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snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2009, 11:48:47 AM »
I won't lie to you, it's awkward. I seem to hit it OK when I try less than when I try more power. The timing and speed between the toss and stroke, going that long,is something good for me to delve into. It can only help my game. One thing that I really like about setting up so far over, so that there is only room for a half rock from the center of the ball, is that the straight is even more a vulnerability for the goalie. It is set up even farther over than the pull position when the man is tight against the ball and yet the straight can still be hit from there. This means if you can hit that then the goalie has to open up more and then things get easier. I find it easier to do the pull side but I will work on the push also, like the kid in the video. So SJ, are you trying it too or do you use it? If so what do think about it?

Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2009, 02:29:20 PM »
Actually, I´m the "kid" from the Video :)
So far, I know only 3 people who are shooting this as a main shot.
My doubles partner came up with it first. You see him enter the vid for a handclap at 18 seconds I think. I was shooting snake from the middle at that time. But I´ve always been a push person, so I never figured out how to shoot a good Pullside (you can ask Billy about it, he makes fun of my pullside at every opportunity he gets). So I played around with the long snake. I was into it before I could even shoot at 3/4 of the goal.

The long shot wasn´t what made me stick to this shot at once. Like you also figured out quite fast, is that the straight is the killer option. It´s the fastest, and yet easiest shot to execute on a foosball table. And you can hit it deadbar 100% of the time. And it´s the only shot you can hit deadbar on a Lehmacher constantly, something that most goalies don´t even know. Even better, is that the hole is really easy to see because it´s on your side. Most goalies guard it most of the time when defending this shot. By this, the rest of the goal get´s really huge.

I also added a John Wayne, a way to hit the straight straight or at an angle without moving the ball and some kind of dink.

I have the most problems with shooting a long really square, as you can see in the video. I´m now shooting one buffer holes quite constantly, but I´d like to get to one finger. But most of the time I´m using a spray to the corner like the pullshooters, cause most people won´t use a reverse D because it´s too easy to angle the ball in between from this setup.

If you practice on a Tornado it´s probably a little bit harder to start with, but it´s possible.

Just practice up :)

Greets,
    Jonny

P.S.: Tim and I didn´t really want to compare snake vs. pull. But he was constantly making fun of my shot, so I had to call him out.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 02:32:17 PM by SpinningJoe »

Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2009, 08:20:57 PM »
This is too cool! I mean that! I could see it all over your face that you were in a good place and that other guy was in trouble. And I really like how you worked it out. After watching it I saw how it could be a real effective approach. I actually do favor the push but when I tried both the push and pull the pull somehow seemed easier to do the long but I will learn both, it's just how I'm built. And yes I found that the long tended to spray a bit. I did notice though that if you had a somewhat good long that your opponent would be in serious trouble. I appreciate the pointers and I will work on it. But I really would like you to know how much I enjoyed watching you and want to tell you that you got something going on Johnny!  I bet I hear more about you in the future. Thanks for the response. :D
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 08:32:27 PM by Old Meister »

Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009, 08:01:03 AM »
Thanks OM.
I´m a constant reader of this board for a quite a while now and enjoyed many of your posts. I´m going to be in Dallas this year, so if you make it I´d be looking forward to meeting you, maybe exchanging some knowledge about the long snake shot :)
Greets,
    Jonny

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2009, 06:23:19 AM »
No problem blockinging the snake but I SUCK shooting it. Seems hard to start with the wrist!?
Just curious OM, how is the long snake working out for you?

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2009, 06:42:13 AM »
Thanks OM.
I´m a constant reader of this board for a quite a while now and enjoyed many of your posts. I´m going to be in Dallas this year, so if you make it I´d be looking forward to meeting you, maybe exchanging some knowledge about the long snake shot :)
Greets,
    Jonny
« Last Edit: February 06, 2009, 06:56:12 AM by the spray »

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2009, 06:50:35 AM »
oyeh!!!
He said it was because his Pull Shot was too slow.

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2009, 06:59:29 AM »
OK blocking it SUCK shooting it. Feels odd starting from the wrist.
I won't lie to you, it's awkward. I seem to hit it OK when I try less than when I try more power. The timing and speed between the toss and stroke, going that long,is something good for me to delve into. It can only help my game. One thing that I really like about setting up so far over, so that there is only room for a half rock from the center of the ball, is that the straight is even more a vulnerability for the goalie. It is set up even farther over than the pull position when the man is tight against the ball and yet the straight can still be hit from there. This means if you can hit that then the goalie has to open up more and then things get easier. I find it easier to do the pull side but I will work on the push also, like the kid in the video. So SJ, are you trying it too or do you use it? If so what do think about it?

