Topic: Brush Passing - Help!

[Anderson]

I just don't get brush passing. No matter how hard I try my pass resembles a chip. I find it terribly difficult to find the right spot to start the brush, both depth wise and horizontal position. The depth will continue to be a problem because I'm playing many tables. Horizontally, do I need to be on one side of the ball to brush in one direction, or should I be able to brush either direction regardless. It seems otherwise that there would be a tell. This series is so very frustrating to me. The videos I've seen online just don't address my issues. Please help.

[thebodygroove]

Find a pro who can show you how to do it. You can't learn the Brush by reading comments on a message board, not even by watching videos. While stuff like that can really help you with the Snake Shot, for example, it's useless if you want to know something about Brush Passing.

.

[alaskan thunder]

http://www.foosmanchu.com/instruction/passing_brush_passing.html

[PatRyan]

Anderson,

Ask me about it at the next tournament, I'd be happy to show you.  I think the next tournament I will be at is the Bonzini Tournament in Wilmington.  That would be the PERFECT place to show you, as there will be Bonzini Tournament tables, and there are also a couple of Tornado tables in that location as well.  The "sweet spot" is a little different from table to table, but the basics are the same.  I would guess since you say your brush pass looks like a chip, that you do not have enough lateral motion on the 5-man when executing the pass, and that you do not maintain contact with the ball long enough to actually "brush" the ball. 

Are you going to the Wilmington Tournament?

[Anderson]

Thanks Pat! You couldn't be more right. Yesterday I discovered two things that I'm doing wrong. First, since I will shoot from the five at times to mix it up, and considering that I'm new to brush passing, my motion was tending to be a kick with the ball leaving too soon before I could get any brush. I would then over-compensate with position to get the angle, creating a chip instead, and lateral movement would create inconsistent angles. To correct this, I found it more useful to think of myself as just back pinning the ball for control, of course then I would just stub, but on occasion I at least recognized how the ball squeezed out and the potential for later movement being added. I'm beginning to get that, but getting the ball in the "sweet" spot is now the issue. I'm working on that.

The second thing I have discovered is that I'm not putting in nearly enough lateral speed. As you know, I've been working on a backpin, and now that I have a Fireball to practice on, I've been working on brush cutbacks, specifically a push with a brush back(pull). Being right handed, I'm creating a ton of lateral movement to get that ball to cut back and that's when I noticed the difference, that I'm not coming close to that on the five. Even knowing this hasn't helped. You have so much less room for lateral movement on the five, depending on where you set the ball. It's going to take a lot of time and patience. I'll keep working on it.

You should see me in Wilmington if I don't have another spaz attack before then. At the Garner tournament I declared that I am boycotting the cork ball, a rash judgment which I have since retracted, but still. I can't stand the cork ball because I fell in love with my backpin using the ITSF B-ball. It pops out(squeezes) better and my three man banks come off the wall better, even if the wall is dead, like it is 50% of the time(I wish Bonzini would fix the dead wall issue, tighten that side strip). When the cork is brand new it works, but sometimes you just have to play with what you got, and so I'm no longer enjoying Bonzini as much as I use to. Going back to my front toe, adding a push to my strong pull would fix all that, but that's just going backwards in my opinion. We'll see.

[Anderson]

Thanks to Alaskan Thunder for the link. That helped out as well. The down-up-down-up-DOWN explains a lot about positioning and motion, and avoiding tells, while faking the opponent. Things are starting to fall into place. Finding the sweet spot on a moving target, and keeping the ball moving, are next in line. I'm finding that a brush is very similar to hover pass(illegal on a stationary ball). Keeping the ball moving and in the "sweet spot" zone is the hardest part so far.

[bbtuna]

i have shot a backpin for many years starting on TS and i never "squeeze" so i am confused as to what you are doing when you "squeeze" your BP...i have had many people who have seen me shoot over the years who think I am squeezing - i don't see it but i know others do

[Anderson]

What I mean is that if the ball is back too far, an older grippier cork ball will stub and not move forward at all. A newer cork ball is more likely to pop out; it all depends on the grip of the ball. The ITSF ball is harder(not soft) and so has more potential to pop. Even with a hard ball on other tables, if the ball is forward, the ball, table, and men are not fighting each other, but when the ball is in the back pin, there is a fight, so the ball has to squeeze between the man and the table. That is what I mean. You'll notice this less with a hard ball, but it does happen and I use this to get more lateral movement on my backpin push cut back. On Bonzini it doesn't work, because rather than moving forward the ball will fight too much and the man will just roll over the ball, even with the ITSF ball.

