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Probably a dumb question but,,,

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Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2008, 03:33:52 AM »
It was my understanding that each Kicker club would have their specified table, and when they played a match in another town, they'd have to play on that towns home table.

As far as I know, that is still so.

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I should have kept in contact with some of my foosball buddies from my time over there, because I'm actually very interested in the Fireball table that was released recently in Germany. Seems to be very similar to the Warrior table here. It's a 1 goalie system with tornado style feet.

Some information, along with some pics, can be found on their website: http://fireball-kicker.de/webshop/

The idea behind the Fireball is to have feet on the men that allow Tornado-style playing as well as the common European pinning techniques. The developers (two German pro-masters) wanted to use the Tornado ball, which is much more robust and rolls more true than the lightweight balls of the German L-tables, and still be able to execute a consistent Euro Pin. They achieved this by designing feet that pin the ball with a face instead of an edge. As a result, you can play Tic Tacs and Pull Shots like on a Tornado an Euro Pins like on a German table (not exactly, that is, but much easier than on a Tornado).

The table has hollow rods, weighs 250lbs and is reported to be build to last even under aggressive conditions. I'll get the chance to play on one next week, and I'll let you know what it feels like, in case you're interested.

Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2008, 10:03:30 AM »
Yeah, I'm pretty curious how the table plays. Seems like a very good concept, a fusion of play styles merging onto one table.       I really enjoyed the format and team play that the german foosball leagues developed, however it's simply not as practical to have such a format in the U.S where everybody is so far spread out. Hell I can't even find a table and somebody to play with, much less a league.

Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #32 on: August 09, 2008, 03:46:59 AM »
to "bank" is to hit the ball off a wall when you shoot...like using a bumper in pool

most common is from goalie position (the 2 bar) and then some from the forward position (3 bar)

some tables are built in such a way that they are easier to bank on than other tables and that is what comes up from time to time in this forum

Tornado, the table most used in the US for competition, has never been very good for for banking (so say the vast majority of people although there are one or two that say otherwise)...many of us though have played on tables where you could bank with skill and those of us who play on Tornado miss it

Thanks BB.

I trained a little bit on the bankshot on my Tornado at home and at first it seemed impossible to do because when I tried to shoot a hard bankball, I noticed that I hit the 5-rod in the air. Then I started to put less power in the shot until I found the wright speed so the ball wasn't lifted and stay below the rods and went into the goal. So it's possible to do it good on a Tornado but you have to do it with a controlled speed.

Greetings,

Fastert

Offline bbtuna

  • 1465
  • TS, Dynamo, Tornado, Warrior, & Fireball
Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #33 on: August 09, 2008, 10:55:48 AM »
well, i have had this discussion on this and the other forum a number of times before...you were doing banks at slower speeds but I would be willing to bet you couldn't do 18-19 out of 20 in a row...plus you need to be able to do them at varying speeds from different spots both ways with both men

there are a handful of people who, at least one on this forum, say they can do banks consistently on Tordando and that all it takes is some time

I would have to see it to believe it but lets say there are one or two in the country who can, they are the exception

the rule is, because of the shape of the man's foot, the edge, which is not straight-the leading edge as well as the fact that the front of the foot has a crooked line ---\ and the white tape which the ball jumps up when it runs up the hill

you can not do banks on the current Tornado models...this is the general principle but like anything, you can always have an exception but the exception doesn't disprove the general principle



Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2008, 01:19:03 PM »
On this moment I have to agree with you, but.....I will train further and try to be an exception... ;)

Thanx for the info BB. :)

Greetings Fastert

Offline bbtuna

  • 1465
  • TS, Dynamo, Tornado, Warrior, & Fireball
Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2008, 05:37:15 PM »
banks are really fun-it will be great when the primary tournament table in the US is good for banks - i am looking forward to hit very much

Offline foozkillah

  • 764
  • Sure Ain't A Livin'
Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2008, 07:55:20 PM »
to "bank" is to hit the ball off a wall when you shoot...like using a bumper in pool.  Most common is from goalie position (the 2 bar) and then some from the forward position (3 bar).  Some tables are built in such a way that they are easier to bank on than other tables and that is what comes up from time to time in this forum.   Tornado, the table most used in the US for competition, has never been very good for for banking (so say the vast majority of people although there are one or two that say otherwise)...many of us though have played on tables where you could bank with skill and those of us who play on Tornado miss it. 

