Topic: Simplifying my game

[Old Meister]

It's not easy being me,,, The path I chose in my TS days was to push the limits with speed and shot selection, reversals and fakes. Going for impromptu play, off the cuff, creative shots on the fly. I really have hated what Tornado tables have caused me to bear, or lose, in that direction. Basically it is a dead end direction and I'm aware of that and really unhappy about it. So I must simplify my game, knuckle under in order to be successful. Is there any wonder why I promote Warrior? So I now practice sterile, uninspired play, Texas style I guess. I'm going to do everything I can to help Brendan with his vision as what he has done is once again made it possible for AMERICAN FOOSBALL to happen.  I call it American foosball as every area of the country had it's own style of play in the 70's and with the advent of Tornado the table was designed to support the Texas style only. Well look where the pro masters are located, go figure,,, So if I want to compete in a meaningful fashion I have to go simple. Something is lost, just saying,,,

[papafoos]

Congratulations.  You've learned something I learned 30+ years ago.

Tournament foosball is a serious endevour.  Bar play is fun.  I'm not saying tournament foosball isn't fun, but rather it's a more sterile game.  I don't enjoy "funsy games" nearly as much as tournament style.  I have a difficult time playing if it's not a serious affair. (Come to think of it, the last few years I have a difficult time anyway)

Even though I enjoy trying a lot of different shots, I still prefer the tournament style more.  There are times when I'm getting blown out where I'll try some kind of oddball shot.  If I'm blowing someone out I won't do it unless I know them well enough that they won't think I'm being disrespectful.  That's the promoter side of me.

The gist of it is: have fun, but realize the difference in style and learn to appreciate why the top players keep it simple.

[wildcard]

Try going hybrid. If you are like me, you had a pretty good 3bar with a large shot selection that had better players scrambling to block and got a rep as a "hacker". I still LOVE to mix up a wide variety of shots from the 3bar and 2bar, but have lately been working seriously on my 5bar to increase my possession time on the 3bar. So concentrate "Texas style" on the 5bar to increase your possession times on the 3bar, but then have fun with your shot selections on the 3bar, just like in the old TS days. Keep it fun while at the same time trying to improve. My motto is, if it isn't fun, its a job--and who wants to pay to go to a job that isn't any fun?

[alaskan thunder]

Do you want to win or just have fun? If you want to win you need to play "tight" foosball. Watch any professional sport and you will see that the top players are masters of repetition and improvisation takes a back seat. Think Nadal in tennis or Kobe in basketball, they both probably have nasty shots that they use when they are practicing but when it comes to be match time you will rarely see anything like a trick shot. Not to say that they never do them they very rarely do. If you don't care about winning (as much anyways) then you have a lot more options to play loosely.

[Old Meister]

Foos work,,, I understand but I don't have to like it.

[marty]

OM  i no where your comeing from  there was video on utube awile back i think it was tec ball  table  with frederic collignon  and  jamal allalou playing 2 other german players i think any way they open the game up with a bank from a forword   then if i remember right a near man angle our some thing like that then fred fires off a cople of blazeing push kicks our pull kicks can'nt remember  with jamal ending the game with a airial from goal  i remember thinking to my self now thats how i remember foosball back in the day it was a fun video clip to watch  in thinking about it i think it was a free sample from jim stevens  inside foos ha i think i well order the video 

[Old Meister]

I've seen that video Marty, sweet! I think I will practice the minimalistic game mostly but then take a break once in a while and let the stuff fly so that I can have fun when I get on Warrior tables.

[raithza]

Yeah, it's what the snake shot does to the game and why I don't like it (though same goes for a set-up pullshot).  But I'll stick to my style of shooting, really satisfying beating a 1-shot snaker with 5 goals each shot differently
buut at the same time there's no point in denying that it is the superior playstyle, although on our garlando's you can compete with a more innovative style, i don't think it's possible on tornado's.

[pullshot]

Well I am one of those pullshot players (from the 70's) you speak of. To be honest I don't remember ever losing to someone shooting 5 different shots. I shot a pull shot and have not seen many ever stop it. It's not my only shot but I won with a pullshot and I do believe winning is the object. Now if someone had stopped my pullshot I would have tried something different. In my many years of experience the people that didn't like the pullshot were the ones getting smoked by it and couldn't shoot it. It was very satisfying winning tournament after tournament with just one shot no one could stop....

