Topic: DAVE COURINGTON quote to HORTON (shame on u!).

[washedUPoleBastard]

Dave: "fool me once shame on you".

         "fool me twice shame on you".

         "fool me 3 times shame on me".

This was Horton's reply, cause' I saw it....the Curtain was there!

Horton said: "How about this"?

"SHAME OFF ME"!!!!!!1111.
I said: SHAME OFF ME!!!!!!!!1111.
Again: SHAME OFF ME!!!!!!!!1111.

ROMANS Chapter 8. is the best example of what Jesus has to say about shame.

The adulturous woman story we've all heard time & time again.

They wanted to STONE her for committing adultury, but see they were also trying to trick the Messiah too. However, they're plan back-fired.

Jesus said: "Is anyone of you without any sin? "If so, just go ahead and cast the 1st stone."
 The older men left and then the younger men as well.
 That's how it was in those times.

Then Jesus said to the woman: "Did any of those men CONDEMN you?
She replied: No!

Jesus said: Then neither do I. Now, go live your life and sin no more!

What if Jesus showed up in a foosball arena and Horton was going to be stoned by promotors, players ect.

What would Jesus say?
What would be the outcome?
I'd be willing to bet my million dollars that the room would be cleared and the outcome would be the same...?

How many foosball players are caring shame from an abusive child-hood?
Domestic violence?
Don't let shame keep you from going to the next level.
Don't let a feeling of inferiority in foosball skills stop you from trying harder and practicing your game.
Horton will help you!
God wants to promote you, not demote you.

Like the old saying goes:

"I'm not the man that I want to be,
but thank God I'm not the man that I use to be"

Have a great day!
Never give up on the Lord or yourself.
Thanks,
Bob C.

[TSR_Brad]

I'd like to direct everyone's attention to a recent thread on the Minnesotafoosball.com forum. Pay particular attention to the 6th post in the thread and then read the follow-up on the following page. Perhaps "Bob" could give us his thoughts on it.

http://www.minnesotafoosball.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4301

[wildcard]

I'll bet he can't without !111!1!1!!

Its been obvious all along who "Bob" really is.

[Tyler Foos]

Johnny Bob,

You really FAKED a relapse just to get a reaction? WOW! That whole 'thou shalt not lie' thingy just might keep you out of Heaven - TALK TO YOUR PASTOR before it's too late.

Take care and good luck.....................................Tyler

[bbtuna]

a "recent thread"? but the very latest post on it is Dec 2008..."recent" I suppose is relative but I was confused at first what you were trying to get at

is what you are saying that you think Johnny is a low life for faking he had a relapse and you are spreading this news to help everyone here see Johnny clearly for what he is?

this seems like more than smack talk and it makes me uncomfortable and uncertain on how to respond

[Tyler Foos]

Tuna,

I know the 'recent thread' part was not mine, but since I hopped into the dialogue let me make clear where I am coming from, just so there is no confusion.

I am rooting for Johnny on 2 specific levels - his professed faith in Jesus and his public acknowledgement of his AA participation. According to my family's Pastor, the Bible clearly states that drinking is only acceptable for Christians (those that want to be 'Christ - like') when grieving or mourning a serious loss. Outside of that, the body is a temple and alcohol is quite simply not acceptable. My suggestion above that Johnny talk with his pastor is in hopes he might get similar reenforcement.

From the AA 'big book', the basic 'how it works' part (which is read at the beginning of every AA meeting) is that those who do not recover are...usually those who are incapable of being honest. Having walked into the rooms of AA 8 1/2 years ago myself, I cringe when I hear of someone blatantly being dishonest that is also openly trying to 'recover' from alcohol (or any other) addiction, because I know how it can very quickly derail someone's efforts.

My concern for Johnny, not as a foosball player but as a human wanting to beat addiction, is that his flurry of recent posts doesn't sound consistent with his goals, and that concerns me. I wish this board had an OT because I would LOVE to participate in a thread about 12 step work, especially the critical part of seperating FAITH from RELIGION, because they are not the same, and the difference is huge towards recovering from addiction.

Thanks for your time...............................................Tyler

[bbtuna]

*ALERT* mini sermon, read at your own discretion

Tyler,

you mean like in Cana in Galilee when God in flesh , Jesus the Christ, served the best wine at the end of a wedding when people usually serve cheap wine because the guests are not so discerning at that time? - i think if God had in mind only drinking when sad or grieved, he would be at the very least setting a bad example which would sort of make him not God...you may think he was just doing it for the culture but not approving of it as a practice...that sounds like compromise another non-God trait

I suggest you be a good Berean and leave aside all the other ideas that have been thrown at you and study for yourself what God has to say on the subject in the pages of the Bible both old and new testament…no commentaries, no outside sources of any kind (history, etc), no opinions from your family’s pastor, or me…just go do a complete honest
bible-only study on your own, I think you might be surprised what you find

I am fine with your concern for Johnny, I actually like Johnny and feel bad because I know how complex the human condition is and how frail we are as people - everyone I have ever met is a study in oddity and insecurity, especially me...

•   I used to think when I was growing up that I was normal and my family was normal or average
•   As time went on I thought my parents were a bit eccentric and maybe not so average
•   Then I started to notice my friends families were each odd and eccentric too
•   Then I started to think I wasn’t so normal after all and that I had inherited my parents eccentricities
•   Then I realized that each person I met was “unique” (i.e. eccentric) when you pushed past the surface
•   Later I realized I was anything but “normal” growing up or at any time in my life and as a matter of fact I was downright weird
•   Now I think every one is weird and there is no normal which of course makes me the same as everyone or just average

You see, full circle, that’s not crazy is it?

