Topic: European Table Clarification

[John M]

In an attempt to research info about European tables I have become confused. Can anyone help me out with some clarification on some european tables. I want to know what different european tables there are and what tables are used in what county. It also seems there are different table names for the for the same table. Below are a few that particuarly interest me.  I have heard of them really dont have any association beyond that.

I am also wondering what US pro players are competive on multi tables like Fredrico. I understand that Billy Pappas is really good on Tec Ball...is this correct? Are there others that compete at a high level on mutiple tables?

What is the name of the table used for the P4P tournament and does that type of table ever go by different names?

Leonhart
Jupiter
Tec Ball
Lemacher

[Pat]

I can help you with the tables played in Germany.  The two main table makers are Leonhart and Lehmacher.  Lehmacher also makes Tecball.  The Lehmacher used to be the P4P table and Tecball was the German ITSF table but the company shot itself in both feet.  Leonhart is now used for the ITSF and and Ulrich is used for P4P.  Ulrich is designed in Germany but constructed in China to offer a cheaper alternative to the tables manufactured in Germany.  There is also a company called Löwen which has alternatively rebranded Lehmacher and Leonhart tables.

You can see pictures of the various tables here:
http://www.kicker-sven.de/Kickertische/#37

[John M]

Very informative. Thanks Pat.

[jkhFoos]

Bonzini is made in France & played in many countries. It's the only European made table with tournaments in the states; (Southeast). There is a multitable tournament schedule on this site & for their's http://www.bonziniusa.com/,  where you can also see pics/further info. Our U.S.A. World Cup team has great multitable players because that's part of the challenge. 

[Tratrim]

Jupiter is what we play on in Belgium. And it's the king of tables for pin / open handed shot. That's probably why Collignon is so good at it :p
It has sanded glass pitch and wooden players. The control is outstanding, without being "chewy" (I lack of a better term, sorry) like the bonzini. 

Unfortunately, player down here are really conservative, and i've yet to find an other kind of table that i'd like to try. Maybe there are some german tables closer to the border, but in Brussels, Jupiter gets all the love.

For the different names, ABC and Black diamond are two other brands, but they are the exact same table (or I'm not good enough to feel the difference).

[John M]

Wow...I did not know that there were any tables that have wooden men. It sounds really fun and I cant wait to get to try out this table.  Is Jupiter also referred to as "Eurosport" table?

[FOOZUL]

All these tables mentioned are special and different in their
own way.

One table that has my attention is the lesser known table from
Brazil. They call foosball Pebolim over there.

http://www.pebolimbrasil.com.br/imagens/Naja/Profissional/Pebolim%20Naja%20PRO%20II%20DS%20-%20950.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXt9QpyRNKg

I think I'm the only one who owns a Ullrich P4P in the US. With 9/16 rods and special bushings
I was able to convert the P4P to a Naja style table for switching from German to Brazilian style
time to time.

Spanish have interesting styles tables as well (Madrid and Catalan), so do the Portuguese.

[Tratrim]

Jupiter has two line. The old one with wooden players, wich is what we see everywhere. And a newer one, the eurosoccer line, with a different pitch, handle, and plastic men.
I'd really like to try it, as I feel the belgian should evolve a little (Still no snake shot allowed in competition), but I have never seen any in a bar.
It's funny that you're surprised by the wooden men, down here, if there are in plastic, the table is considered a toy. Yeah, i know, that doesn't make any sense...

[papafoos]

The first Tornado man was wooden.

[Alan Cribbs]

Got 2 EuroSoccer coin ops and a HomeSoccer for sell if interested.
More expensive than Bonzini however.
Great tables and extremely fun to play.

[SilentSam]

Are there any tournaments still being played on Eurosoccer?

For awhile that table seemed to be destined for big things... It was ITSF certified, and a favourite amongst Europeans. It also used to be the table of choice for the Belgian EK tournaments, but I think that may have changed back to the Jupiter Goldstars.

And now to the OP:
most of the tables you listed are German. Lowen, Lehmacher P4P, Tecball, Leonhart, and Ullrich-Sport are the most common.
-Tecball and the new Leonhart ITSF models I think are the same. They have hollow rods (At least that's what I'm told) and the length of the table is shorter (to prevent balls from rolling in behind the goalie). The net is taller to allow the golaie to rotate 360 degrees due to the shortened length
-Lowen, Lehmacher P4P, and the older Leonhart models are all similar. They have the heavy solid rods, the table length is full-sized, and the goals don't extend over the table height.
-Ullrich-sport P4P is a convertible table that actually is able to change between full-length (P4P) and shortened length (Leonhart ITSF standard). It also has the best bearings (copied from Fireball I believe) and hollow rods (although I'm not 100% sure on that one).

Other European tables they have tournaments on are:
- Rosengart (Czech, ITSF recognized)
- Garlando WC (Italian made, played in a LOT of european countries)
- Roberto Sport (Italy)
- Deutscher Meister (German made, tournaments in Amsterdam)
- Topper (Netherlands, wooden men)

[Pat]

Leonhart has 2 current professional models; the ITSF table and the Soccer table.  Both have hollow rods.  The ITSF table has the goalies which stand in the goal.

The main difference between Leonhart and Techball is that the Leonhart playing surface is slower and has more grip.  The men are also shaped slightly different with the Leonhart men giving slightly better control.

The Lehmacher P4P has hollow rods and the goalies don't stand in the goal.  I believe that Lehmacher has had hollow rods since 2006.

Ulrich has hollow rods.  I don't think the length is adjustable.  I've always seen them with the long playing field and the goals are too short to accommodate a goalie standing in the goal to turn 360 deg. I'll check this next time I play on an Ulrich.  What is adjustable is the side the ball comes out after a goal.  There is a ramp which can be moved up and down so the ball is returned to the shooter or to the defender.

Tecball doesn't have bearings.  It's just a metal rod sliding through a plastic hole.  I've never taken a Leonhart apart (but will have to do so in a few day when we install the counter weighted men on our table at work) but I would guess it's a similar design.  The Ulrich rods feel very light and slippery.  In my opinion, they are almost too light.

Another difference between the tables is the grip.  Lehmacher P4P and Ulrich have an 8 sided grip.  Tecball and Leonhart have round grips that are smaller in diameter than the 8 sided grips.

[SilentSam]

Ullrich-Sport P4P DTFB mod.

Tecball doesn't have bearings.  It's just a metal rod sliding through a plastic hole

Well... that IS a bearing. It's just not an encased set of ball bearings. Tornado bearings are also the same.

[John M]

This is an amazing wealth of information. Thanks for all of the replies, I would have never been able find these answers otherwise.

Alan, As much as I would love another table, my little cottage is full with a Bonzini and a Tornado.

Tratrim: I am curious, do the wooden men break often? Do you feel that they are more durable than plastic men?

[Tratrim]

I've seen a man break in two pieces only once. But the wood chips often. It's not as bad as it sounds, but it sure isn't perfect either. That is why i would love the mentality to evolve and see more eurosoccer tables.
Jupiter is sometimes referred as the Rolls Royce of foosball. It might be true, but and old one then.

Here is Collignon playing on one recently : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YzFs9Okef0&list=UU8fHA3J_hhoKknv-aAU30MA&index=1&feature=plcp