[bbtuna]

notice how the US players are beginning to dominate, as most thought they would from the outset, now that they have had time on the different tables...notice more Euro players are moving to pulls and rollovers and none the other way...even after 13 years of domination with Fred and his Euro pin, no great players, or up and coming greats in the US have adopted it where within a year of the rollover coming out, players, old and new, were flocking to it

tournament play is about strategy and mental toughness and being able to execute mindlessly when pressure is at its highest...simplicity and repetition are the foundation for these things...this was discovered in the US in the early 70's and this approach has dominated top tournament play ever since

the pull shot has 35 years as a proven winner...simple maybe on the surface but effective in any circumstance where a table will allow you to set up the ball and the rollover has similiar consistant capabilies

however, I contend that neither shot is simple when developed with all the options and finesse they are capable of

yea, the pull is rolled into place and shoots one of 5 holes...on the surface but there is timing and ball position, fakes, speed changes, cut backs, etc.  On the straight alone I can think off the top of my head of 4 versions of the straight without adding fakes, timing, or body movement

and then if you add a rolling pull into the mix, as Todd does, and all the different ways and spots you can shoot this from, then the shot becomes super complex and requires a serious committment of time and energy to master all these options so that you can shoot them under the greatest pressure so that you can rely on them

the rollover has just as many with a simple rock or stationary spot in the center before adding in the crazy complexity of a walking RO like Tony has

to master either of these, to have shot them on all kinds of defenses under all kinds of situations, learning the lessons needed to be competitive at all times, at all levels, and under all conditions is every bit as varied and complex in reality as any random tic tac variety shooting can be

some think these are not as creative and complex as a random pin/tick tack approach but I TOTALLY do not agree...may not be as flashy or fun (on the surface or to the uninitiated) but it is a much smarter way to approach "tournament" foosball because it makes use of repetition, stroke memory, strategy, and consistancy...every time you set up one of these agin another defense in another setting you are building a log of knowledge - building this log with randomness is near impossible

[pullshot]

Very good read bbtuna, obviously the game has changed since I was playing. My shot was a long pull, I practiced for hrs nonstop going around the two man rod shoved against the far wall. The only way to block it was to commit the one man too and then I'd dink a few or some off speed sliders in behind the D. It doesn't get much more simple than that. It's so simple even an old guy like me can still do it. And yeah still got a pullshot 40 yrs later...........

[alaskan thunder]

+1 BB way to kill the thread....

[PatRyan]

Actually, from my experience playing against various players from around the world, it is not the US "style" (style meaning pull-shot/rollover)of game that is why the US is so successful at the international tournaments.  The US players are successful due to the focus and professional attitude during a match.  The mental game is what separates many of the US players from the rest.  The way they have trained themselves to focus on nothing but what is in their control, during the match.  That is where the possesions, games and matches are won and lost.  There are a some foriegn players that have this focus, and most of them learned it here in the States, on the US tours.  It is not the choice of shot, choice of pass, style of offense that decides the match, it is the approach to the game, overall, and the ability to focus on nothing but the task at hand that gives many of the US players the edge.  It is the fact that many of the US players that excel at this game are table soccer ATHLETES, and not merely players, that separates them from the others.

Pat Ryan

[bbtuna]

Pat,

I totally agree and totally disagree...yes, the mental side of the sport is the difference, all things being equal, between winning and losing.  Mental toughness, playing under pressure mixed with a intellect for the game (strategy, decision making, and adjustments) is crucial and in that I agree...I agree that the US excels in this.  But...this is part of our "approach", it is part of what we have learned is needed to get the most out of our games.

However, a key phrase above was "all things being equal" - in the US, the pull and rollover make up 95% of all shots and there is no other shot that has been in the top mix for nearly 20 years.  The last other shot was Jeep's push kick.  In the early days it was 70% pulls and a few push kicks and a pull kick or two but thats it.

the reason these shots were selected was because of our committment to using what gives us the best chance of winning.  No top player like Todd, Gummy, Tom, Adrian, Spree, Billy, Terry, Ryan, Rob, etc shoot a push shot...none of them shoot a Euro pin.  All of them CAN shoot the push and every other shot and this isn't saying they don't yank something out of their bag of tricks once in a while (some more than others) but 99% of their careers in top level competition, they shoot a rollover or a pull every time.  As a matter of fact, I don't think there is an alternate shot in the top 100 players unless Chris Dube is still in the top 100.  Even if he is, that is literally 99% of the US top 100 players shoot a pull or rollover.

people mimic the top professionals in every sport, always have, always will...they mimic them because they are committed to winning and they make good decisions about what approaches, strategies, and yes "shots" should be used...Europe is converting in ALL ways

[PatRyan]

Bbtuna,

I agree with most of what you said.  But the Pullshot and the Rollover are not necessarily the best option on ALL of the tables used in international competition.  Sometimes one of them is better, some times the other, sometimes one of those other shots is better (or just as good).  Players in the US gravitated toward rollovers and pulls because the primary table played on in recent years (20 or so) was conducive to those shots.  If the tables had different play characteristics, other shots would be more widely used, not necessarily more than a pull or a rollover, but certainly more than they are used now.

Back on topic, simplifying ones game has to do more with focus and approach, that with which shot series you elect to use.  It is more about sticking with what gives a particular player the best chance to succeed on each and every possesion.  What is best suited for than particular player is based on what he/she are comfortable with, and what they are proficient in executing.  In the case of a players 3-man rod, that may or may not be a pullshot or a rollover.

Pat Ryan