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2009, 07:05:13 AM »
yeah when i was leaving the game he was just another San Diegoite we used to beat on!!!
because it worked and it wasn't made illegal - the rest is history and now it is even being done in Europe on the "other" tables

I assume you played back in the day and are now just getting back into things or are you just hanging on to your bias and bitterness?

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2009, 07:29:19 AM »
this is about the dumbest reply i have ever had. are you camparing setting the pull shot rule to the snake complaints? started in 1979 and didnt hear new or older players complain about setting the pull!? stopped in 1993 and from then til now still hearing complaints about the snake so GTFO
:'(
 :'(
 :'(

Change with the times or GTFO. Did you complain when they started using a set pull in the '70's?


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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2009, 07:36:05 AM »
rollover causes pain in the back and wrist too but know what you mean
And I don't know about the rest of you, but I have great and awesome friends whom I used to play years with.  I KNOW they loved and lived foosball as much as I did, if not more.

But so many fell to arthritic or ruined wrists, elbows and shoulders, ... bad backs too.  Pain that might have started with old school caveman power foosball, or was at the very least completely aggravated by it.  They can't play anymore...  they didn't have a rollover to go to early enough. And you can still see it in their eyes when you talk about foosing... something they always loved that they just can't do anymore...

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2009, 07:42:00 AM »
sarcastic but half right played in the day but not bitter. sarcasim is a sign of bitterness though ease up
because it worked and it wasn't made illegal - the rest is history and now it is even being done in Europe on the "other" tables

I assume you played back in the day and are now just getting back into things or are you just hanging on to your bias and bitterness?

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2009, 07:43:35 AM »
Correct
Just MHO, but I have been playing for 35 years, and have shot a pull since I started playing. What I am running into is old body break down. To many miles, and to much hard work. I can do my pull shot effectively for part of a weekend, but there comes a point that I loose my consistancy. I have been working on the rollover. What I am finding is that it takes a lot of practice to be acurate and consistant with this shot, but it does not take the physical toll on the arm that the pull shot does. I played at Bart-O last year and decided to shoot a push-kick instead of the pull as my primary shot, and was able to play at a high level for the whole weekend. To me adding the rollover will give me another option, and help me last the weekend at big tournaments. I think that is probably the biggest reason Terry went to it exclusively. The other thing is, you can't deny the results.

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Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2009, 07:54:51 AM »
Wrong Mr. relate all to sports yes they were kicking not spinning and he wasnt even a player then never the less a major player
Terry Moore happened to be the first major player to understand and select a main offensive shot taking advantage of the moment of the metal rods, utilizing more power and speed without loss of target control.  The same way Hans Friedrich Kircher did when he couldn't shoot with his hand after his injury.

It's just another logical progression in the game, utilizing spin and physics.  Pretty much the same progression as when the pull shot was first heavily utilized.  Unless you believe that they were doing stroke pulls and pushes, instead of just kicks when foosball tables first appeared.  The same probably applies to hockey, and to pitching in baseball.  It never ruined the game, but instead enhanced it.  It allows those who never figured out the proper nonrecoil pull and thereby damaged their musculature, nerves and tendons, to continue playing for years, without loss of accuracy or power.  And their sons AND DAUGHTERS who won't have to go through neanderthal pain and hardship to get good at their parents' sport.

It only ruins those who never respected progress or new techniques and who still dream of going back to their fantasy world for a perpetual second chance.  Same guys who keep thinking the championship NFL team of their childhoods 30 years ago should survive a 16game season today against modern teams and still win out.  Most well-adjusted older players who still have the competitive fire enjoy the newness of learning another shot like the rollover, which has evolved into its own series.  And enjoy learning how to block another deadly option, like learning to hit or pitch curve balls in the American League after years of fastball variants in the National League, or vice versa.

Even real field soccer now allows vulcanized or grip striping on strikers' shoes, which allows previously impossible curved and sliding strikes that were unthinkable a couple of decades back.  Customized or standardized rubber snap-on booties or wraps for selected foosball figures may be the next technological thing coming.  We could call them fbooties or ftoes.

Re: snake, monkey, rollover,flailing spin whatever you want to call it.
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2009, 08:01:28 AM »
this is about the dumbest reply i have ever had. are you camparing setting the pull shot rule to the snake complaints? started in 1979 and didnt hear new or older players complain about setting the pull!? stopped in 1993 and from then til now still hearing complaints about the snake so GTFO

I've read in another forum that they used to call the Pull Shot "Monkey Shot" when it came up, because the traditionalists thought you could teach a monkey how to do it. Note that neither Pull nor Snake ever where subject matters of a serious discussion since it's perfectly clear they are legal, effective techniques. There were, however, people who started whining about them because they felt unable to adjust. Those people want things they can't handle to be regarded as being wrong, illegal, or, if that doesn't help them, gay.

There's a name for those people which I'm not going to quote here.

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