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Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?

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Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?
« on: April 22, 2011, 11:18:00 PM »
Hello. Are the following 5-man shots legal or illegal:

1. 5-man shot from a stopped ball

2. Immediate 5-man shot off the serve after the ball has touched the playing surface (without touching 2-men first)

3. A pull shot or push shot from the 5-man

4. A snake shot from the 5-man

Thank you!

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2011, 11:33:05 PM »
Any shot, as long as the ball has been served and is in play, from any player figure, is legal and valid.
Now this prevails of course on any MADE or SCORED shot.
Now... from any stopped or pinned (even a moving or seesawing pin) ball, any other failed shot must have either gone at least two rods or at least touched another player on that rod or any opposing players in between if you end up catching it, even accidentally.  In other words, if the shot failed for any reason, and you end up with the ball on your 5 or your 3, then the rules for a completed pass must have been met.
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That's according to ITSF (closest thing to international rules) and USTSA and US/North American continent play ..
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Of course, if you're in prison playing in the rehabilitation rec-room, and your opponents look vaguely familiar to some Stephen King dreams you've had... and they say they'll not kill you... just cut off a piece or two to supplement dinner,...... why yes.. if they say any shot from the 5 is illegal, THEN YES IT's ILLEGAL..
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As always and as anywhere.. house rules supersede all other rules... especially Big House rules...
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 11:39:27 PM by foozkillah »

Re: Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2011, 09:09:13 PM »
Thanks, but now I'm thoroughly confused!

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2011, 07:31:04 AM »
As I said  earlier... any shot from any figure, as long as the ball is legally in play (all of your scenarios 1 through 4 above) is legal and will count, under ITSF or tournament rules.
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However, as in some older style locations... where they frown on 5-bar shots and may physically harm you if you insist on doing so, then OF COURSE DON'T DO IT THERE! 

Offline crazy8

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Re: Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2011, 04:18:25 PM »
Another old post I have issues with...

I think we need to add that during the stopped-ball 5-rod shot attempt - the ball cannot hit the 3-rod as it goes by.  But, once it does pass the 3-rod it is fair game for anyone on any rod.

Thoughts?

Offline foozkillah

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Re: Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2011, 02:14:12 PM »
Another old post I have issues with...

I think we need to add that during the stopped-ball 5-rod shot attempt - the ball cannot hit the 3-rod as it goes by.  But, once it does pass the 3-rod it is fair game for anyone on any rod.

Thoughts?

I believe that's an old rule... "Turbo" or accelerated 5bar shots have been legal for a while... coming from a 5bar pin or set shot (stopped for all intents and purposes) and accelerated  by the 3bar (just like when you pull the trigger all the way into "Turbo" mode on your RC car radio controller gun..) seems to be well accepted.  This is all assuming the ball goes past the shooter's 3bar area into the opponent's goal area.  Mis-hit 5bar shots that glance or "skate" off a 3bar into the goal also seem to be well accepted, whether they're from a stopped ball on the 5 or not.
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Inadvertently or purposely catching a set or pinned 5bar shot with the 3bar is an illegal pass, of course.  So if the ball doesn't leave the 3bar area before coming back to be stopped by the 3bar.. it's illegal.  Loss of P to the opponents' 5bar.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 02:17:24 PM by foozkillah »

Offline crazy8

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Re: Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 01:32:39 PM »
Quote
23.1.3 It is not considered an illegal pass from the five-man rod if a stopped or pinned ball deflects off the same teamís three-man rod provided it was not caught and there was no controlled advancement by the three-man rod.
I stand corrected, but note - "no controlled advancement (turbo?).

Re: Shooting from the 5-man -- legal or illegal?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 09:34:24 PM »
Interesting.  I actually read the rules on PASSING before starting the Dec 31 thread titled "Ruling please?". Crazy8 It does seem "CONTROLLED" is the operative word.  Deflects (definition) To turn aside or cause to turn aside ,bend, or deviate--- then found out controlled advancement is 3bar hitting ball toward the goal (into it or not) period. Illegal.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 02:55:38 PM by jkhFoos »