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who started the snake shot.

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who started the snake shot.
« on: May 25, 2006, 11:33:40 AM »
H i everyone just wondering who first started the snake shot  ? a few of us were talking about it last week and just wondered who started and how it was made a legal shot ect!!! some one told me a german was the one who started this shot is this true ? anyone knows more? thank you. ::)

Offline SumnerH

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Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2006, 06:16:08 PM »
H i everyone just wondering who first started the snake shot  ? a few of us were talking about it last week and just wondered who started and how it was made a legal shot ect!!! some one told me a german was the one who started this shot is this true ? anyone knows more? thank you. ::)

Scott Haltom from North Carolina is usually the name I hear associated with it in the US.  He shot it on Tornado tour for the first time in 1987 (at the Pasadena, TX tournament) but had used it for a few years before then.  Scott called it the "wrist-rocket", and that (or the shorter "rocket") are still common names for it in North Carolina and other parts of the east coast, although the northeast took to calling it the "snake" in the late 1980s..

John Smith from Texas saw Scott shoot it at the Pasadena event and was the first major proponent in Texas, a major foosball hotbed, so he's sometimes incorrectly identified as the originator.  Terry Moore was the first to really start winning majors on a regular basis with it (John Smith won at least one I think, not sure if it was Dynamo or Tornado).

Smith is primarily a pull shooter, but at the time there were 2 World's, one on Tornado and one on Dynamo; he shot the pull on one and the snake on the other to avoid messing up the timing on his pull by shooting it on different tables.  Indeed, John looked down on the shot and was the first one to call it the "monkey".  It was with the rise of west coast shooters in the early 1990s (esp. Terry) that the term "rollover" came about, I'm not sure who came up with that.

But Scott's the first one who actually used it as a legit shot and brought it on tour for the first time.  John Smith saw him do it and became the first one to win a major, and Terry Moore brought it to a really high level.

[But it's kind of wrong to say that Scott "invented" it.  I've heard of others shooting _similar_ things ranging from a palm-roll front-pin (not wrist) going way back the early 1970s to Shoji Shinoda shooting a shot that set up like the snake but only used cutback options in the mid-1980s.  It's probable that other people had shot the snake just fooling around earlier.]

But for the German connection:
In Germany it is named after 'Jet' aka Hans-Friedrich Kircher, who is reputed to have invented the shot in the 1970s.  He was still active in 2003 (and may still be), so someone over there could ask him about it.  Boris Atha (Rob's dad) also might have info on this, I'll ask him if I see him at World's this year.

EDIT: According to David Raddack, it was also called a "forearm toe" in the early days in Texas.  I've never heard that before, all the other ones I've heard before and I've only been playing since about 2001.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2006, 06:33:25 PM by SumnerH »

Offline SumnerH

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Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2006, 06:20:49 PM »
As far as how it became legal, here's a quote from Charles Mackintosh (tour head official at the Pasadena event it debuted on); essentially, the officials got together and decided that it didn't violate any existing rules so it was legal:

Quote
The tour debut was in Pasadena TX in January 1987 at the "World's 2, continuation" tournament held at Dave C's "Tornado Shelter.  Eleven of us went to that tournament from NC.  The first time Scott shot the rocket all hell broke loose.  You see, I was the tour "head official" at the time and being from NC like Scott put me on the hot seat, especially with Dave and the established pros who had (GET THIS) NEVER SEEN THE SHOT!  After much arguement THE RULES PREVAILED not opinion, and the shot was deemed legal. Scott went on to finish 5th in Expert singles w/ the rocket.  By the end of the tourney EVERYONE WAS TRYING TO DO IT.

Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2006, 09:18:33 AM »
Thank you i think i know this jet guy i met him in ireland dublin on a tournament he was using masking tape (used by spray painters on cars ) on the handles. tell you one think hes got a good crispy snake shot and he swears alot in german when he misses or loses the ball. its got to be the same guy, well thank you again for all the help and information.

Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2006, 04:04:00 PM »
I heard a story about one man named Friedrich Kircher from germany who "invented" the snake shot.

anyone heard of him??

Offline SumnerH

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Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2006, 03:58:05 PM »
I heard a story about one man named Friedrich Kircher from germany who "invented" the snake shot.

anyone heard of him??