[bbtuna]

easiest way to practice the stroke for the brush is to practice a still ball pass...

* set the ball 2 1/2 inches from the side wall...the middle of the ball is at 2 1/2 inches
* set the ball 1 inch behind the rod...1 inch from center of the rod to middle of the ball
* start with your man on the wall and the front face of the man flush with the outside edge of the ball

from this position, try and skim over the top of the ball moving laterally so that you "brush" it aiming at the outside corner of the outside large box in front of the goal (on Tornado and I think the box dimensions on Fireball are the same)

the man doesn't have to come down on the ball little if at all (down meaning toward the table surface or what you might call vertical)...you can dip it a little on the outside edge of the ball as you finish the skim but not much

the more you dip your man or move it in a down stroke instead of a skimming lateral move, the less angle and more power you get

this is just a starting position and a way to practice the basic mechanics of it…from the same starting positions, man on the wall, you can practice a wall brush down…this move is a little different and requires more of the vertical down movement…

from the same spot you can practice both brush up and down with your man beginning hovering over the ball…then both up and down starting with the man on the far side of the ball

when you get comfortable with this, try moving your ball 1 – 1 ¼ - 1 ½ inches behind the rod

how far back can you go and still skim the ball into an angle-even with the ball in a pinned position, if your man is high enough to start, you can still skim the ball…the further back the ball gets the more skim and less vertical movement is required back to the pin position where it is entirely skim

same thing only move the ball close to the rod and see how much angle you give up, how much more vertical motion is required

you decide whats best for you
general rule:  ball further back toward pinned the steeper your angle can be but you give up some speed ball closer to under the rod the harder the pass can be hit but you give up some angle

once you get the idea and decide what kind of brusher you want to be, you can practice tossing the ball into position from a pin on the 52 man or from a tick tack….

You probably already know this but just in case someone else reads this

You know you don’t want to pass from that same position every time…you want to be able to brush up or down from anywhere…as far out as the 51 man will go away from the wall up to about 1 inch from the wall while the ball is being tossed toward the wall and as the ball is coming off the wall and rolling away from the wall

You want to be able to pass with your man in front of the ball (between wall and man), hovering straight over it, and from the far side

You want to be able to brush up or down from any starting spot, with the man starting in any position near or over the ball, with or without a fake, and with the ball rolling toward the wall and away from the wall

[PatRyan]

the man doesn't have to come down on the ball little if at all (down meaning toward the table surface or what you might call vertical)...you can dip it a little on the outside edge of the ball as you finish the skim but not much

the more you dip your man or move it in a down stroke instead of a skimming lateral move, the less angle and more power you get

This part I disagree with.  The stroke for a brush pass (IMHO) should be both lateral and forward.  The toe of the passing figure should finish the passing stroke pointed forward (if that is making sense).  By making sure you follow through on the "brushing" stroke, you maintain contact with the ball longer, and actually get more "brush" on the ball, and the pass goes deeper (and with plenty of speed). 

Just one persons opinion

[bbtuna]

i would like to be on a table with you to explore what we are saying...trying to write these things is hard but i know what i'm saying is not an opinion and is indisputable so it may be that I am describing it poorly

[jkhFoos]

Good thread. Been working on the brush pass lately. I read ,look at videos, & agree with thebodygroove that inperson is best. Not just pros though, any willing good teacher. Pat, if I could get to Wilmington(schedule conflict) I'd be in line right behind Anderson for your advice.  I still benefit from stuff you, Bruce, & Alan taught me last year. Perhaps another time. Have another great tournament.   John

[janet986w]

http://www.foosmanchu.com/instruction/passing_brush_passing.html

Such a very amazing link!
Thanks you for the post.



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