As I explained in another thread, any table with lowered feet, Tornado, Shelti, Warrior or other table, where the bottom of the feet are lower than the midpoint of the ball, will make banking less effective, due to the physics.

The allowable area for a banked ball at or near the floor (skipping) is definitely decreased, because a ball has to clear a Tornado player's feet with no tolerance!  You cannot fit from the side any ball underneath the player unless the player's at a very high angle!

With narrower feet (Dynamo, TS, Garlando, Bonzini, P4P, etc..) and being further from the floor, the ball has extra area and clearance to go almost 1/6 under a player!  You can shoot great bank shots on a Tornado or similarly footed table, but you have less open area under the 3bar, 2bar and especially the 5bar to get through. Do the math.  Imagine an area under the 5bar spanning the width of the table, and the height of the foosball.  The clearance with the players (straight down especially - hint to those defending banking insane maniac goalkeepers) is a lot less under Tornado and similar players than the old Dynamo or TS players, especially with the wider squared off Tornado feet.

That's also why good zones work even more effectively on Tornado and similarly footed tables!  The best dead-on bankers and those who have 3-4 options will still get banks through, but it certainly is harder.  And the more practice and hours it needs to learn pinpoint banking, not to mention the adjustment to having to make sure you hit above the midpoint or right on it.

Improving players will naturally see more improvement with "straight through" shots much more quickly.  So of course the goalkeepers will concentrate on basic shots with the stiffer and more reliable Tornado-type players, not to mention passing to the forward, where the larger goal and the dominance of today's rollovers and pull shots makes the advantage that of clearing for a higher percentage to the forward. 

The only effective and most common bank I have seen employed on tables like Tornado is the 5bar bank to the near goal corner.  A shorter distance, with less skipping to get fouled up by one of the outer goalkeeper rods, once the the 5bar has been cleared.  The goalkeeper's 2bar players are also naturally set to prevent the straight-in shot, forcing the other 2bar player way out of the bank line.  Alas, most defenders get repulsed by it because they believe most of them are inadvertent and "slop".  This can be seen with mis-hits when doing an off-the-wall brush down from the near or far 5bar player, which can turn easily into a bank into the near goal corner.  Ever seen that?  Sound familiar?

Offline bbtuna

  • 1465
  • TS, Dynamo, Tornado, Warrior, & Fireball
Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #37 on: August 09, 2008, 10:20:46 PM »
the reason tornado is hard to do consistent bank shots is because the edge of the ball is rounded and has sort of 7 edge and because the tape down the edge makes the ball jump

it has been proven that if you fix the edge of the man and the white strip (lower or remove it) that you can do banks very effectively

if the man is too low, which I do not believe is the issue, than you could just strike the ball when the ball is a little further back

a man with the foot higher might give you more flexibility on the ball positioning, I couldn't say for sure but the logic seems strong

Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2008, 10:33:45 PM »
I only shoot bank shots from the two rod. I used to be able to play two different banks with some precision. One would double as a pass, where I wouldn't bank the ball, but try to brush it through the wall hole on the 5 rod.

5 days until I get my table. Then I'm going to start practicing up a storm. My roommate is either going to love or hate the sound of the ball rattling the back of the goal... The ideal situation is I could get him hooked on Foosball!

Offline Will17

  • 264
Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2008, 02:35:39 AM »
have friends over and play on his team against other people, that way he can taste victory first and decide to like it(assuming you are better than the friends you invite over)

Re: Probably a dumb question but,,,
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2008, 09:35:42 AM »
I've asked everyone I work with, and a few other people if they play. I've only had two biters who said, "I play some foosball." Of course the following question is, "do you spin the rods". When the answer is no, then I say that they should come over and play.

I manage a restaurant, and my plan is that if I ever get a warrior table on top of the tornado table I'm getting next week, is to put that table at the restaurant in the break room. If employees wanna play on their day off, I could probably convince the owners to just let them come and play. Although I suppose a foosball table could be considered a HUGE distraction from my actual job at hand, but I'm a low salaried employee who works 55 hours a week during the busy season, and 35 in the slower.

Anybody have any other tips on spreading the foos bug?