See my post above, which includes:

Quote
In Germany it is named after 'Jet' aka Hans-Friedrich Kircher, who is reputed to have invented the shot in the 1970s.  He was still active in 2003 (and may still be), so someone over there could ask him about it.  Boris Atha (Rob's dad) also might have info on this, I'll ask him if I see him at World's this year.

Offline Mase

Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2006, 05:56:14 PM »
Jet invented the snake in the 70's i have had the pleasure of partnerign him in the UK masters in the DYP and he carried me to 5th. Good player and nice guy!!

Offline grandmaster

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Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2007, 06:43:30 PM »
The question arises if something was invented, what need did it fufill? After all, necessity is the mother of invention, isn't it? First of all the snake is a pin shot, and then it is a front ( of the bar, to the right, towards the goal ) pin or a HEEL, repeat, HEEL shot. This may sound simple but most people mistakenly call it a front toe shot. Adrian Hoines is the inventor of the heel pin pull/reverse push series in the very early 1960's and he is still around to tell the story. Big Jim "RED" Zellick from Montana went to Europe in the 70's with a very nasty version of the front pin or HEEL shot as the promo team forward for Tournament Soccer. Rumour had it at the time that Jim never got blocked once on his long and made a laughingstock of Euopean defenses who had never dealt with "Big Gun" American set shot type offenses. Is the rollover spin shot from the front pin a response to Red Zellick's incredible promo tour of Europe in the 70's? Ask yourself why are the Europeans so fond of the HEEL pin shot? Before Zellick's tour, they all never even stopped the ball. The American set shot game was boring and stupid. Who enjoys stopping the ball? Guys who win money at tournaments that's who.

Offline SumnerH

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Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2007, 02:28:00 PM »
The question arises if something was invented, what need did it fufill? After all, necessity is the mother of invention, isn't it? First of all the snake is a pin shot, and then it is a front ( of the bar, to the right, towards the goal ) pin or a HEEL, repeat, HEEL shot. This may sound simple but most people mistakenly call it a front toe shot.

That's what "toe shot" means these days.  Complaining about that is like complaining when people use the word "you" when they're only refering to one person; it may have been wrong at one point, but language evolves and if you walk around saying "thou" you aren't more correct you're just more outdated--the purpose of language is to communicate, which is best done by using the same definitions as everyone else.

And yeah, the men's toes would be on the front of the foot, so they'd contact the ball if it were a back-pin; it's just one of those things where the term means something (like a "knuckleball" in baseball, which in modern times is thrown off the fingertips and not the knuckles).

Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2008, 10:54:49 AM »
According to himself (and confirmed in an interview by Todd Loffredo), Friedrich Kircher invented the Snake Shot back in the 70s as a result of a wrist injury that made it hard for him to use the standard techniques. He is still playing tournaments today.

Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2008, 05:25:00 PM »
here is the story. no the history of the snake shot.
Hans Friedrich Kirchner was a good fooser in the early 60`s.
But he had an accident with his wrist and hand. He tried a lot of diffrent shots, in a short time
he found a shot he could do (with his handicap) precise and faster than before. The snake shot was born.
He played at a lot of tournaments in germany. The German Foosball Federation was the first which alouded this shot.
I don`t know if he is still playing. But a couple month ago i played in a club in the near of Frankfurt.
There was a fooser in his early 50s who told me this story. He told me a lot more. But i was there to play foosball
and not learning something about foos history. I try to contact him and ask him for all the facts...

cya

ps: I don`t know if this is the real story from the snake shot. But i don`t think that a 50 year old men should lie he was a
nice old fooser who spoke about the "old time".


 

Offline PatRyan

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Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2008, 05:31:10 PM »
Hans Freidrich-Kirchner (AKA "Jet") Is still playing.  I played with him in Open Doubles at the Tornado Worlds in 2007.  And I saw him 2 weks ago at the Bonzini Worlds in Paris.  And he is still shooting the roll-over  :D



Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2008, 04:15:33 AM »
Sure he still plays !
I lost to him 2 years ago at the german championships leading 4-0 in the final game...  :'(

He's the only one I saw shooting snake-bankshots from the 2 row !
You can actually see him do that on the Tecball worlds dvds from insidefoos  ;)

Offline grandmaster

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Re: who started the snake shot.
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2009, 05:14:18 PM »
OK then, Jet is "the man". Thank you to all the foosers who replied to my inquiry.
Oly