I am such a collection of sin, contradiction, and a propensity for over-indulgence/addiction - ask me about  me and cocaine sometime and a dozen other “addictions” – as you well know, addictions aren’t limited to drugs

Johnny’s no different

[Tyler Foos]

Johnny,

Well, I disagree with the 'honesty has nothing to do with it' part, but I agree with your comments towards AA in general. I don't buy the disease bit at all either, part of the reason I mentioned I would like to see a thread about it. The first step has 2 parts - 'I am powerless over alcohol and my life has become unmanageable'. You are correct (IMHO) that AA applies more to early sobriety, or getting sober, because EVERYONE is powerless over alcohol. If you pour X amount of alcohol into a body weighing Y you will get a Z result = drunk. The important part of that step is that life has become unmanageable. Once you are manageing your life (honesty is a big part of that) and you know that while drinking you can't manage your life, you have the workable foundation to recover.

Anyway, I wish you well and thanks for the direct reply.

Tyler

[Tyler Foos]

Tuna,

Your post came up while I was typing my last reply to Johnny, then we headed out for dinner - sorry for the out of order sequence. I am not well versed in the Bible and your comments are well taken. I do know that the couseling foundation our Pastor uses as it pertains to alcohol and drugs is what I offered, I figured I'd relay it and if it helps anybody as I have witnessed it does for some members of our church, so much the better. I do appreciate your input.

Take care......................................Tyler

[Tyler Foos]

Friends,

I asked my pastor some follow up questions about the basic "God doesn't want people to drink" comments I mentioned above and I stand corrected for sounding as absolute as I did:

NLT - Pro 20:1 - Wine produces mockers; liquor leads to brawls. Whoever is led astray by drink cannot be wise.
KJV - Pro 31:6 - Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Lev 10:8 - 10:11 - And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: (It shall be) a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between clean and unclean: And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

Interesting dialogue we had and I am glad our family attends a church with a Pastor who's door is always open!

Take care...........................................Tyler

[bbtuna]

Tyler,

this will sound harsh but I don't mean it that way...

so you went from relating someone else's opinion second hand on what the Bible says about drinking to  relating someone else's opinion first hand

You quoted 3 vereses...what does this mean to you and what are the people reading the board to get out of it?  Are you trying to suggest that if someone reads those 3 vereses, out of context, that they will have an understanding of the Bible's perspective on drinking?

here is a place to start...
the Bible uses the term "wine" 238 times
it uses the phrase "strong drink" translated "beer" in some other translations 7 or 8 times
it uses the word "drunk" (or its derivitives) 63 times
it uses the world "drink" 346 times
Not all of these uses are related specifically to the topic of alcohol but this is a place to start doing a study to find out what the bible says on this subject apart from other peoples opinions and influences

[Tyler Foos]

Tuna,

In January, our Pastor started a Weds night series on building a blueprint for life centered around Jesus. When the topic of alcohol was addressed, I took some of his advice as coming more directly from the Bible than he actually meant. In his email reply to me last night, after I asked for some clarification, he corrected me on some of those specifics, and offered some scripture to support his thoughts. I posted 3 of those passages in hopes they might help someone, and (like anything else on public forums) to be skipped by anyone who doesn't care, both outcomes being fine with me. Kind of a 'can't hurt, might help' mindset. Harsh? I didn't take your comments that way at all - I was inaccurate and then corrected myself, trying to share some offerings from our Pastor. If nobody gets anything out of anything I post, that's fine with me too!

Did you just reread the Bible to give me the statistics above or did you rely on someone else's opinion/compilation?

Take care................................................Tyler

 

[Tyler Foos]

Johnny,

AMEN!!

Take care and be well.....................................Tyler

[bbtuna]

jh/Bob,

if this is really JH, I will tell you who I am but only if I can ask some real questions about the pull shot

Tyler,
do you know what a concordance is? there are online Bibles which give you the same reference as the original concorances the best known of them being Strongs.  There are many websites which offer Bible versions online where you can do a search by word or phrase and find out usage.  Every English Bible translation is available.  This provides a foundation to go do research and that way you can research Bible texts in context which is a basic element of good Bible study.

A text without context is a pretext for a prooftext

if you don't use a method like this, to do a complete study, you would have to read through the Bible each time you wanted to do a topical study and hope you didn't overlook anything.  This isn't a bad method if you have the time and discipline to do it but most people don't have either.

I have done this study before, this isn't my first rodeo (thats for you jh)

my point my man, is that you are just telling us what someone else thinks...well, sort of, with the second post, you just said he wasn't as absolute as you had suggested but you really didn't say anything more about a summary on what the Bible does say or what your Pastor says the Bible says

instead, you quote 3 Bible vereses out of hundreds on the subject...all 3 vereses are out of context...the first two context is less crucial because they are just proverbs...proverbs are generalized truths and are guidelines for practical living but aren't summaries, or any thing close to a summary, on the subject of drinking in scripture.

the 3rd verse is taken from a section of scripture which is a historical narrative and it is imperative to read it within its context...dropping it randomly out here isolated like that makes it appear the Bible is suggesting that God is telling people not to drink and if they do they will die.  This is of course not what is going on here and this is not a passage you would use to determine guidelines for the church.

[Tyler Foos]

Tuna,

Next time I'll put LOL so you can tell when I'm joking. I really didn't think you read the Bible for me last night.

I'm done on the topic.................Tyler