feel like I've been doing anything different with my playing, but it definately isnt working right now.

That is painful, and it happens to everyone.  One of the biggest skills in reaching pro level is learning to adjust and to cope with fluctuations in your game.

A few things to bear in mind:
1. During a match, you have to have the right mental approach.  You _know_ that you play better than that, don't try to overcorrect and execute everything perfectly--relax and try to go with options that you know are well within your capabilities to execute correctly.  Getting stressed and trying to really hit the tough stuff will make it worse.  Visualize yourself from last week when you were blazing hot, and be confident that you are the same player you were then.
2. If you're between matches, try playing a few funsy pickup games where you're not using your primary shot series.  Then once you're relaxed and have schooled some beginner with your backpin, you'll be more confident going back to the basics.
BUT, make sure you play at least one serious pickup game (with your primary stuff) before you get called back.
3. Between tournaments, take a break from what isn't working.  If you're having trouble with your brush passes, go home and practice a stick pass or shooting from goal for a few days.   Come back to your problem area once you're mentally more in a zone of "I know how to play this game" and you've loosened up with other options.
4. If all else fails, take a week off.

Re: Michigan
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2006, 07:25:36 PM »
I think that if you like to use a tick-tack series, that its worth practicing because improving your ball controll will help improve your game as much as anything. I personally have had  some success in tournaments incorporating a pull kick into a tick-tack set. I think the best thing to do is play other players with more experience, this will excellerate your game faster than anything else! as far as waiting to pay a ustsa membership, you join at your first sanctioned event(this way it lasts as long as possible before you pay again). definately practice a snake shot because it has brought players up faster than any other shot and allows you to have more durability. Having more than one shot can be helpful in matches when the goilie has your number. by the way im not a pro but I have been ranked one in the past. contact me and i'll give you all the details on tournaments in mi. 8)

Re: Michigan
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2007, 12:16:35 AM »
There are a handful of pretty decent fooser that play on Thursday nights (many are tournament players) at Bilbo's Pizza and Brewing Company 3307 Stadium Drive, Kalamazoo, MI. We usually start around 8:30 PM. Email me if you have any questions bradfrank@hotmail.com.